Topic: James' 77 550f.

[lone*X]

ok cool.....I have just noticed that people have alot more love for the 400's and not so much for 550's....and I'm not sure why.

~Joe

[luceja]

ok cool.....I have just noticed that people have alot more love for the 400's and not so much for 550's....and I'm not sure why.

~Joe

I think it's mostly the small stuff that gets people - the tank, the seat style, the bars being a little lower. Stock it's just a little "catchier" looking I guess. My intention is to build the 550 how I want it and once it's a good running bike, part with the 400.

[luceja]

Picked up the 550 cylinders and pistons on ebay for 80$. It's a risk that they were bored badly, are out of round, etc. Will need to measure and see if I wasted 80$. Just taking a risk and betting on that, I guess.

Still need to get the damn case split - Can't get the clutch cover off for the life of me. About half the bolts are still in there with the heads drilled off (not me - previous owner), but my understanding is that there isn't any thread on these that would be touching the cover and holding it on. Soaked the gasket and bolt holes in PB blaster.. time for a bigger hammer?

Once I can get that and the rotor off, I'll find out what demons lurketh within.

Meanwhile, I've decided the following two images sum up my goals for this bike:

This is the 'amount' of non-stockness and cleanness I'm shooting for-



But I want to steal alot of the cues and style bits from this bike, like the off white/brown color scheme. I probably won't clear out the center because I don't really want to deal with pods, jetting, etc yet...

[Aladinsane07]

That Yamaha reminds me of "the architect's" build.  There's def alot of great styling cues to be borrowed from this bike.



http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=63166.100

[luceja]

That Yamaha reminds me of "the architect's" build.  There's def alot of great styling cues to be borrowed from this bike.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=63166.100

Thanks for posting that - I definitely agree and dig that look. It always takes a while to absorb all the details of what was done right.

I got another set of cylinders and pistons which hopefully are usable, but have been on the road for weeks. I figure this 550f project will go through the winter and I'm super stoked to follow it through.

[luceja]

Now that the rain has started, back to work on the ole' 550. The acquisition of a dead blow hammer got the clutch cover off, and I got the alternator rotor bolt off by using a tiedown to hold the rotor. Once I get the rotor off (find a puller or 16x1.5 bolt?) I can split the case and look everything over.

Here's a mental checklist of steps.. any input here definitely welcome

- split case, see if there's any problems, wear issues, chunks of metal, corrosion, etc.
- remove head studs and get top of block surfaced (? not sure if this is really needed or if I should just do a good job cleaning the surface up - need to do homework)
- clean up corrosion on cam lobes or find new 550/650 cam
- confirm that the cylinders and pistons are good to use
- get all new gaskets.. other bits that should be replaced?

hoping to have this thing rolling by spring.

[paulages]

By the way, you don't have to pull the rotor to split the cases...

[luceja]

By the way, you don't have to pull the rotor to split the cases...

I was going by the shop manual and asked myself "why the hell would have I have to pull the rotor?". My instinct to take everything apart sort of just won. Abort!

[luceja]

Got the case apart using the two-little-pieces-of-wood-and-a-bolt method.



Bearings look good (to me at least)



There's lots of oxided gunk on everything but it doesn't look like there's corrosion where it matters, like where the pins go through the rods -



I pulled the countershaft off and dissembled it to clean it up - the big concern is that it's obviously very gritty in the bearing and the only thing I can think of is soaking this thing through and coaxing the gunk out...



and there's pitting on a few of the 2nd and 5th countershaft teeth. It isn't as bad as this looks, but still a concern. Anyone think this is a serious issue?





the plan is to just take everything apart, scrub all the crap of of everything and put it back together with new seals and gaskets..

[luceja]

decided that pitted gears and grody transmission shaft bearings would be stupid to use since I'm basically rebuilding the motor. found a 550f tranny set on ebay for 30$ - done.

I realized that I'll want to replace the seal that's living on the crank behind the alternator rotor.. so I'm thinking I still want to get that off.

