Author Topic: Complete novice starting on an old 350  (Read 3918 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

TexasCBNovice

  • Guest
Complete novice starting on an old 350
« on: February 02, 2006, 04:00:29 PM »
So on a whim I bought this bike for very little money, and it now makes sense why it was so cheap.  It is in bad shape.  But I guess that I bought it with the adventure of rebuilding it in mind.  I could get a bike that already runs, but that would take the fun and frustration out of the whole thing.  I've looked around the wonderful wealth of information that this site provides but I still don't know where to start.  So I guess the question is: If you were going to tear down and rebuild a bike from the ground up, where would you start? 

Extra info:  the bike does not run and is definitely missing some parts.  The inside of the gas tank is rusted.  There are some broken bolts  here and there.  The wiring is bad (I think I can deal with anything mechanical, but I think that I am going to leave wiring the thing to an expert when I get close to getting her done).  I'm sure there is more, but I think if I list it all I am going to get a bit overwhelmed.  I just figure that I will take it section by section until it is done.  Thanks for the help.

Ronnie

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,475
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 04:17:08 PM »
welcome aboard ronnie,i hope you have hair,you`re gonna pull most of it out,but after you get it right,you`re gonna love it.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 04:20:05 PM »
Quote
but that would take the fun and frustration out of the whole thing.

Welcome, you have the right, balanced attitude already. As already stated, the frustration will come first, but in the end you will feel great about your accomplishment. Good luck.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline clarkjh

  • Expert? If only.
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,385
  • Surely and Samson are now Co-habitating
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 04:24:13 PM »
Welcome in
going from "boat anchor" to "noble steed" is half the fun with these machines, the other half is to do what you can yourself.  Again Welcome in

James
SOHC/4 #3328
SOHC/4 Gallery: http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/clarkjh/
1974 CB550, 40000 Miles
1980 GL1100, 102789 KM - Back on the road after a complete engine rebuild. 
*** Why, oh why, is it always head gaskets with me?***

Offline csendker

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,718
  • Chris; '75 CB550 & a Crusty 'ol boat
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 04:48:35 PM »
Welcome aboard.  These things are a blast to run.  I chose the 'get one that runs, and soon after another one as a project' route.  I can't resist the urge to wrench, but I'd be even more clueless than I am now if it weren't for the guys on this site.  Enjoy.
Actually runs --> 1975 CB550-K1
Projects ---> Crusty old boat
Gallery --> http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/Christopher/?g2_navId=xada3c7ff

cd811

  • Guest
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 05:05:06 PM »
welcome ;D   welcome ;D

take plenty of pics and keep us updated

Offline Tim2005

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,391
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 05:16:43 PM »
Where to start? Start by deciding what you want to do with it... stock concours rebuild, cafe, chop, daily rider, tourer, whatever.. decide how you want it to ride and to look, then pull it apart & see what you've got that will take you in that direction, keep the end in sight and the rest comes along naturally.

Offline csendker

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,718
  • Chris; '75 CB550 & a Crusty 'ol boat
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2006, 05:18:23 PM »
...and take a million pictures as you go.  They're invaluable when you want to put it back together again.
Actually runs --> 1975 CB550-K1
Projects ---> Crusty old boat
Gallery --> http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/Christopher/?g2_navId=xada3c7ff

Offline brewbrother

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 05:20:20 PM »
Seems beer helps. I suggest a cooler next to your work area.
If it is to be it is up to me.

Offline Patrick

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,398
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 05:29:55 PM »
It takes a special person to taking a heap of rusting steel and oxidized aluminum and turn it into a functioning vintage machine. Two parts resolve and one part insanity. Be prepared for several episodes of "What the hell was I thinking?" That all, however, is only a prelude to the incredible feeling you get he first time it moves under its own power with you on it. Take your time and enjoy the journey, grasshopper. Also bookmark this site. In fact, bookmark it twice. That way, when you are frustrated with an unsolvable problem and drunk you can just click on the one in the middle.

