Topic: michigan helmet violation

[a4x4spit]

My girlfriend got Pulled over today by a state cop she stops takes her helmet off & sets it on the bike seat . the cop wants her liscence & registration which she gives him while hes looking at her helmet ,(its covered with biker stickers) she says your not going to hold that against me are ya ? he says thats why I pulled you over .  he goes back to cruiser and comes back with a ticket that says helmet voilation.
then he gets her worked up saying he could impound her bike but hes going to be nice & let her go on her way... she says he was going the other way & turned around & followed her for several miles before pulling her over .
   I think she should fight this ticket for several reasons                   1   her helmet IS D.O.T approved
2   how can he make a determination apout the helmit if he never picks it up or looks at it (if he did this he would have seen labels sewn it the linings .
3 the helmets legal  and thats the reason he pulled her over , he had no reason pull her over

she didnt say much to the cop because she was scared and upset that  he was going to impound  any one ever fought somthing like this?  its only a hundred dollar ticket but its not right IMO

[bender01]

Would the cop Known she was Female ? Was it open faced with no glasses? Go to court it will be dropped although a PITA.  Have you been doing burnouts in town on her Pink CB?

[MickeyX]

Have her go into traffic court and make sure she brings the helmet. Fight it. He can't give her a ticket based on stickers unless they are covering her DOT sticker.

[74cb750]

AH, seems this type of official harrassment is taught cournty-wide.

I love it when an officier of the law asks;
"So, how much have you had to drink today?"
instead of the less confrontational,
"Have you had any alcohol to drink today?"

You have to remember, when an officier pulls you over, it is imperitive he
maintains control/domination. Why? Well it is proven if someone is
mentally compromised (drugs/alcohol) they will react negatively when
challenged.

My advise: fight the ticket, and good on ya for keeping your temper in check.
Could he really have had your bike towed? I doubt it.
peace,
michel

[a4x4spit]

it is open face 1/2 helmet she was wearing eye protection and her coat has pink stripes on it . her bike is a 2004 750 Honda with a windshield.her helmet does not have a dot sticker on the outside anymore ,we got 6 helmets between us and non of them has a dot sticker on the out side. the helmet is 8 years old (she got it with her 1st motorcycle and has been wearing it since 2002 with no issues )  but the cop couldn't tell that unless he was clairvoyant and it has labels on the inside . I would also seriously doubt that he has the technical skills to say her helmet did or did not meet dot specs especially since he didnt touch the helmet
I dont think he could have towed it either, another thing the cop said this ticket was like a seat belt ticket altho I doubt he would give that ticket out & let them driveaway without their seatbelt on.

[scrapvalue]

 Hey a4x4spit,

If you have the time to go to court, I would definitely fight this crap.
Take the helmet and make a stand.  
If the cop doesn't show up at the hearing, it will be thrown out.
If he does show up, he will have to explain himself.
He can't give you another ticket, so there is really nothing to loose, except your time.
Was it a city, county, or city cop?
Not that it really matters, it just sounds like something a city cop would do.

I would almost be tempted to go to the police post and asked the commander what the problem with the helmet is.
Show him the helmet and explain what happened. Ask him what you can do to make sure you don't have the problem again.
The commander may not be to happy with the cops actions.
Just an idea.

Anyway, good to see another sohc4 member up here in the great white north.
Ever come riding up here in the Petoskey area?


  

[flybox1]

bottom line....the helmet is legal.
OK, he couldnt see the DOT sticker, fine.  
he should have checked out the helmet and let her go.

do what scrapvalue said, and head down to the station and ask a few questions...then get your court date.

[kirkn]

Yep, don't let it get yer (or her) blood pressure up, just send the ticket in requesting court date.  (Well, that's how they work here in FL - pay it or request a court date).

Show up at court, bring the helmet to show the DOT sticker, case dismissed - no fees, no points.

I'm betting the cop just saw all the 'other' stickers and was betting that it was a non-DOT beanie helmet.  All the rest is/was just bluff and bluster...

[a4x4spit]

it was a state cop who regularly partols our area  same guy wrote me a seatbelt ticket in january in just about the same location  she is layed off right now so she has the time to fight it . she was pretty upset yesterday but is feeling ready to fight it today.
scrapvalue:  we do get to petoskey from time to time we are a little south of traverse city we look for excuses to ride places

[Gordon]

her helmet does not have a dot sticker on the outside anymore ,we got 6 helmets between us and non of them has a dot sticker on the out side.

I don't know what the law is in your state, but if you're required to have the DOT sticker on the helmet then you're going to lose the court battle. 

[BobbyR]

her helmet does not have a dot sticker on the outside anymore ,we got 6 helmets between us and non of them has a dot sticker on the out side.

I don't know what the law is in your state, but if you're required to have the DOT sticker on the helmet then you're going to lose the court battle. 

