Topic: A few rookie questions

[ForLackOfBetterWords]

I need help with a question or two that arose out of changing my rear tube but since this is my first post I'll give ya'll a little background first.

I'm the both of my granddads sold used cars.  On my mom's side of the family my granddad and aunt raced a busch series car in the eighties.  Petrol was breed into my blood.  The trouble is neither of my granddads taught my parents a damn thing about taking care of motors and in turn I didn't get the mechanical upbringing I so dearly needed.  I had to wing it and absorb as much info as I could from few mentors I crossed paths with.

Last month while lurking on the craigslist I found a 77 CB550F.  Not so long story but I'll spare you the details and the bike is now sitting in my garage.  Taken it out for a few miles on the country roads where I live and just completed my MC DL and I'm ready to start stretching my legs.  The trouble is that my back tire went flat.  Got a new tube and a Clymer pulled her up on the center stand.

Now onto my first question.  After getting the back wheel off the ground I noticed there was some play in the back wheel (See Video).

Should I have that much play side to side and front to back?  I looked at the Clymer and I pretty sure I have all the washers and spacers.  Any input?  I'm all ears.

I'll list pictures as soon as she's back together.

[asom]

I'm no expert by any means, but I know my bike doesn't do that.  I post this more as a bump up then an answer.  Seems unsafe.  Looks pretty scary to me though.  Hopefully one of the experts on here will chime in.

[Simon]

Looks like you did not tighten the wheel nut.

Simon

[Johnie]

Man...that video says it all. You have a loose axle bolt and the 10mm bolts used to tighten up that chain are loose too. Scarey if you drove it like that. If you have an owners manual for that bike it tells in there how to tighten up that chain, but do not drive it that way. To tighten the chain you use those 2 10mm bolts on both sides of the axle there. You will see some notches on the frame there which will help you to keep the axel straight to the frame. I believe the chain slack in the middle of the lower chain area in the center should be about 3/4 inch. Once you have that down you tighten those 2 10mm bolts and there should be some lock nuts on there like in my pic. Once that is done you have to tighten up that axle nut good and tight and put in the cotter pin. There is a torque setting for the axle nut but I just get mine nice and tight since my OEM exhaust prevent me from being able to use my torque wrench. Click the pic to enlarge...

[PJ]

You see that big freeking bolt that goes through the center of the wheel? You need to tighten that!

[Ved]

I second what simon said. Looks like you need tighten down the wheel nut. I can see from your video that the nut is sliding back and fourth in the slots on the swing arm.



*Edit* oops, Johnie beat me too it  

[PJ]

Yes, do not over tighten the chain. It should have some up and down play with you sitting on the seat.

[seaweb11]

Further photo help

A=tighten chain
Then B tighten up axle bolt.

[xenoscr]

Also, given that the axle and adjustment bolts where so out of whack, you may want to check to see if the chain has worn unevenly. I'm thinking the maintenance on this thing wasn't top priority if you bought it like this. Normally the chain will stretch unevenly if you have a tight link but in this case I'd check anyway if I where you. Once you get the chain adjusted so there's about 3/4 inch play in it, rotate the tire so that the chain goes all the way around once. If you notice a spot where the chain is too tight or too loose the chain is worn unevenly and should be replaced.

XeNoSCR

Edit: I also don't see a cotter pin in your axle. There should be a pin that prevents that castle nut from turning loose. If you don't have one, pick one up.

[xenoscr]

As a follow-up to myself on this one and from my own folly when I started out not too long ago.... go over that bike with a torque wrench and make sure things are cinched down and adjusted properly before you ride it. There where things that I took for granted that I assumed any PO would have taken care of that nearly made me crap myself when I found out how close to disaster I was.... If this is how it was sold to you I would not trust anything else until I had checked it. You're on a fairly heavy machine going at high rates of speed, if the wrong thing fails it could spell bad things for you.

XeNoSCR

Edit: Just reread and saw the part about changing a flat. I would still still check things over. Otherwise, you're putting your own safety in the PO's hands. I made that mistake and boy was I surprised when I started overhauling things.

[ForLackOfBetterWords]

Thanks for all the responses!!!  Ignorance bliss but I knew enough for that scared me a little.  The dude I bought the bike from had four other bikes and I'm guessing this one was not at the top of his list.  I knew the missing cotter pin was the first sign of possible trouble.

Just got back from the parts for with a new tube.  Not sure if I'll get it all done today but once I have it all back together I'll post an updated video of the improvements.

In the Clymer they illustrate how to build a alignment jig with a seven foot long straight edge.  If I still worked at a cabinet shop I'd be able to get on rigged up no problem.  Anybody got any suggestions on what to build one with and where to procure the materials?  Does anyone go that far to get perfect alignment?

One last question in this reply.  Going to replace my plugs but I don't have a plug socket that fits the plugs (18mm?).  What are ya'll using pull plugs?

