Topic: The first two ship!!!

[KeithTurk]

Why do we need it?..... ahhh HELLO..... So we can shoot them in the Face!!!

if you don't get that....  I can't help you.... ( but since your reading this in English I guess you can thank the military just a little bit eh?? )

Having flown both Super high tech and super low tech attack Helicopters....  I can tell you honestly in combat I'd rather have all the gadgets and goodies....  for Fun....  Strap a Cobra to my back any day....they simply rock...

Keith Turk

[Frankenkit]

I guess what you're questioning then is the effectiveness of the technology (we're not gonna get to understand it all due to security issues) and the necessity of high tech weaponry and/or a strong defense?  If we lay down our weapons and become weak, we'll be destroyed - history teaches us that.  Not to worry though, we're well on our way to that with us strengthening our enemies and weakening our country.

Our own sec. of defense wants to cut spending.  His recent paraphrase:  Do we really need more navy ships than the 15 second largest navies in the world combined - 11 of which are allies?'
Honestly, there's 'weakening' and then there's regular old common sense.

depends on whether or not you want to...
Take Over The World!!!


Well, that and if you can talk the general public into funding your desire for newer and better toys with worn-out catchphrases and scare tactics, why not?

but since your reading this in English I guess you can thank the military just a little bit eh??

How many wars/conflicts can this possibly be true for?  Let's see.  The war in Iraq/Afghanistan/"operation enduring freedom" would have a vanishingly small possibility of, all, what, 307 million of us speaking Arabic? Really?  Same with Operation Allied Forces (1999) Operation Infinite Reach (1998), Operation Desert Fox (Iraq) (also '98) Wait, didn't our "war on terror" start in 2001? Wow, we've been in the middle east a long time before and since then! I'm skipping some, but there was operation quick response/operation assured response in Liberia and CAR in '96, Deliberate Force in Bosnia in '95... Any of these save our right to speak English in America? Nope, not yet... Somalia, Kuwait... no, no, Iraq again with Desert Shield in 91... wow, 10 years before the War on Terror, and almost 20 years ago and STILL didn't save the Americans from the horrors of speaking Arabic!

Is it obvious how much I hate that stupid saying pulled from an equally stupid bumper sticker?  The only times the military has possibly saved us from speaking anything other than English in any remote way was WWII, a threat unseen before or since.  So if you're going to find a reason for us all to thank the military "just a little bit" find a real one.

There will never come a day when the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy new bombers.

[wardenerd]

sorry but it looks like more toys for our military.  Who are we going to fight with these things that the two generations old fighters ncould not as easily dispatch.  We spend more than the next 12 countries combined on defense and most of them are our allies. It makes little sense to me.  We are no safer from the muslim radicals with or without this weapon.

[KeithTurk]

Kit I've read your stuff.... loved your 650 project....

at least in those posts when you waded into the unknown,  you knew you didn't have a clue...

[Gonzowerke]

the first picture makes it look quite fake, and then the countries flags next to the motor inlet look a bit odd.  also, whats up with that turquoise/greenish shape under the pilot on AF-01??

That's just a project logo. Notice all the country flags on there as well? That kind of stuff is put on there for demonstrations, like at airshows and such. If AF-01 ever sees combat, rest assured that won't be there.

[Frankenkit]

opinions are like #$%*s, man. Everyone's got one and they all stink.

[seaweb11]

Mine smells of light fluffy rose buds

really, smell my finger

[MickeyX]

Hmmmm, Kit hit a little close to home for someone, didn't she? 

I guess when someone says they like that kind of firepower "for Fun", I wonder if that's the kind of person who should have that kind of firepower. 

[GammaFlat]

depends on whether or not you want to...
Take Over The World!!!

That's never been our mission... but it has been and is for others. 

Well, that and if you can talk the general public into funding your desire for newer and better toys with worn-out catchphrases and scare tactics, why not?

but since your reading this in English I guess you can thank the military just a little bit eh??

How many wars/conflicts can this possibly be true for?  Let's see.  The war in Iraq/Afghanistan/"operation enduring freedom" would have a vanishingly small possibility of, all, what, 307 million of us speaking Arabic? Really?  Same with Operation Allied Forces (1999) Operation Infinite Reach (1998), Operation Desert Fox (Iraq) (also '98) Wait, didn't our "war on terror" start in 2001? Wow, we've been in the middle east a long time before and since then! I'm skipping some, but there was operation quick response/operation assured response in Liberia and CAR in '96, Deliberate Force in Bosnia in '95... Any of these save our right to speak English in America? Nope, not yet... Somalia, Kuwait... no, no, Iraq again with Desert Shield in 91... wow, 10 years before the War on Terror, and almost 20 years ago and STILL didn't save the Americans from the horrors of speaking Arabic!

Is it obvious how much I hate that stupid saying pulled from an equally stupid bumper sticker?  The only times the military has possibly saved us from speaking anything other than English in any remote way was WWII, a threat unseen before or since.  So if you're going to find a reason for us all to thank the military "just a little bit" find a real one.

There will never come a day when the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy new bombers.

It would have been optimistic to think we would have been speaking German (or Arabic).. we probably wouldn't exist, nor would freedom.  We stopped Hitler and he still took out over 20 million people.  It was in Hitler's plans to exterminate ALL of his adversaries in the world... possibly enslaving only those he deemed of the most value (probably technology folks).  Japan was probably not safe either, ask Russia about treaties with Hitler.  Are any of our current day threats somehow less or more evil than Hitler?  Unclear.  What is clear is that there are people with bad intentions that are very well financed that want to see us and our lifestyle dead (no, I don't think they want us "speaking Arabic"... dead is better). 

I do think we need to thank our military for their service.  I think we should go out of our way to do so. 

