Topic: CL350 Help

[speedy_the_drummer]

1973 CL350
I just finished re-gasketing the top end, new points, new filters, relapped the valves, and generally tuned up the bike.

I got it running and it idled good around 1200 rpms. Took it out and it road fine for a mile or two and then it would want to die once i came to a stop. I'd restart it and it would idle fine at 1200. Then I would try to take off and it would feel as if I was trying to take off in 3rd gear and it would putt and sometimes backfire. Once I was about to 2000ish rpms, it would 'grab' and finally take off. Once it was around 2000-3000 it would ride a little better but it would still jerk a little and putt some. Once I hit 3rd gear, around 3500+, it would be back to 'normal'.

I know the clutch is over adjusted and the throttle is under adjusted, so I need to fix those. Would that cause this?

I also went with the new foam cylinder looking filters to replace my dirty stock filters. Would they affect anything in that way?


thanks

[Brown Bomber]

Just subscribing here, my 500T is behaving much the same way. I believe it's in the carbs, possibly air getting in somewhere.

[seaweb11]

Did you replace the air filters?

[speedy_the_drummer]

I also went with the new foam cylinder looking filters to replace my dirty stock filters. Would they affect anything in that way?

air filters*

[Hasenkopf]

sounds like a carb problem...I used foamies on my cl and it ran much better, but check the points again too.

[seaweb11]

I also went with the new foam cylinder looking filters to replace my dirty stock filters. Would they affect anything in that way?

air filters*

yes, maybe, perhaps, sometimes, usually.

[speedy_the_drummer]

I checked the points with a light 3 times.

Could the filters need more/less oil?

[seaweb11]

You can't adjust carbs by adding oil to the pods   The oil on them is to make dirt/dust stick to them.

Based on what you seem to acknowledge as experience with your bike so far, I would recommend you drop the coin on 2 new stock filters.
Failing that, get used to re-reing your carbs a lot as you figure out which jets you need to re-tune the bike for what you have done.

 Perhaps some one with a CL with pods will find your thread, my CL had the same problems you described at the get go, new stock filters, and new plugs and issue went away

[speedy_the_drummer]

I've never once seen new CL filters. Where would I find those?

And I've been told these are great filters by numerous sources. They even come with adapters to keep the side-covers on.

And having not enough/too much oil can make the bike run lean or rich.

I'm running these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CB350-CL350-CB450-CL450-CB500-TWINS-UNI-AIR-FILTERS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d28df3057QQitemZ400117674071QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[MickeyX]

the stock filters are available through Honda. hondapartsnation.com has some of the best prices. We changed our filters and got immediate results, like seaweb. 

you can try PM'ing paulages or oldscrambler for more info on the kind you put on. They may have some direct experience or know someone who's used them.

The other thing is... you set/checked everything in a certain order right, adjusting the throttle cables last?

[speedy_the_drummer]

What is the certain order?

[seaweb11]

Do you have a manual?     No.     Then hit Ebay and get one.

.. and no pouring oil on your pods will not really change from rich to lean .
Have you read any threads on restoring a CL350 so you could learn through others mistakes and successes?

There are a few here on the forum that might make it easier.  Hint - click below on my CL build or others. MickeyX "above" also has a CL on her signature.

I have tried to help you and wish you the best with your bike.

[speedy_the_drummer]

I have 3 manuals.        yes.

It makes no sense since i've only heard good things about these filters. And the directions even say the oil will effect the lean/richness of the bike.

I'm not dropping $50+ on airfilters. I don't have the money. So these will have to work. Everyone has also said you don't need to re-jet.

There has to be something else causing it.

[seaweb11]

Everyone has also said you don't need to re-jet.

Who is everyone?

[speedy_the_drummer]

3 local vintage shops and a local vintage junkyard.

[Frankenkit]

I dunno, I almost want to say it sounds like an air or idle circuit issue or something.... because it re-starts fine but as soon as you get to that mid-range 2-3k (and stopping) it does weird stuff. 

Are both plugs evenly colored?  Carbs cleaned really, really thoroughly? any holes in the diaphragms? (not that the symptom really reminds me of that...)

The "Runs great until it doesn't" part sounds like a fuel delivery issue almost... check to make sure your cap is breathing/venting well first of all, and ditch your inline fuel filters if you have any- the things are crap.

[Brown Bomber]

Hows the color of the spark plugs?

[MickeyX]

Hmmm, 3 manuals and 4 shops it still isn't running right, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm no expert by any means.

I just know that until all of that stuff is checked and verified "good", you are shooting in the dark. We're no experts and have zero time lately and since this is our 1st foray into the 350 twins, we went to Paulages on it. He got it sorted, explained it all to us on how/what order to do it and I rode it home today. It purred like a kitten. It ran 1/2 decent before but wasn't quite right. It would do what yours is doing. It can be a few things but you need to set things up in the correct order or you will be chasing your tail. Since you haven't said that you've actually adjusted the bike the way it's supposed to be, just did a "general tune", I would say, go back and follow the manual and the sequence the way it needs to be. 