Meanwhile I'm basically just stripping the motor down, cleaning the gunk off and examining things. Since the rods feel like they are spinning very cleanly on the crank, I would rather not take them off.
 
Doing my homework to try and make sure I'm doing everything I should now that the motor is stripped down. If anyone has any good threads to recommend, I'm all ears.

After putting lots of miles on the 400f this summer, I'm really, really looking to having a slightly bigger bike with a bit more displacement. I'm using a computer I put together, I play in a band using a guitar that I made, and damnit, I want to have a motorcycle I built myself.

[luceja]

definitely glad I split the case and ebayed the extra transmission. The ebay transmission is perfect, and when I went to pull the shift forks from the motor, they were frozen to their shafts. It required a day of contemplating, reading, prying, and returning to the garage to figure out how to free them. When I realized that the one fork is held in with a pin which needs to magically fall out in order to remove the fork and shaft, I figured I was screwed, since everything is coated in rust and frozen and there was no way it was just going to come out from gravity. Magnet? Suction? The Force?

I pb blasted everything and tried putting a drill bit to the pin, hoping that would let me pull it out, but the pin is made of some solid metal and the bit was just getting killed without making a dent. Luckily the drill bit got the pin spinning in it's hole, so I cleaned up the gunk in the hole, turned the case on it's side, and just shook and knocked it for an eternity until the pin had come out just enough to pull the fork off. Hallelujah. What the hell are you supposed to do when this pin is totally frozen? Just get destructive, I guess.






useless helper.

[paulages]

useless helper.

teach that dog to get you a beer from the fridge! i've been meaning to teach anna that one for a while now...

[luceja]

teach that dog to get you a beer from the fridge! i've been meaning to teach anna that one for a while now...

Not gonna happen. She got no job, no degree, and she just lays around all day. I don't know why I put up with it.

[luceja]

On a more serious note, I spent all evening cleaning up the surfaces on the top half of the engine case. Looking closely at the crank bearings, there's little dimples/imperfections and I'm concerned that I'll be in for more trouble than I was hoping.

That being said, Paul, I'd love to bring the case over if you aren't too busy and get your 2c on the bearings. Unlike my worthless dog, I am capable of returning a favor with a beer here and there.

[paulages]

On a more serious note, I spent all evening cleaning up the surfaces on the top half of the engine case. Looking closely at the crank bearings, there's little dimples/imperfections and I'm concerned that I'll be in for more trouble than I was hoping.

That being said, Paul, I'd love to bring the case over if you aren't too busy and get your 2c on the bearings. Unlike my worthless dog, I am capable of returning a favor with a beer here and there.

yeah, no problem. I'll be there in the afternoon tomorrow. gimme a call or text.

I'm gonna go work on anna and the beer trick now. 

[luceja]

Daydreamed and played with photoshop while I pick away at the motor work.

I'm wondering if I can shave the stock seat foam down an inch or so, and bring the back in a few inches, and have a smaller/lower seat but retain the hinge/lock/storage convenience of the stock seatpan.







I like the idea of filling in the 'HONDA' imprint on the tank and using a decal like this..

[luceja]

I came across another 77 550f parked in portland and realized I've never actually seen a stock-ish one in person. (It was pretty stock except for things like clip ons, cafe-ish seat, etc) I was concerned that I wasn't going to be a fan of the 550 tank and dimensions compared to 400f, but looking at and sitting on this one (sorry owner) I am more stoked than ever to build this bike - I think the dimensions and lines are actually nicer than the 400f.

At this point there's only a few questions I have about what I want the bike to be - really just what rims and seat I want to use. Maybe it's a shame that I'm going through the entire bike and not doing any significant performance improvements when it would be just as easy as putting the bike back together stock. I used to be into cars / autocross, and took performance mods there really seriously, but with bikes, I'm not really an advanced rider who would really appreciate performance improvements. I just want a solid, good looking bike that I can take out of the city and rip around and enjoy for a day.