When we start to think we are spending too much to defend ourselves, consider this: It does not take much effort to cause an incredible amount of destruction as we found out on 9/11 (it would be sophomoric and unproductive to say "ah... libs would accuse GW of blowing up twin towers"). 

How many well-funded people with good skills (the 9/11 terrorists were not well trained specialists) do you think it would take to reduce any country in the world into a chaotic mess and civil war.  The number is ridiculously low... and we (the US) are more vulnerable than most other countries because of our freedoms.  If you meaningfully interrupt public services and commerce (very easy to do), kill a bunch of people and create fear and terror, you have an absolute mess.  Now let's think about who and how well funded are those on our "not so friendly" list.  Does anyone believe for a second that there are not well financed efforts to destroy America?  And maybe if we're not so mean in the world, they'll stop trying to destroy us?  Churchill: "the appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile, hoping it will eat him last". 

Do the "toys" at times seem like over-kill?  Maybe.  When we're in a position to hunt down and make people pay for "trouble" they've caused, we are building disincentives for people to organize efforts against us.  Some in this country are thinking we're just causing our own trouble and we spend so much more than everyone else on military that we can turn most of that spending off.  We probably do cause some of our own problems but we're going to make mistakes and even if we don't, lots of folks will believe we do no matter what.  In terms of spending..  I'm happy we're willing to defend this great country for which many very brave people have died to defend in the name of freedom. 

I choose not to apologize for our existence. 

[gregimotis]

Nice one Mickey.


Again let me point out:  The Sec of defense doesn't want it.  The very military your talking about WANTS to cut it's own budget.
Alright, it's badass and it looks cool and I like winning wars better than losing them, but come along too reality road already:  The military doesn't want any more stuff (but they keep getting it) - they want to close a bunch of bases (but they can't).

Congressman and senators are taking donations from Lock-Boeing-GE, and securing jobs for their reelection campaign constituents at the expense of the US military and the things they really need (like VA hospitals and s**t)



But some folks don't give a darn about that boring news reading and crud like that.  What they want are bigger guns because obviously they are awesome and look really good next to American flags and stuff.




(this post in no way directed at the OP who's pictures are great)

[BeSeeingYou]

Those planes are awesome.

Just read a news article about how we are now spending 6.7 billion a month in Afghanistan.  Now this expensive boondoggle to fight guys in caves.  It seems more likely developed to fight a war of the past with another superpower that ain't there.

what are you taking issue with?...  the expenditure or strength of military?  ah, never mind, this isn't a political thread.  

Wasteful military spending, that seems obvious.  About 1 trillion a year it accounts for about 50% or more  of all military spending worldwide.  What is the mission of this plane and what makes it so necessary?  

I guess what you're questioning then is the effectiveness of the technology (we're not gonna get to understand it all due to security issues) and the necessity of high tech weaponry and/or a strong defense?  If we lay down our weapons and become weak, we'll be destroyed - history teaches us that.  Not to worry though, we're well on our way to that with us strengthening our enemies and weakening our country.

Yeah, that is my point.  This does not seem like an appropriate technology to fight the type of wars/conflicts we will see in the future. This aircraft would have been totally worthless on 9/11 and would not be anymore effective than existing aircraft in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or WMD in the hands of extremist groups.  It's supposed to be an air superiority aircraft against whom?  The Iranians have little airforce to speak of.  China, Russia, I hardly think a war will be possible with the integration of the world economy it would be economic suicide for both sides and maybe impossible given the rising corporate control of governments and intertwining economic interests. Maybe one good benefit of globalization.  
     We already have that superiority for the foreseeable future with existing planes that are due to serve into 2025 and beyond. At 140 million a piece it is just an overpriced jobs program.  If the recent past is any indicator of the future any conflicts will be larger countries beating their chests by picking on smaller third world counties who can't defend themselves so they can get their populations all whooped up to support more military spending for the economic and/or political benefit of the ruling class.
    Using a 100-200 million dollar plane to drop a million dollar bomb on some guy in a cave or mud hut, and often the wrong hut, may provide neat videos but it is hardly an effective use of our tax dollars.
    The rest of your statement about laying down and becoming weak is really just a strawman and bears on nothing I said.  It's all about wisely spending our limited resources on effective and appropriate technology to face the likely threats.  With all this fabulously expensive technology here we are still in Afghanistan 9 years later no closer to winning a fight with several thousand guys hiding in caves.  In Iraq it was additional boots on the ground and co-opting and convincing the Sunni opposition to turn against Al Qaeda that turned the tide not B-2 bombers.  Interesting in that this is another overpriced system in search of a mission since it's original does not exist any longer if it ever really did.
    One sure fire way to become weak is to hollow out and bankrupt your economy by out of control, inappropriate, and reckless military spending.

[flybox1]

personally, i think they'd look better in Flake Sunrise Orange or Candy Ruby Red.   

lies!
I'm thinking Candy Bacchus Olive.

c'mon Kit, we all know CBO is the fastest color. 
No one wants to be SEEN (riding) flying sorties in that color 

...note my sleeper white over CBO 350F   

[GammaFlat]

   One sure fire way to become weak is to hollow out and bankrupt your economy by out of control, inappropriate, and reckless military spending.

I'm in full agreement... just take out the word military.  Our political leaders (past and mostly present) see it differently though. 

[Duke McDukiedook]

The military-industrial-congressional complex empire demands to be fed until it kills this country.

It will hear nothing else, Rome be damned.

[syth82]

YES! Another Political thread!!!!!!!!!!! WOOO!!!!!!

[Frankenkit]

[Don R]

 It's better to have the best equipment available than trade our soldiers lives fighting with inferior equipment. May we never be forced into battle again unprepared.
 That said, many wars should not have been fought current ones included.