Have your GF or yourself look up the state helmet law and see if it speaks about the sticker on the outside of the helmet.

[754]

Take it to court..
 Seeing as he DID NOT INSPECT the helmet, I can not see it holding up in court..

 Book the court date, then talk his superior. This can do two things;
 perhaps stop the ongoing harrasment.

 Make sure the cop gets his dressing down fron the judge, no matter what his superior says to him, I bet the judge reaming him will have greater impact..

 Good luck.. and happy riding..

 I still have my LAWS SUCK sticker on my helmet...

[kirkn]

Hmm.... boy, that'd be a tough one.

If you could prove that the helmet is DOT-approved (a sewn-in tag or something), you might get away with it.  I guess it'd depend on the wording of the law and the spirit of the judge that day.

Of course, if the cop doesn't show up (and many times they don't) then it's dismissed regardless.

Hmmm........

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, that is one sticker you do not want to remove, it can cost you.

[sangyo soichiro]

I would almost be tempted to go to the police post and asked the commander what the problem with the helmet is.

+1

Take into the station and put them on the spot.  In fact, with any luck, maybe you'll find the original cop and put him on the spot. 


I think the officer simply thought it was one of those novelty helmets. 

[Bob Wessner]

This is from down in Adrian, but might be worth a read.

http://michiganmessenger.com/37146/motorcyclists-challenge-seizure-of-alleged-illegal-helmets

[Markcb750]

I did a lot of travel in Michigan.  Especially around Detroit with the little jurisdictions all vying to see who got to keep the largest Barney Fife Brigade.


I developed the following lines to address how I felt about their tax supplement system.  

In response to their "Have a nice day"



"I certainly hope one of your loved ones where not raped, robbed, or murdered while you where here collecting this insignificant amount of money from me."

"I sincerely hope the rest of your day sucks."


They would take your drivers license if you where from out of state, make you go to the local kangaroo court to retrieve it. #$%*s.


BTW, I have gotten speeding tickets in 7 other states, I am somewhat a seasoned vet.  Washington State has the best revenue collector training for picking tourist from the group.

[my78k]

Up here it has to have the DOT sticker visible

[Gonzowerke]

This is what http://www.bikersrights.com/states/michigan/michigan.html has on Michigan law. I see nothing about a visible sticker. I highlighted the section about who approves helmets.

STATUTE:

    Chapter VI. Obedience To and Effect of Traffic Laws. Operation of Bicycles, Motorcycles and Toy Vehicles. Section 257.658. Bicycles, motorcycles, mopeds, autocycles; operators and riders, seating, number, crash helmets, seat belts; rules. :

          ". . . (4) A person operating or riding on a motorcycle . . . on a public thoroughfare shall wear a crash helmet on his or her head. . . ."

FINE:

    Feb 25, 1999 - Riding without a helmet in Michigan is a Civil Infraction, and the fine can be as much as $100.00, plus $100.00 court cost, However each County can set there own fine for this infraction. In Montcalm, Ionia, and Ottawa County, the fine is $55.00 w/no court cost, in Kent County it is $35.00. with no court costs. In Houghton County, a citation for no helmet is an $85 fine with no court cost. A rider would have to check with each counties District court to determine for sure what the fine in there area is. The fine doesn't go up for further tickets. (Info thanks to Chuck Ross and Thomas E. Davis)

STANDARDS:

    Title XVI. Motor Vehicles. Chapter 189. Traffic Regulations; Vehicle Equipment and Storage. Section 189.285 Regulations for Operating and Riding On Motorcycles. :

          " . . . Crash helmets shall be approved by the department of state police. The department of state police shall promulgate rules for the implementation of this section pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, Act No. 306 of the Public Acts of 1969, being sections 24.201 to 24.315 of the Michigan Compiled laws. Rules in effect on June 1, 1970, shall apply to helmets required by this act. . . ."

COURT DECISIONS:

    "Amendment to Motor Vehicle Code by P.A.1966, No. 207, adding the section requiring motorcyclists and riders to wear crash helmets was unconstitutional since it had no relationship to the public health, safety and welfare, although it had a relationship to protection of individual motorcyclist from himself." American Motorcycle Ass'n v. Davids (1968) 158 N.W.2d 72, 11 Mich.App. 351.

    "The state has a substantial interest in highway safety." American Motorcycle Ass'n v. Davids (1968) 158 N.W.2d 72, 11 Mich.App. 351.

    "An ordinance requiring a motorcyclist to wear a crash helmet is a creative, relatively nonintrusive response of government to protect the public from detrimental technological change, and since wearing a helmet is a minor burden, the effects of which benefit not only both parties involved in an accident, but society as a whole, since enforcement is open and public, and since cost of the helmet is not only low, but technologically simple to achieve, ordinance does not constitute an unlawful invasion of individual rights, but represents a valid exercise of the police power." People of City of Adrian v. Poucher (1976) 247 N.W.2d 798, 398 Mich. 316.

