Author Topic: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?  (Read 6246 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bjatwood

  • I never claimed to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
  • 1973 CB750-K3
    • Minbikers Proboards
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 06:12:00 AM »
The only thing I can think of is since the chain is much fatter 100 link might not have been enough.

Houston we have lift off!  ;)
Brian
#24193

I believe that the Finest things are the most thoughtfully made, not the most expensive!
http://minibikers.proboards.com/

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 06:24:48 AM »
I don't know what the hell is going on here. Both old and new chains are 530x100. Old chain is much thinner and non o-ring type. I confirmed sprocket count and they're correct as well (48/18). The only thing I can think of is since the chain is much fatter 100 link might not have been enough.
All 50 (520, 525, 530) series chains are the same distance pin to pin.

To follow your logic you would say that a 6ft person weighing 150 pounds is shorter than a 6 ft person weighing 200lbs. But of course: 6ft = 6ft.

I'm pretty sure that's right.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline CBNJ74

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Sweep the leg!
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 07:26:08 AM »
The only thing I can think of is since the chain is much fatter 100 link might not have been enough.

Houston we have lift off!  ;)

bjatwood,

You agree with my logic?
1973 Honda CB750K
1983 Honda VF750 Interceptor
2005 Triumph Thruxton
2012 Ducati Monster 1100evo

Offline Harsh

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,103
  • 74 CB750 and two 72 CB350's
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 07:58:09 AM »
The only thing I can think of is since the chain is much fatter 100 link might not have been enough.

If by fatter you implying wider the number of links would not matter, especially when comparing the same series of chains like MC posted.

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 08:07:48 AM »
The only thing I can think of is since the chain is much fatter 100 link might not have been enough.

If by fatter you implying wider the number of links would not matter, especially when comparing the same series of chains like MC posted.
Thx harsh. Further:
http://www.moto-chains.com/site/898528/page/578189

The "pitch" distance between pins is the same seriesd to series. The width of the opening changes from 520 to 525 to 530. The thickness of sideplates, beefiness of the inside link, etc goes to tensile strength but not dimension.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline bjatwood

  • I never claimed to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
  • 1973 CB750-K3
    • Minbikers Proboards
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2013, 11:53:15 AM »
bjatwood,
You agree with my logic?
[/quote]

Wished you would have folowed my post/advice earlier Grasshopper! :-\
Brian
#24193

I believe that the Finest things are the most thoughtfully made, not the most expensive!
http://minibikers.proboards.com/

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2013, 06:31:52 PM »
I am using standard sprocket sizes so looks like I am good to go. I am however having a hell of time riveting it. I'm not quite squashing the pins enough to give me the warm and fuzzies. I don't have a micrometer to measure the size of the rivet.

This is my first chain job so I may just use the clip instead. I'm using the motion pro tools so I'm not sure how well they rate around here. The breaker and press worked great. The riveter not so great. I'm probably doing something wrong.

IF you had bought a regular chain you would be riding it right now.

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,072
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 06:50:29 PM »
Chain skinny:
The CB750K0 had 16/45 sprockets and 98-link chain (all here are going to be 530 size).
The CB750K1 had 17/48 sprockets, still a VERY popular chioce today unless doing long, high-speed touring: these came with 100-link chains.
The CB750K2-K6 had 18/48 sprockets, and used the same 100-link chains as the K1. When new, the chain adjusters end up AHEAD of the 1st mark, in many cases, with new parts installed. This will quickly wear itself back to the 1st mark, typically within 500 miles.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline CBNJ74

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Sweep the leg!
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2013, 06:00:00 AM »
I am using standard sprocket sizes so looks like I am good to go. I am however having a hell of time riveting it. I'm not quite squashing the pins enough to give me the warm and fuzzies. I don't have a micrometer to measure the size of the rivet.

This is my first chain job so I may just use the clip instead. I'm using the motion pro tools so I'm not sure how well they rate around here. The breaker and press worked great. The riveter not so great. I'm probably doing something wrong.

IF you had bought a regular chain you would be riding it right now.

Oh I'm riding it. It's just that the wheel is pushed all the way forward past the first notch in the swing arm. I'd say it's one notch past the first one. I will say it did loosen up a little after the first ride around town. But yes in retrospect I should have just got a regular chain.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 07:01:07 AM by CBNJ74 »
1973 Honda CB750K
1983 Honda VF750 Interceptor
2005 Triumph Thruxton
2012 Ducati Monster 1100evo

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 06:39:25 AM »
Chain skinny:
The CB750K0 had 16/45 sprockets and 98-link chain (all here are going to be 530 size).
The CB750K1 had 17/48 sprockets, still a VERY popular chioce today unless doing long, high-speed touring: these came with 100-link chains.
The CB750K2-K6 had 18/48 sprockets, and used the same 100-link chains as the K1. When new, the chain adjusters end up AHEAD of the 1st mark, in many cases, with new parts installed. This will quickly wear itself back to the 1st mark, typically within 500 miles.
Thanks Mark.

Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline bjatwood

  • I never claimed to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
  • 1973 CB750-K3
    • Minbikers Proboards
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2013, 07:39:03 AM »
I would rather have too many links in the chain than not enough. Very easy to take a link or three out but very tough to put one or two back in.
And with the extra links you can make a cool Business card holder... ;)
Brian
#24193

I believe that the Finest things are the most thoughtfully made, not the most expensive!
http://minibikers.proboards.com/

Offline CBNJ74

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Sweep the leg!
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2013, 08:16:57 AM »
Anybody interested in a slightly used 530x100 Tsubaki Omega Sealed O-ring chain? It will be coming off as soon as I purchase a plain Jane regular chain LOL
1973 Honda CB750K
1983 Honda VF750 Interceptor
2005 Triumph Thruxton
2012 Ducati Monster 1100evo

Offline andy750

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,947
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2013, 09:05:12 AM »
Anybody interested in a slightly used 530x100 Tsubaki Omega Sealed O-ring chain? It will be coming off as soon as I purchase a plain Jane regular chain LOL

I dont know why you would want to take it off and have the extra maintenance associated with a "regular" chain but sure I am interested in taking it off your hands. How much are you looking for?

thanks
Andy
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline bjatwood

  • I never claimed to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
  • 1973 CB750-K3
    • Minbikers Proboards
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2013, 10:14:46 AM »
+1,
I would be interested in it too... But, bought a X-ring chain last season and haven't had to adjust the darn thing yet...2,500 miles.
I'm sure in 10 years I might need a new one  ;)
Brian
#24193

I believe that the Finest things are the most thoughtfully made, not the most expensive!
http://minibikers.proboards.com/

Offline CBNJ74

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 297
  • Sweep the leg!
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2013, 10:40:34 AM »
Anybody interested in a slightly used 530x100 Tsubaki Omega Sealed O-ring chain? It will be coming off as soon as I purchase a plain Jane regular chain LOL

I dont know why you would want to take it off and have the extra maintenance associated with a "regular" chain but sure I am interested in taking it off your hands. How much are you looking for?

thanks
Andy

Because of where the adjusting notch is sitting. With the old chain it was sitting somewhere in the middle. I'll leave it alone then.
1973 Honda CB750K
1983 Honda VF750 Interceptor
2005 Triumph Thruxton
2012 Ducati Monster 1100evo

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,072
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2013, 10:46:51 PM »
The K0-K6 will fit up to a 106-link 530 chain, which makes for a little longer wheelbase. I used the 102 mostly when touring 1-up, the 104 when carrying my wife (and her stuff...) to lengthen it and smooth out the handling with heavy loads. Today I use the 102 link Diamond Powersport (my personal favorite), which is a lightweight, high-performance, 100 HP chain. The last one I had went a little over 40k miles before it stretched out to 1.5%. That's more than I usually go: I like to change them at 1% stretch (1 link, or 5/8") because beyond that they start tending to become uneven and make the drive train snatch a little. (I like silky...)

For non-Oring/Xring chains, you can check them (and greatly extend their lives) by washing once during the winter in gasoline or solvent to remove the goo, then dry and lay the chain out flat. Press all the links together to shorten it all, then measure the length. Then pull HARD on it, measure again. This looseness is the "stretch" figure. O-ring/Xring chains barely move because of their seals, so they can't be measured for wear this way.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline scunny

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,615
  • don't call me expert
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2013, 02:12:41 AM »
IMHO width will not have any effect on the length of your chain. you may have a different length swingarm(hey your bike is 30+ years old, who knows whats been changed) if you can still adjust the chain to the right tension, ignore the marks.
at this stage I run away and hide.  ;D
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
           SL100[sold]
           XL250R
           pedal(pub bike) leaks oil
my gallery http://gallery.sohc4.net/members/personal/scunny

Offline andy750

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,947
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2013, 12:18:59 PM »
Anybody interested in a slightly used 530x100 Tsubaki Omega Sealed O-ring chain? It will be coming off as soon as I purchase a plain Jane regular chain LOL

I dont know why you would want to take it off and have the extra maintenance associated with a "regular" chain but sure I am interested in taking it off your hands. How much are you looking for?

thanks
Andy

Because of where the adjusting notch is sitting. With the old chain it was sitting somewhere in the middle. I'll leave it alone then.

As long as the chain is adjusted correctly (has the right amount of play) and is even at the swingarm then I dont see a problem. Tsubaki make excellent chains and I have used the same one on the CB750 for thousands of miles.

