Topic: Kinda (but not really) my 2nd time - '73 CB500 Project: Sally

[Lavis500]

Hi everybody! Allow me to introduce myself, as this is my first post.  My name is Tim, and I'm relatively new to your forum.  I am in the U.S. Army, fixing Blackhawk helicopters, and I'm currently deployed to Iraq (though I'll be home in 2 weeks).  Before I joined the Army I had a '72 CB500 that I had neither the time or money to finish, nor the guts to tear apart for fear of forgetting how to put it back together.  You can see here that she was a beat up old gal who needed a lot of loving: http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee291/Lavis325CL/1972%20Honda%20CB500/  She was my first project, and I wish I hadn't sold her because now I know she wasn't as far from done as I had thought since I had her running.  Alas, shoulda-woulda-coulda.

Anyways, onto present day:  about 2 months ago I found a nice '73 CB500 on ebay, and the guy happened to be driving towards my home town for a flea market.  I picked up Sally for $600 and free delivery!  The history on the bike is incomplete:  the speedo says 50k some miles while the owner claims actual mileage closer to 23k.  The speeo doesn't look original to me - it looks like one off of a 550 of a 500T.  That also turned my eye towards the headlight ears and turn signals, which seemed different to me.  The only ones I had seen before were the style where the signal stem screwed into the end of the ear to secure the headlight bucket.  I preferred those, so I'll be swapping them out.  The bike came from the man's son who bought it off of a junk car dealer/friend of theirs.  He had the bike running in less then an hour in 2003, rode it all summer, then she sat in Minnesota until I bought her.  Here is how she looks now (pics thanks to my parents):  http://picasaweb.google.com/TimValis/20100220TimSPhotosOfCB500#   http://picasaweb.google.com/TimValis/20100220KrisPhotosOfCB500#

There's a lot of rust on this old gal, and I know I'll be replacing a lot of hardware.  I plan on tearing the whole bike down to the frame and just doing a full resto from the ground up.  Here is a list of things I plan to do to her:


-See if engine runs (I already know that this will require replacement of the coils)
     if so:  change oil and run with 75% oil, 25% diesel in the crank case as well as adding seafoam to the gas to clean engine, flush and fill with oil again
-Clean the engine, considering paint/lacquer?
-Open engine, clean gently
-Strip bike down to bare frame
-Coat with acetone/whatever chemical necessary to begin removing factory paint, then media blast to finish.
-Paint frame, swing arm, and triple tree clamp.  Considering either Eastwood gloss black chassis paint or duplicolor engine paint gloss black
-Replace rear shocks
-Possibly replace front forks?
-Flush front forks
-Replace all 4 turn signals and headlight ears
-Clean all (non engine) hardware, replace as necessary
-Replace all engine hardware
-Clean engine, exhaust, and all chrome
-Possibly clear coat for chrome such as wheels or exhaust?
-Possibly drop in 650 cam?
-Rebuild and buff carbs
-Replace spokes
-Replace chain/sprockets (play with sprocket sizes?)
-Replace tires/tubes (continental tires - RB 2/K 112 conti-twins)
-Flush and bleed front brake line, rebuild master cylinder/caliper as necessary
-Replace all cables
-Inspect rear brake?
-Replace speedo (not original?)
-Move ignition key to under frame (personal preference)
-Paint/coat tank and sidecovers Candy Jade Green (YES, I know the original color is Bacchus Olive, but I just can't resist the Jade
-Replace coils/wire/caps/plugs
-Buy new sidecovers (http://lpmreplicaparts.com/honda/CB500F/sidep.html)
-Replace seat
-Replace rear brake lens cover
-Replace air filters
-Replace all fuel/overflow lines
-Rebuild battery (It's new, but the previous owner let it sit for 2 months without a charge in the cold, and now it can't hold one.  I'll be emptying it of electrolyte and frying it soon to clean the plates.  )

So, since this is my first ORGANIZED project - even though it's my second time tearing into a bike - how does my list look? Is there anything else I should add?  Any advice you guys would give is greatly appreciated.  I'm just trying to prep so that when I get home I can jump right into this. I'd like to see if I could finish in time to enjoy the end of the TX riding season in October.

Questions I have in advance:  What kind of media do you recommend for blasting the frame?  Is there any preference/leader in engine hardware?  Does anybody offer some kind of a clearcoat I can use to protect the chrome of my exhaust (since I know they have a tendency to rust through)?

P.S. I apologize for only posting links to albums, but my internet over here is slow and cuts out often, and uploading/attaching pics isn't exactly a luxury I have at the moment.  Anyways, thanks in advance for all the help!

[Lavis500]

OK, so I thought I posted an update a week ago, but I guess my computer pooped out on me?