Given that bit of inspiration, I went and finished pulling all the bits out of the cases and cleaning the halves. I scrubbed the mating surfaces of the cases with a brass brush, which doesn't seem to be harming the aluminum. I platigauged the main crank bearings and all 5 were within tolerances, so the only clearances left to check are the camshaft and check that my pistons and cylinders are going to work.

yay for clean:



pile o' transmissions:



Making a mental shopping checklist for assembling a running motor, I see that it's time to start shelling out the cash:

to do:
- plastigauge cam clearances
- measure and confirm my ebayed pistons/cylinders are usable
- inspect and if necessary get the cylinder side of the head gasket surfaced
- clean up and inspect the cylinder base mating surfaces
- clean up exhaust manifold and have it coated
- assemble, clean exterior and paint the engine
- put engine in frame

junk to buy:
- full gasket set
- all the oil seals I can find.. some of mine are pretty soft or deteriorating
- new cam chain, tensioner/guides
- air filter, oil filter, new oil filter bolt (I had to kill mine to remove it)
- electronic ignition/coils/wires (need to research more.. dyna s? appropriate ohms, etc)
- replace cracked tapped cover
- a variety of bolts that I had to drill and extract
- clean/rebuild carbs
- find appropriate muffler

I'm probably going order what I can from DSS and pay their premium, since they've got so much of this stuff all in one place.

The one thing I'm worried about is that main chain I pulled out of the motor had some corrosion, but it appears to only be on the outside of two links, so I'm thinking I can get away with it:



On one last note, I got in touch with Ginger at New Church about either getting my stock seat recovered or just making a new one. Her stuff looks really, really awesome (http://newchurchmoto.blogspot.com/), but I still don't know if I want to try and use the stock pan and cut the foam down a bit or just make a pan.. I'd love the usability of the stock seat/hinge/lock, but damn is that one big, fat, long seat.

[paulages]

Ginger does great work. She worked at Langlitz until a few weeks ago. She did my seat, and is doing the travel cover for my boat right now. She's a good friend and I highly recommend her.

[luceja]

I had ignored the clutch until last night - the parts of the plates that were lower down were frosty with rust, and still show some pitting after being cleaned with a wire wheel. Before/after the wire wheel and a wipe down:





My instinct is that after cleaning up, the plates are OK to use, since the plates appear to have pits designed into them anyway, but if anyone thinks I should be ditching the plates and find a new one, I'm all ears. I'm more concerned about the state of the friction disc material- sitting in whatever awful brine was in that case, lord knows what's happened to their chemical composition.

I went through the manual and listed every single wear/clearance I need to check and every gasket, seal, or o ring that I could replace. Now I need to get some proper measurement tools (who I'm rebuilding a motor without them, I don't know) and take it from there.

[paulages]

James,

If they spec out and are flat, I usually bead blast the metal plates to de-glaze them and get the "bite" back. You're welcome to use my bead blaster, but I leave for Europe tomorrow and won't be back for three weeks.

[luceja]

I actually went and bought some rinky-dink bead blasting junk from harbor freight today which I'd be glad to return because it's all one-time use stuff. If it's all the same to you, I'll hit you up when you get back and bring some media to donate. I assume you guys are on tour- I saw you have a Paris show, etc - rad. Enjoy the trip!

[paulages]

I actually went and bought some rinky-dink bead blasting junk from harbor freight today which I'd be glad to return because it's all one-time use stuff. If it's all the same to you, I'll hit you up when you get back and bring some media to donate. I assume you guys are on tour- I saw you have a Paris show, etc - rad. Enjoy the trip!

Thanks! see you when I get back.

[Stev-o]

What do you think about this seat? [It's for a 750, but they make 'em for the 550 too]


http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/1955653834.html

[fastbroshi]

Something about that hump doesn't look right to me

[luceja]

I think I'll end up fiberglassing a really simple seatpan and making a smaller than stock, but not cafe seat. It'll be a pain in the ass to do, and I'll give up the latch/hinge, but I'll end up with lower and shorter seat with lots of padding that follows the bike's lines well. I've sat and looked at the frame and stock seat about thirty times and I can't really figure out how to make the seat I want without using fiberglass or learning metal fabrication.