Again, thanks for the help!

[seaweb11]

Does anyone go that far to get perfect alignment?

NO

The middle two require a honda specific socket. Go on ebay and by a set of stock tools they will come in handy.

[xenoscr]

No on the jig and +1 for the plug tool, it's a must. Unless you can find some extremely thin walled sockets that fit the center plug wells.

XeNoSCR

[asom]

I got a 18mm thin walled plug socket at cycle gear for next to nothing.  worked on my78 cb750

[cameron]

I got my 18mm at Sears.

[Stev-o]

The 18mm spark plug socket MUST be thin walled.

[ForLackOfBetterWords]

I pinched a second tube but I must say I didn't pinch it as bad as the first one.  After pulling out the second new ruined tube I wussed out and and took the wheel to the shop where I bought the tubes.  They installed a new tube and balanced the wheel for less than the combined price of the two tubes I ruined myself.  Lesson learned.  How many of ya'll change your own tubes and if you do what's you success rate?


While I was at the parts store I the plug wrench I need.  I'll get go back and pick it up after successfully getting my back tire sorted out.  Which brings me to my next question.

How tightly does/should the axle squeeze the ends of the swing arm together?  Got the back wheel assembly back on the bike but the castle nut doesn't want to tighten up enough to keep the axle locked in place front to back.  Below are two pictures I took before doing anything to the back wheel.





There anything I'm missing or have in the wrong place?  Any and all help is greatly appreciated!!

[madmtnmotors]

The axle bolt/castle nut should lock down the rear wheel assembly. There could be several issues:

1) Threads stripped out of castle nut.
2) Axle bolt threads stripped.
3) Threads partially stripped from BOTH axle bolt/castle nut.
4) Missing spacer (there is a spacer behind the brake assembly that rides on the inner wheel bearing on my CB750K).
5) Wrong swingarm.
6) Wrong bolt.

Whatever is wrong, if the wheel assembly does not lock down tight, DO NOT RIDE. Something is definitely amiss.

[Stev-o]

I would tear it down, inspect all parts and compare it to a parts fiche to make sure no parts are missing.

[ForLackOfBetterWords]

The bike isn't going anywhere until I get it sorted out.  I'm kinda bummed the dude I bought the bike from let me have my brother ride it the twenty plus highway miles home.  Now I know better, I'll have a truck to pickup the next bike that comes my way.

I didn't pull the wheel apart.  I studied the Clymer schematics (not sure if that's the right term) and the schematics found on the Babbitts website and it I'm pretty sure everything is there.

I'm starting to think my issue is with the washer on the axle between the right chain adjuster and the castle nut.  Here are a few pictures I hope helps my case.



The washer is only large enough to fit around the threaded part of the axle and has too small of an opening to slide all the way onto the full width of the axle.  It's sitting on that shoulder and will not go any farther.



Once the washer seats on the shoulder of the axle I can only get the castle nut on so far.  This is how many threads were showing on the end of the axle before I did anything.  If I put the castle nut on the axle minus the washer in question I can get the axle a lot tighter but not completely LOCKED IN.

Here's my purposed fix........
Replace the old washer with a new one with an opening wide enough to fit over the shoulder and on to the full width of the axle.  If that washer wasn't hanging up on the shoulder on the axle I could tighten up the castle nut enough to lock the rear axle in place once the chain is adjusted.

What's everyone think?

[Simon]

I'm not sure, but, on my 400f the castle nut is on the left side. Maybe your axle is in the wrong way? A service manual would be a great investment.

S.

[ForLackOfBetterWords]

Is there a better service manual than the Clymer series?  I know I have had both the Robert Bentley and the Hanes manual for my Scirocco and the Bentley is hands down better than the Hanes.

Should I have a washer between the head of the bolt (which is the axle) and the chain adjuster on the lefthand side of my bike?

[cameron]

On the 550F it is on the right side.

I have a 76 550f.. I will go take some pics and see if I can see any differences.

[cameron]

Ok.. I think I have it figured out.

The only thing I can think could be wrong is this:
You have the wrong Spacer
The thing in between the brake and the swingarm.
Part #2 in this diagram:
http://www.hondaparts-direct.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=123140&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1976&fveh=2943
My caveat: I have  a 1976. I couldn't find if they use the same thing or not... but some PO could have slipped one off a 400 or something, you know?

Here is a pic of my stuff... you can see the spacer on mine looks bigger.. and it would work, physics, wise, to explain your problem.


And the other side, for good measure.


Hope that helps. Drop a couple big washers on the SPACER side, and you should be able to get her on the road!.

[cameron]

To add support to my theory

HEre is the diagram for YOUR bike:
http://www.hondaparts-direct.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=123184&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1977&fveh=2944

Notice how the spacer has a flange on both sides?
It might be wrong in the diagram.. but it doesn't match.