Im finally home in the states and I got the bike to my house!  Things don't look too bad, but definitely not starting right now. I got lazy with the battery - decided to just go and buy a new one.  Got home, charged it up, then tested all of my electronics.  Everything works well, coils give good spark, and the plugs dont even look too old!  Should work fine for now at least.  I also noticed something interesting - My CB500 has a turn signal buzzer?!  I thought this feature was only on the 550's...  can anybody give me some guidance here?  Also my fork ears, front turn signals, guages, and disc guard are reminiscent of the 550, although all my numbers say 500.  Though I'm not exactly unfamiliar with bikes, this is new to me, and the PO says he was only the 2nd owner.  All he said he did was change the spark plugs and oil - just enough to get it running - then he rode it for a summer and it sat for 7 years until I bought it. History from the original ownr, however, is unknown.  As if that wasn't enough, here's ANOTHER weird thing:  all of my jets seem original with Keihin markings and they appear to be old as time, but they dont all match stock specs.  My slow jet is a 40, but my main jet is a 105.  Maybe the original owner changed out a few things...?  the rest of the bike doesn't really look molested, though...  and if anything from the front was changed, then I would expect t to have been everything from the steering stem forward, as there is a lot of factory yellow torque stripe.

Well, I guess the good news is I'm almost done cleaning my carbs, and soon I'll throw them back on to see if I can get this bad boy running.   The bad news is that the fin under the headgasket is entirely black.  Gasket blown maybe?     I'll clean it all up and run it up and see.  If not then there's no reason to mess with it unnecessarily.

Also, I've noticed that as my bike has sat in the garage there are two nice little puddles forming under my forks.  I'm thinking that when I strapped the bike down to the trailer nice and tight, it may have been a bit much and blew the old fork seals.  I removed the already torn boots to get a look at what I might be working with and one of my fork tubes looks really nice, but the other has a nasty rust buildup.  It's at the very top, though.

Oh well - first things first, lets see if she'll run!  Then I'll look into fixing everything else after we get a good confirmation of the engine!

P.S.  I've never really buffed aluminum before, and I can tell that after dipping the carbs I removed some kind of clear coat from the bowls and heads.  Can anybody give me some hints/tips on that?  I was thinking a wire brush and a dremel, but I don't want to do too much too fast and end up marring/ruining something.  Soda blast maybe?  Still need to buy an air compressor...

[kslrr]

Welcome back and welsome to the forums!  As far as the black fin, it is most likely the usual oil leak from old oil passage O-rings.

[Lavis500]

Hopefully thats what it is and I was plannin on watching for oil tonight when I ran Sally for the first time, but I've run into a small problem...  Familiar with the 2 small keys that fit into the rod on the rack, locking the rod into the adjustment arms? It seems they have been lost during my cleaning...     I went through my buckets of Berryman, I looked in all my little parts baggies...   Any idea on how to procure new ones?  I checked bikebandit and a few other sites, but they all seem to have the big parts of he rack as one assembly without a breakdownto the level I need.  help??   

[kslrr]

You might need to make some out of small square steel stock.  I thought the arms clamped to the rod.  Am I remembering wrong?

[Lavis500]

The arms have both a clamp and a metal key.  I was lucky; my father found one of the keys at his house - where the bike was originally stored while I was gone and a 3 hour drive.  He gave me the measurements, and I'll see if I can find a similar key at Ace or Elliot's hardware.  For anybody interested, the halfmoon keys are 3mm thick, 5 mm tall, and 12 mm long.  If I can't find one, I'll just fabricate one.  After that, next step = test run! well, of the engine anyways...  lol.

I cheated last night and sprayed starting fluid into the open intake ducts and pressed the starter.  It took a while but it actually started and accelerated and peaked to 5,000 rpms before falling down.  Exhaust rust flew EVERYWHERE!   At least I know that my valve timing and points are somewhere in the ballpark enough that the cylinders could fire a few times.  Can't wait to see what happens when I actually put carbs on.  I'll be sure to make a video.

[Lavis500]

Good news, everybody!  If you happen to lose the same pieces I did, you can go to Ace Hardware or any other hardware store and buy a woodruff key! They had them in the exact dimensions I specified, but the key was exactly 3mm thick - thesame as the hole.  Thus I had to shave it down a tad bit to fit properly.  So, a fine file, some vice grips to hold the tiny key, and about 20 minutes later I'm finishing the re-racking of my carbs!  Hopefully I'll be test running tonight!

The bad news - I got bored last night and decide to test the resistance on my plug caps.  some were at 9.5K ohms, one at 12K, and another one (amazingly) at 17K.  I'm hoping I messed up the reading, but it seemed consistant...  Eitherway, I already have news ones on the way. For $5 a piece from NGK for 5K ohm caps it would make no sense not to get new ones.

If I get her running tonight I'l definitely post a vid!