Don't be afraid of the wiring. It's pretty daunting and time consuming, but based on the fact that I made my electrics all work,  I pretty much figure anybody can. If I can, in fact, likely a chimpanzee can. The first thing I do with m old bikes is pull the engine and take it all apart. Not only does that let you inspect all the parts in the motor, it also makes the frame much lighter and easier to work on. You'll probably end up pulling it at some point anyway. Besides, it's fun.

From a fellow Texan...

Patrick
1970 CB750 K0
1982 VF750S Sabre
1987 VT1100 Shadow
1979 Yamaha XS11
1969 Yamaha DT1B
etc.

TexasCBNovice

  • Guest
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 07:21:42 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement everybody.  I guess I'll just do what I figured I was going have to do in the first place: tear that mother apart, put it back together and hope there aren't too many extra parts lying around.

Gibson

  • Guest
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 07:23:56 PM »
Welcome should get it runing first then see what you have from there. If the tank is rusted bad or their's loose rust in it get rid of it. if it's not bad put a filter in the line i also say new oil, filter,cheak the piont's new plug's new battery clean the carb's should go.
Good luck

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 07:27:31 PM »
Quote
and hope there aren't too many extra parts lying around.

If there are, it was just over-engineered. At least that's what I tell myself.  ;)
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline seaweb11

  • 1st Mate &
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,258
  • Ride & Smile
    • Playground Directory
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 08:36:40 PM »
As said before in this post...take lots of photos when you take it apart!!!!!!!!!

* I would always start with a runner. 
-Get the old bird running before tear down. It will give you a bit of carb,spark, fuel and electrical
experience that will become necessary and helpful in a rebuild anyway.  The key is.......after you get it all back together it will run as well as the last time you ran it. Getting it running will also give you any notice of things that need doing inside the engine while you have it out. Christ I can't imagine polishing up a non runner.......?

If the tank is rusted or dented beyond what you want to end up with, start by getting the tank you want to work with before spending bad money on a  do-it yourself rebuilt tank that you may not use in the end.. I got my tank and some other parts  from guys on this forum.

Leave the wiring till it needs doing, AT THE END.  Trust me it will go back together. "This from a color blind" 2nd time Honda re builder. I have to get the wife and kids help me re-wire and even I can do it.

You did not say what type of 350?
I am doing my 1st CL at present and parts are a bit harder to find on Ebay than the 750 stuff.http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=4489.0

There are a few of us here that are either rebuilding 350s at present or have done so for many years.

Drop me an email and I will try my best to give you the contacts I have found.

Offline pmpski_1

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 431
  • Beast V and Beast I
    • My CB550 related blog on MSN Spaces
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 08:40:34 PM »
What are you going to do with your name after you're done with the bike and no longer a CBNovice?

Depending on what condition it's in, I would try to find out why it doesn't run and fix that first. That way you have some idea of where to attack first. I don't have any advice for where to start if it's a complete wreck and you don't want to attempt to get it running. I'd probably start with the engine rebuild.

Like the others said, take pictures. Lots. But take notes too.  I can't tell you how many blurry photos I have of something that looks sorta shiny and sorta greasy.
Beast   I: 1974 CB550K
Beast IV: 1976 Chevy Blazer
Beast  V: 2003 Buell XB9S

Zane

  • Guest
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2006, 01:42:59 AM »
I'm pretty big on books.  I'd start by confirming my commitment to a bike that doesn't run and is missing parts.

If I decided to commit, I'd procure the parts list, a bona fide manufacturer's shop manual, and something like a Chilton manual for the motorcycle.  Depending on how mechanically inclined I was, and how much I knew about motorcycles, I might also obtain Honda's Common Service manual.  (You can download all three in pdf format, from http://www.honda4fun.com/home.php - under "Materiale".  I think some of the guys have mentioned a few other sites where that info is also available.  For the Honda bike specific shop manual, however, I'd try and buy an original copy from ebay or somewhere.  You just can't beat the quality of those original photos.)