You've already made a change outside of spec by adding pods to it without verifying that everything was okay to begin with. Since these carbs are pretty finicky and don't tend to play very nice, I just don't know what to think about putting pods on. I've seen it done but usually with jet or whole carb changes. So since you feel that putting more or less oil on makes a difference, how do people figure out how much to put on? I've never had them so I have absolutely no idea how to figure out stuff like that. I've thought about doing it to one of our CL350's but I've just decided to stick with stock airboxes.

If you think around $50 is expensive for airboxes on these, everyone else is over $10/airbox more. Sorry, I was trying to save you some $$ to begin with.  

Oh, and clean your carbs again. and again. and again. 4th time for us was the charm and 2 of those was in an ultrasonic cleaner. Stubborn suckers. 

[speedy_the_drummer]

The bike is at my brothers garage. I'm sure we could have worked it out but it was late by that time. So I'll go back probably tuesday to fix it.

I'm just trying to get some ideas of what to check before I go back over there.

I've read all the manuals, set everything to spec, checked and double checked.

What I may do it throw the old filters on, ride around, then post on here if it gets better or stays the same.

I'll also check the plugs.

I do have fuel filters which I will remove once I finish resealing my tank in about a week or two.

As for the carbs, they are spotless. They ran fine before I tore into the engine. All I did was reset the floats since they were off a little.

What is a good idle rpm? the book says around 1200, but man it sounds like its not quite enough.

[Frankenkit]

my bike seems to like 1500 but I'm not sure it's really at 100%.  1100 is specified for my CB650 and 1400 "sounds" much better... so *shrug* I guess that's somewhat arbitrary.

[seaweb11]

Throwing the "old filters" on will not really give you any more of a heads up than you have now.

These bikes are very fussy when it comes to air to carb.   Sorry, it is what it is.

[Frankenkit]

oh, hell, Seaweb, they're fussy with everything from the airbox to the carb.  Paul had to clean my left carb four times with the ultrasonic cleaner and everything to get it to work right.  How THAT works is WAY beyond me.

[speedy_the_drummer]

Throwing the "old filters" on will not really give you any more of a heads up than you have now.


It ran fine with the old filters 3 weeks ago. The filters were the only thing changed aside from the points.

[MickeyX]

Oh, I thought all total it was 4. So, add Kit's twice cleaning to that #.  

yeah, the idle was a bit low when I rode it home as it really got good and warm. I keep the throttle at 1200-1500 and it was happy. I bumped up both sides equally and she stays running now and happy at about 1300. I could go to 1100 or 1200 but it just sounds on the shaky side there.

Whut seaweb sez... he knows pretty well how to take one of these bikes down to every little part and get it back together and running great. I would advise you to check out his build thread for his wife's 350. It's a beaut.  

just saw your post... what points did you go with? I've been reading some posts about people having a rough time with some of the points out there on feebay these days. They just aren't as good. I haven't read where anyone figured out what exactly wasn't right though.

before the engine teardown, did you just start it up and run it a bit around or really get it out there and ride the piss out of it. We thought ours ran great until we really tried to "ride" it.   blech. that was underwhelming.

[Frankenkit]

hmmmm....

what type/brand filters? foam Unis?  This is my take on the oil/filter thing (but since I have the stock box, take it for the mere speculation it's worth...)

Filters = higher flow = leaner burning carbs.  VERY heavily oiled filters will part with a small amount of the oil as the air rushes into the carb.  This will make you burn rich(er) but shouldn't be mistaken for fixing the pre-existing lean problem.

As the filters dry out, you'll go leaner again, unless you catch a lot of dirt in the oiled foam... which would make/keep you richer.

Might be safer (and maybe what they suggest generally?) to see how you burn with the foam unoiled, then lightly oil them, enough to clean the air, but not enough to burn rich and foul, know what I mean?  Also make sure your filters fit real tight on those carbs because Emgo filters have a LOT of slop in the fit and will intermittently suck air in through the sides.

[speedy_the_drummer]

before the engine teardown, did you just start it up and run it a bit around or really get it out there and ride the piss out of it. We thought ours ran great until we really tried to "ride" it.

I rode it for a year and a half. One of the engine gaskets started leaking oil, so I had to replace them. So when I did that, I also did the points and the filters.

[drewb350cl]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not. If I am repeating stuff, sorry.

I just went through the same thing and just took it to my shop. New spark plugs and that was it. They adjusted the air screws a little but they said it wasn't getting the spark it needed.

Hope this helps. I have a 1972 CL350.

Have a great day,
Rob

[speedy_the_drummer]

Well I went over today and started it. Same thing. So I pulled a plug, it was pretty black and nasty, but it was just about as bad as before I did all this. So I went to put it back on and I had to pull the points cover off. Out fell the two screws that hold the housing on. Screwed them back in tightly and rode the bike for 30 min with no problems! I guess it was just grounding the whole thing out.

But here's two new things...

Where my plug wire hits the coil, the rubber is split and i can see the wire. The wire is fine, but I want to cover it up. I was told electrical tape until I get a new one. Which leads me to asking where I can get new coils for the bike/what new coils are good? I don't really want to just get a used set of feebay.

My exhaust air from cyl. 2 is cold. Well not cold, just room temp. The other one is warm. What does this mean?

thanks!

[Frankenkit]

it means you're probably only firing intermittently on 2...  How hot is the header on 2?  note: lick your fingers REALLY wet before tapping or you will burn the hell out of your fingers (spoken from shamed experience )