[Lavis500]

So the past few days have been interesting...  I definitely got her running a little bit that night.  I had a hanging bottle delivering fuel initially, but I took it down because it was leaking fuel.  Afterwards I decided to simply sit the fuel lines in my gas can, assuming that the compression of the engine would kinda suck gas in.  It worked well enough. [youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSDryHEbT5M[/youtube]
In the video I pointed out a couple of my features that seem to be 550ish, but I've now decided it must have been the original owner.  I am using the same assumption to explain the 105 main jets, as my headers are a bit blue - thus making me believe the manufacturer or dealer wouldn't put those in.

Anyways, the next day I pulled my carbs off, reset my floats AGAIN (it seems my first float "tool" was at 25mm, but I measured twice on the new one.  ) I also installed the airbox this time as it wasn't done before.  I made a new temporary gas tank - or pair, rather - by drilling 3/8" holes in the bottom of 2 sobe lifewater bottles.  I pierced the caps and tied small loops of 550 cord to each cap.  The caps have air holes to breath and are able to be suspended by any hook.  The fuel line was inserted in the 3/8 holes, then sealed with some $2 silicone sealant from walmart.  I used a pair of hemistats to turn the flow on and off.  Question:  Is it normal for the bowls to overflow a little bit upon initial fill up?  Three of my drain tubes flowed for a little while, but they stopped after a minute or two.  I mean, I even had gas coming out of the drain port on the intake box, but it was only for a minute or so.  I've never ACTUALLY had a bike running well until now, so...  just curious.  Here's my pre-start up summary of what's changed for the 2nd run:[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htp01UH4eWU[/youtube]

My wife (my youtube master) is uploading the last video right now.  It's a good video with lots of running.

So, after the last video was filmed I was lucky enough to find a compression guage.  I say lucky because I'd called every motorcycle shop and auto shop in town, and NOBODY would sell me a gauge with a 12mm adapter.  I go to autozone - the first place I tried - and they just happened to get a kit in that goes anywhere from 10mm to 18mm.  I do my test, and frowned.  The results were as such: 
Cylinder 1: 128 psi
Cylinder 2: 128 psi
Cylinder 3: 130 psi
Cylinder 4: 130 psi

If I remember correctly, 140 is the accepted minimum.  I put a little bit of oil in cylinder 1 to do another compression test and verify if my problem was rings, and disaster struck.  My adapter on my gauge started to cross thread the first couple of threads.   I wasn't able to fix it and seat it tight, but it was tight enough to kinda seal from where it was. I could tell air was still leaking from the plug hole, but even with that the compression increased to 150 psi.  I would definitely say new rings are in order.

With all this being said, I need to clean out my garage, get a work bench, and pull my engine!  I suppose I'll replace all gaskets and o-rings just for good measure, clean everything up, and replace my rings.  I'll also run a thread chaser from the inside out to fix my cylinder 1 spark plug hole.  Worst comes to worst I'll look towards a helicoil inserts, but hopefully I'll never get that far.  Is there anything else I should do while I'm in there?  I was thinking about maybe some light porting, but I don't want to jump in too far over my head.

PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE I need input!



EDIT: The video is now up!
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELPnzxkto1g[/youtube]

[Lavis500]

So today I started stripping things off the bike so that I can pull the engine soon.  When I pulled the gauges off I compared them to the ones I purchased off of ebay.  It was then that I both discovered and confirmed that I had gauges and a bracket from an early CB550.  After the rebuild of the engine and painting of the frame I'm going to install the "new" 500 gauges because the 550 gauges are a little beat up.  Eventually I'll rebuild the 550 gauges, but that'll be at the very bottom of my list.

I've come to the complete conclusion that something disastrous happened to this bike once upon a time and the original owner replaced everything from the steering stem forward.  As I've pointed out more than anybody has cared to read I have numerous things on this bike that just don't add up, but the final thing that did it for me was the turn signal beeper. When I found it, it did NOT have the normal wire connections, but had 3 thin bare wires that simply wedged in the appropriate connecting junctions.  You know what though...   I think I'm going to put everything back together the same way.  I like the 550 look, and I actually think the signal beeper is a good idea.

Question:  So the seat I bought didn't have the rubber mounts on the bottom.  Easy enough, I took the old ones off my old seat pan as they were fine...  But I'm having an issue trying to put them on.  The round ones went easy, but the rectangular pads seem a bit more difficult.  Does anybody have any tricks/tips for them?  I searched and couldn't find anything.

[Lavis500]

Note to self:  Just because a sprocket has the number 17 on it doesn't mean it has 17 teeth...   Apparently the PO out on a 15 tooth front sprocket, and the chain was rubbing on the case.  It's ok; the wear isn't really bad at all.  Just some minor scratching.  I could probably even buff it out if I wanted to.  So, if anybody wants a 15 tooth sprocket, let me know.  I'll let it go for the cost of shipping.  It looks damn near new.  I'll post pictures later.

Got my engine out yesterday!  Now onto the really fun stuff...