While I was collecting those things I'd start a "data dump".  I would jot down every task I thought about,  that came to mind, and just keep adding to the list.  That clears my mind.  Then I would start "chunking" together items from my data dump.  I would probably do that on 3 x 5 index cards, and expect they would basically break down into cards headed with the bike's systems and subsystems.  For example, the data dump might say "find a front brake that fits", 'rebuild master cylinder" - and a few additional related things.  At a certain point I would label a card "front brake".  I'd use pencil for everything but the headings on the cards, and the first thing on the "Front Brake" card might read "make a list of the parts I have that I can use".  2nd on the list might be "research 350 front brake rebuilding on web".  3rd might be "make a list of parts I need to restore front brake system - master cylinder, lines, caliper, rotor, etc. 

Personally, I find that I often don't use this stuff after i write it down - writing it down in the first place is all it takes quite often, for me to progress quickly.  Everyone's different, and you might legitimately think "there's no way Brown's way of doing things is even remotely how I would approach this project".  That's cool too.....

But you did ask - and that's how I would start.

The only other thing I would try and do is "chunk" some low hanging fruit, to start.  I mean don't try all the tough stuff all at once, with no easy, high return / quick gratification stuff thrown in.  For me, an example of a "low hanging fruit" task was drilling out my brake rotor.  It was easy, I loved the way it looked (looks), and just looking at it gave me motivation when I was stuck in the middle of something far more difficult and demanding.

Welcome and the best of luck to you.  I know it's possible (and likely) you'll find a deep sense of accomplishment and satisfaction through your endeavors.




Offline turtle

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • 1980 CX500 Custom
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2006, 02:53:12 AM »
Hi Ronnie
Nice to see a few more 350's here. Mine is a '72 350 F and was in pretty bad shape when we got it although not too bad mechanically. It is currently stripped down and we will be painting the frame in the next week or so. We get the engine back from our mechanic friend who has been repairing the gearbox and generally sorting it out.
http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=4784.0
After that comes the expensive stuff like chrome plating etc.
Good luck with the project.
Jane
1972 CB350 Four
1977 CB750 K7
1979 Suzuki GT250 X7
1980 CX500 Custom
1980 CX500 Shadow
1981 CB900 Bol D'or
1982 CB750 F2



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Offline ohiocaferacer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
  • www.OHIOCAFERACERS.com
    • OHIO CAFE RACERS
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2006, 03:35:57 AM »
Ronnie,

Are you building a CB350 twin or a CB350/4???

You can make a nice bike out of both......heres a pic of my CB350 twin Cafe Racer:

http://www.ohiocaferacers.com/qsl-150.jpg

Welcome to the group!!

Later,
Greg
« Last Edit: February 03, 2006, 03:38:13 AM by ohiocaferacer »

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2006, 05:15:55 AM »
Quote
I once rebuilt a motor (before I joined) because of some "transmission noise" that ended up being a kick starter ratchet that could have been replaced with the bike in the frame   

Seriously though, I bet you know a heck of lot more about the internals now, certainly more than I do.  ;)
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline ohiocaferacer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
  • www.OHIOCAFERACERS.com
    • OHIO CAFE RACERS
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2006, 05:31:14 AM »
I bet you know a heck of lot more about the internals now, certainly more than I do.  ;)

Internals........I gotz internals ;D

Pics from the CB350RR rebuild....god I love rebuilding these!!




swamprat

  • Guest
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2006, 07:26:22 AM »
Welcome, this site will prove to be the best reference you can have, but books and pictures help a hell of a lot.  My rebuild came with an engine that was completely rebuilt before I picked up the boxes of parts and brought them home. Which was a good thing.  I took a ton of picture and bought the biggest ZipLock bags I could find to put different components in as I tore it down.  I labeled each bag with what it was and where it came from.  You will be scratching you head wonder where some things came from when you go back together with it.  I also kept a log of what I did and things that might come in handy when I put it back together.  That has helped tremendously in the reassebly.  Someone memtioned deciding what you want to end up with, stock, chopped, etc.  I started as a stock rebuild and it wasn't until after I painted the frame, tank and swingarm that I changed my mind.  Not good, I would have cut alot of tabs and other things off the frame in the begining if I had thought a bit more.
Get ready to be frustrated, and excited.  There is nothing like standing back, looking a what you have done and enjoying the moment.  An old biker friend of mine told me when I bought the basket case, "you're going to fall in love with it!"  He was right.  Have fun.  Post some pictures.  Keep us posted.  Ebay is an excellent source for used parts.