    "The exercise of the police power in respect to highway safety interferes with the personal liberties of some citizens, but changes in transportation, including the increase in the number of motorcycles, have expanded the permissible legislative infringement on individual liberties in the area of highway safety to protect the public safety and the common welfare." People of City of Adrian v. Poucher (1976) 247 N.W.2d 798, 398 Mich. 316.

CURRENT ACTIVITY:

    HB-4823 - 1/29/03 - Helmet Mod bill - 21 and over with 2 years riding endorsement or completion of a MRF safety course; passed the House 5/29/02, but was held up in the senate until it past it's deadline and died. ABATE has started a new bill and has more support than in the past. Check the ABATE of Michigan site for more info. [Thanks to Snake for info]

    ABATE has set February 6th, 13th, and 20th as "Legislative Days" in Lansing along with our "Freedom Rally" on June 5th and reqiest you call your legislators to set an appointment for one of these scheduled days.

PAST ACTIVITY:

    Oct. 31, 2001 - HB 4823 - 21+ helmet mod bill passed the House Trans Committee, but didn't get the required 56 votes (10/31/01) needed to pass the House and was held over for the next legislative session. REQUIREMENTS: 21 or older, minimum of 2 years motorcycle license or completion of an approved rider's safety course. More info...

    June 5, 2000 - The Michigan Department of State Police is seeking amendment of their Administrative Code R28.951 - R28.961 through incorporation by reference of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).

    R28.951 would be amended to delete the present language and incorporate by reference 49 CFR Ch. V, Section 571.218 Standard No. 218; of the Certified Federal Standard for motorcycle protective headgear (FMVSS 218).

    Assuming the Police will need to amend the law through the Legislature, this opens up debate, which along with having to be signed by the Governor could bring about the end of the Michigan Helmet Law.

    Legal Loophole In Helmet Law? - Michigan law requires bikers to wear helmets, however police are concerned about a loophole in the law that won't allow them to pull over bikers without helmets.

[a4x4spit]

 a mi state police web site says how officers are to Id dot helmets... since stickers are ofter gone & just because it has a sticker still doesnt not mean it is a dot helmet its must have at least 1" of padding & sturdy buckles . not very much info to go by  I think this cops patrol zone  is a revenue maker for the state and he was kinda fishing seeing what he can get by a bs stop everything checked out on her so he gave the helmet ticket .when she called to court they asked "you werent wearing a helmet?"she will take her helmet with her to court

 now Im wondering about my helmet I wear when riding my cb its a fullface helmet my parents bought me when i was 17 (Im 52now )right after I got my 750 it has no stickers on it inside or out its painted to match my bike I wont get hasseled because its a full face (i hope) is it the police's responsability to prove the helmet isnt dot or our responsability to prove it is?
so how do you know what helmets are aproved by the state police ? I havent found a list

[Duke McDukiedook]

The state police do not approve jack #$%*, never have, never will.

Like I said above, losing that sticker will cost you.

[kirkn]

You're wearing a 35 year old helmet??

Jeez, from a protection standpoint, yours ain't no better than one of them beanie novelty helmets...

    

[kirkn]

The state police do not approve jack #$%*, never have, never will.

Like I said above, losing that sticker will cost you.

Well, y'know, typically right next to the display stand selling the novelty helmets is the bin selling "DOT Approved" stickers.

Maybe you could pick up half a dozen...

[Grnrngr]

I'd have to see some actual proof of that, I've seen the results of UV degradation on fiberglass, and I can tell you from personal experience, that there are hundreds of thousands of 40+ yr old fiberglass boats on the water, where they are subjected to more extreme UV than pretty much anywhere else, that are not suffering from UV related problems. Don't know how old the last helmet I broke was, but it was at least 10yr old and held up well. Since both of the helmets I broke were Bells, I could say, if you're not wearing a Bell helmet, you might as well just wear a scarf on yer head. Back in the day, there were big debates over whether Lexan or Fiberglas made a better helmet, has there ever been a definitive answer to that one? In spite of the debates both types have saved lives and both have been found to be lacking in other respects. But, since the thread is about what to do about this legal situation....

I would definitely take it to court. Does her helmet have the brand name sticker on it still? Obviously a cop who can tell a helmet is DOT approved or not from a distance should also know that companies like Bell and HJC don't make helmets that are NOT DOT/Snell approved. And, obviously, anyone can put a DOT sticker on the outside of a helmet whether it is approved or not. I'd also mention that this is probably a ruse the cop uses to get a easy day off the street to go to court and is tantamount to harassment of motorcyclists.

[Gordon]

is it the police's responsability to prove the helmet isnt dot or our responsability to prove it is?
 

I think your girlfriend already found out the answer to that question the hard way.