Good luck
Andy
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,365
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2013, 07:10:50 PM »
I fail to see the problem. Unless this is a put on.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline Tews19

  • I am no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,433
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2014, 07:04:01 PM »
I swapped out a new chain today on my 750 K1. 18/48 sprockets. I have roughly 3000 plus miles on mine and the chain a diamond 530 non oring was toast. It had 102 links. I was no longer able to adjust. If I did it would have fallen off the swing arm. I put on a 100 link 530 non oring today. The wheel is almost all the way forward but it works.
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,911
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2014, 10:02:31 PM »
3000 miles? :o :o :o >:( :'(...just get o-ring chains...12-20,000 miles
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Tews19

  • I am no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,433
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2014, 06:03:24 AM »
I think an oring chain is my next option
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Nic

  • Guest
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2014, 11:35:18 AM »
I put a DID non Oring chain on mine, I just de linked it to the right length. It stretched big time on first ride around the block but in 2500Ks it's only been adjusted 1/2 a notch on the swingarm.

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,072
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2014, 03:09:18 PM »
I'm always curious when I hear of folks getting 4000-5000 miles from a Diamond chain. My last one went over 40,000 miles and had worn ("stretched") to the 2nd adjuster notch on the swingarm (it started out on the front edge of the first notch). The current one has over 10,000 miles on it: this one is a 102-link version (Diamond Powersport plain-Jane type) and it started at the 2nd notch on the swingarm adjusters: so far it is barely past the notch.

Chain care (and lube choice) is vital, and not just on the SOHC4 bikes. I wash mine with the hi-pressure carwash, bike on centerstand, let it have it until it spins the whole wheel 'round and cleans the rear sprocket, about once a month (or about 1,000 miles). Then I ride about 2-5 miles at 40-70 MPH to fling the water away and warm the chain up, and immediately lube it warm and let it cool down.  When on a long trip, it gets new lube once a day, on the centerstand, when the chain is warm. I usually do this at night or when stopping for the day, lets the lube soak in and set up. When the slack reaches more than about 1.5" I adjust it back to 3/4"-1" slack.

Every 8K miles or so, I flip the front sprocket: every 10k or so the rear one. This 'evens-out' their wears, too. I usually get about 20K miles from the front sprockets and about 50k from the rear: I have just installed the 4th rear sprocket on mine, at 140k miles.

The OEM Honda RK chain lasted less than 4000 miles, was stretched to nearly the center of the adjusters and jumped and rattled like a grasshopper on a hot summer day. This was in 1972, April. Diamond had just intro'd their new-for-CB750 Diamond XL chain, so I installed that: by the next April I had 15k miles on that chain (19k miles on the bike) and it had adjusted just 1/2 notch on the swingarm. I was 'sold' on the Diamond then: in the meantime, all the other 750 riders who hung out with our shop had gone through multiple RK (or other) Japanese chains. The only exception was a guy who switched to Renolds chain when his OEM wore out: he had adjusted his a full swingarm notch in about the same mileage as mine, or about twice the 'stretch'. It was still silky smooth, and he ran it another year after that.

At 38k miles I was heading out for a round-the-West trip of 10k or more miles (which became over 12k in the end) and Diamond had intro'd their "improved" XDL version of this chain. It has Oilite bushings for every pin, hardened pins and sideplates, shot-peened sideplates to boot, and the 1-piece machined rollers are also hardened and have extra clearance between the sideplates and them to let the oil move about easier. The first one of these I used went 38k miles, the second went over 40k miles (I still have that one) before they stretched 1% (5/8", or one link on the 100-link chain). I switched to the new one when I started using the 102-link version: by then Diamond renamed it the 'Powersport' chain, but it is still the same as the older XDL series. That's what they call it today.

The main advantage of the "O-ring" or "X-ring" chains is the lack of need for lubing the pins. But, the sprockets and rollers still need all the lube they ever did, or they will wear, and quick! These 'sealed' chains suffer drag: they are about 93% efficient (say their builders) while the "bare" chain is 95% effificent with good lube: Powersport technology takes this up another notch to 97%. These actual dyno tests are (or WERE) found on the Diamond website, circa 2006, when I was writing my book, and were done by an independent lab. I know from working on the Baby Fours that installing a "bare" chain in place of the O-ring type most definitely improved hiway throttle response, which meets with those numbers.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: CB750K3: Chain and final drive sprockets lesson?
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2014, 09:16:57 AM »
IMHO width will not have any effect on the length of your chain. you may have a different length swingarm(hey your bike is 30+ years old, who knows whats been changed) if you can still adjust the chain to the right tension, ignore the marks.
at this stage I run away and hide.  ;D

Another way to measure the position of the back wheel to get it right, is just measure from the swing arm pivot point to the rear axle center.