Topic: Coils always warm

[Burnboy]

Im trying to clean up the wiring on my c50f and as I was working on it I noticed the coil was warm. (one was not this leads me to believe its dead, which is why Im only running on 2 cylinders. ) This is with the key off. My guess is that I wired the starter solenoid wrong somehow. Any suggestions?

[Gordon]

Which two cylinders aren't firing?  And do they correspond to one coil, as in 1/4 or 2/3? 

[Burnboy]

yes they correspond to the dead coil

[mystic_1]

With the key off, the coils should be completely inert.  Check for power at the coils, sounds like you've wired something incorrectly.

mystic_1

[Burnboy]

Ive narrowed it down to either the ground from the coils or the way I have my starter solenoid wired.

This is not the stock harness so Ive had to improvise a bit.

For my ground 'circuit' (black wire throughout the bike) Ive attached it to the negative of the battery. The kill switch wires off the coils (black with white stripe) Ive connected to the ground wire. Is this a no no? Do I need to properly ground it as opposed to attaching it to the negative?

As far as the starter solenoid goes....

Red wire coming from key switch goes to circuit breaker, then goes to the terminal of the solenoid that also has the connections for the power (red) wire in the harness and then straight to the battery. It seems to me that if the battery (red +) is connected to the solenoid as well as the power wire for the harness then the battery will distribute power throughout the harness whether the switch is on or not. Am I on to something?

[Fritz]

Im trying to clean up the wiring on my c50f

Are you talking about a C50 or a CB500/550F? If it's a SOHC4:

For my ground 'circuit' (black wire throughout the bike) Ive attached it to the negative of the battery. The kill switch wires off the coils (black with white stripe) Ive connected to the ground wire. Is this a no no? Do I need to properly ground it as opposed to attaching it to the negative?

Honda's color for ground is green. Black is ignition (+12V). Maybe you mixed ground and black
The kill switch's got a black and a black/white wire. The black one connects to the harness +12V line switched by the key switch. The black/white one goes to the coils. The coils are grounded by the points (blue and yellow).

Red wire coming from key switch goes to circuit breaker, then goes to the terminal of the solenoid that also has the connections for the power (red) wire in the harness and then straight to the battery. It seems to me that if the battery (red +) is connected to the solenoid as well as the power wire for the harness then the battery will distribute power throughout the harness whether the switch is on or not. Am I on to something?

The red wire connects the battery, solenoid, rectifier (all three unfused) and the key switch (fused), nothing else.

The key switch has three +12V lines going into the harness:
- brown: taillight, fused
- brown/white: instrument lights (unfused), also connects to brown/red (fused) to headlight switch
- black: everything else

Since your harness is different, you should take great care, not to confuse the unswitched +12V part with the switched one and your black ground wires with the honda +12V ones.

[HondaMan]

Ive narrowed it down to either the ground from the coils or the way I have my starter solenoid wired.

This is not the stock harness so Ive had to improvise a bit.

For my ground 'circuit' (black wire throughout the bike) Ive attached it to the negative of the battery. The kill switch wires off the coils (black with white stripe) Ive connected to the ground wire. Is this a no no? Do I need to properly ground it as opposed to attaching it to the negative?

As far as the starter solenoid goes....

Red wire coming from key switch goes to circuit breaker, then goes to the terminal of the solenoid that also has the connections for the power (red) wire in the harness and then straight to the battery. It seems to me that if the battery (red +) is connected to the solenoid as well as the power wire for the harness then the battery will distribute power throughout the harness whether the switch is on or not. Am I on to something?

Burn:
First:
The Black/White of the coils are their +12 volt feed point. This is where you should apply power when you want them "ON". They have a BLUE wire (for 1-4 cylinders) and a YELLOW (for 2-3 cylinders), which go directly to the points. Ground is not involved at the coils: the points do the grounding when they are closed. The metal bracket of the coils should be connected to a metal frame spot, bare. This is for suppression reasons (for radios in cars nearby), but won't stop the coils from working.

Next: the RED wire circuit you're describing sounds fine. Honda has long used the (+) terminal of the START solenoid as a "distribution point" for the battery wire, so it's a clean installation with just one wire to the battery (+) terminal. The other big terminal on the START solenoid goes directly to the starter.

One coil might be warm if somehow you have connected +12 volts to it with your improvised wiring. Open the points (like with a business card between the contacts) and see if it cools off: if so, it has power to it from somewhere. Check the rest of your wiring against Fritz's color codes: Black has always been Honda's power circuit from the keyswitch, and Green has always been their Ground.

[Bodi]

I recommend disconnecting the battery and having a good long look at what you've done. You could easily have a lot of melted wires or a fire if you continue, I think you're lucky you haven't so far. I understand you have a modified harness but it's clear you have some serious miswiring going on.
Honda uses a consistent color code throughout the bike models in the 70's. Red is unswitched battery "+" power, the big red wire to the solenoid and the  "small" red wire with an extra red sleeve at the battery or solenoid are unfused battery "+" power. A red wire goes to the ignition key main switch which sends switched +12V power using black wire. All black wires in the harness should be +12V when the ignition switch is ON. The kill switch is fed with a black wire, the coil power switched by the kill switch is black with a white stripe (I think).
Green is always frame, engine, and battery "-".
The other various circuits have other colors, almost always the same color for a given circuit regardless of model.

[Burnboy]

According to the wiring diagrams I'm looking at and what you all have told me is this what I should do:

-Black and white ultimately connects to black through the kill switch, so If I am running no kill switch it is ok to tie it into the black and ultimately nothing? It just runs throughout the bike.
-The negative terminal only gets a connection the the frame ground, correct?
-The ignition switch has black which is part of the black circuit runs throughout the bike, connects to the stop switches and regulator,(no turn signals here) and starter.
---Red wire, fused to solenoid
---Brown wire goes to running light element of tail light
---Brown and white wire, connects to tach and speedo lights.

When key is in #1 position everything works and bike can start, #2 position bike doesn't start but tail light is lit?

[Fritz]

-Black and white ultimately connects to black through the kill switch, so If I am running no kill switch it is ok to tie it into the black and ultimately nothing? It just runs throughout the bike.

Connecting the coils directly to the +12V wire that is switched by the key would be all right. With an original harness that would be black.

In a post above you said:

For my ground 'circuit' (black wire throughout the bike) Ive attached it to the negative of the battery.

Honda wired the negative pole of the battery directly to the frame and nothing else. There are green wires that run everywhere through the harness that are connected to the frame elsewhere. So your black wire cannot be used to feed the coils unless you make it the +12V "ignition" line.

-The negative terminal only gets a connection the the frame ground, correct?

If you refer to the battery's negative termial: Yes.

-The ignition switch has black which is part of the black circuit runs throughout the bike, connects to the stop switches and regulator,(no turn signals here) and starter.

Right

---Red wire, fused to solenoid
---Brown wire goes to running light element of tail light
---Brown and white wire, connects to tach and speedo lights.

All right

When key is in #1 position everything works and bike can start, #2 position bike doesn't start but tail light is lit?

That also correct. The #2 position if for tail light (parking light) only.

[Burnboy]

danke fritz! I'll give it a try