Offline ohiocaferacer

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 616
  • www.OHIOCAFERACERS.com
    • OHIO CAFE RACERS
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2006, 07:57:52 AM »

THE SHIFTER LINKAGE WAS INSTALLED IN A SUCH A WAY THAT IT WAS AT THE END OF ITS TRAVEL WHEN TRYING TO SHIFT UP!


I cant tell you how many times i've been contacted or actually fixed CB350s that supposedly had bad transmissions. Went to go look at one a friend had......told me he wanted me to come pick it up and rebuild the transmission(motor)....wouldnt shift out of first gear. Pulled up..took one look at the foot shift levers and saw it right away. Fixed it for free in 10mins......he was HAPPY!!  ;D

That linkage must be adjusted just right or you cant shift it.

Later,
« Last Edit: February 03, 2006, 07:59:38 AM by ohiocaferacer »

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2006, 08:21:13 AM »
550_ko,

Maybe you and I could start our own little club.  ;D
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline clarkjh

  • Expert? If only.
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,385
  • Surely and Samson are now Co-habitating
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2006, 12:01:16 PM »
550_ko,

Maybe you and I could start our own little club.  ;D

Depending on how honest people are, it could very BIG club ;D ;D ;D


Haven't started to put mine back together yet, still cleaning.  So I'm crossing my fingers when I do.

James
SOHC/4 #3328
SOHC/4 Gallery: http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/clarkjh/
1974 CB550, 40000 Miles
1980 GL1100, 102789 KM - Back on the road after a complete engine rebuild. 
*** Why, oh why, is it always head gaskets with me?***

Offline Patrick

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,398
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2006, 06:24:15 PM »
I really would suggest you take the engine completely apart before you try to run it.  I lot of things can be wrong inside the engine that can cause a lot more damage, depending on how long it has been sitting. If you have dry or corroded bearings, for instance, you can fry the crankshaft. A small repair becomes a major job. I haven't had much chance since spring to work on my 1975 CB750 K because I got involved with some other engines. I decided in spring to restore a vintage dirt bike just for fun. Rebuilt a 1974 Suzuki TS250 just for dirt and trails. When my son saw it he had to have one, so I spent some time on a 1969 DT1, another 250. When my second son saw the first two bikes, he decided maybe riding two wheels wasn't so crazy anymore. I ended up getting a 1979 Suzuki TS20, which I going to keep and give him the 1974. Anyway, I digress. I discovered that the longer you let one of these old bikes sit, the more things that can dry out or corrode. Most have been worked on extensively, at least once, with varying amounts of skills on the part of the previous mechanics. I bearing can ruin a crank, a rusty cylinder can ruin a rod, and that can get the crank. A cylinders do rust, even if the bike is intact and seems to have been stored inside. I've encountered that. Take that sucker apart, you can save a lot of grief later on. I wish I had done that with the Yamaha. But I was anxious to feel it move cause it's such a neat little sucker. Real low for a dirt bike. I justified it by telling myself that would predict the scope of work needed. I might have saved myself a crank and a fourth gear pinion. It's finally a sweet little buzzbomb. At least disassmble it sufficiently to turn every thing by hand.

But I consider this fun, so it isn't a nuisance to me to totally tear one down. I just wish it were a bit easier to find parts for these ancient bikes. I'll likely start taking by chopper - OK, staid old lady - apart again this spring. It runs really well, but I can think of a few things I thing I can do  better this time.

Have fun. Where in Texas are you, Novice?

Patrick
1970 CB750 K0
1982 VF750S Sabre
1987 VT1100 Shadow
1979 Yamaha XS11
1969 Yamaha DT1B
etc.

Gibson

  • Guest
Re: Complete novice starting on an old 350
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2006, 08:11:14 PM »
Remember though migh not be a thing wrong with the motor just something stupid closed piont's ect.