Topic: Rider Down

[xenoscr]

I'm not going to let it stop me. You've got to be alert at all times. I went down in a set of 90 degree opposite turns at the end of last season. Made it through the first OK and caught some dirt in the second. Didn't get scrapped up to bad, crushed my foot pretty good though, no bones broke but they where crushed so badly I had a limp for most of the winter. I would have been fine if the bike hadn't landed on my foot, I think it got pinched between the peg and the frame as I went down. I was quite nervous in corners when spring came back around, it took a few rides to regain my confidence. Since then I've nearly been hit several times, mostly by morons that don't stop at stops signs and lights like they should. We've also got a lot of round-abouts in my area... those suck, I've had cars and trucks cut me off several times, you do not want to have to nail the brakes going around one of those, so far I've managed to stay upright.

XeNoSCR

It does seem like roundabouts are popping up everywhere!
i almost got smoked on Ronald Reagan parkway last fall by some guy that didnt feel like the stop sign was of much importance.  It was a brakes or throttle decision.. i chose throttle and it saved me. 

I go through 5 round-abouts each way to and from work. You have to scan well ahead and take them slow for sure. Overall they've improved the flow of traffic but I've had 3 cars pull right out in front of me a couple at pretty high speed and plenty of drivers like to stop at the yield signs when there are clearly no cars anywhere to be seen. I'm surprised I don't see more fender-benders in these things.

XeNoSCR

[dhall57]

About six years ago a friend not a close friend, but a friend never the less crashed his Harley Road King. He had the mind set that it was a free country and it should be his decision not the the governments if he wore a helmet and that bad choice cost him his life. Myself and another guy went to pick up his bike. Expecting the bike to be a total wreck we were shocked at what good shape the bike was still in. Bent bars, broke turn signal, and scratched paint. The cops said if he had been wearing a DOT approved helmet instead of a brain catcher novelty helmet more than likely he would of walked away with just a  severe case of road rash. The worst thing was his teenage son was riding behind him on his on bike and saw his dad die right in front of him. What a waste of a life. WEAR A HELMET

[wdhewson]

As an older and higher mileage motorcyclist, with some safety training from working in the explosives industry, I sometimes get asked about the dangers of riding and how to manage these risks.

Here is part of my standard answer.

Imagine a room full of 20 people who don't know each other, and everyone has a cocked and loaded pistol or rifle.  It is your job to keep your weapon pointed in a harmless direction, and to make sure that you don't position yourself in front of anybody else's weapon.  And the direction of pointing and the people are moving around the room the whole time in a dynamic situation.  You can survive this with continued, uninterrupted, and prolonged cat-like hypervigilance.  In other words, lots of eye movement and no day dreaming.  If you've got the mental faculties for this hypervigilance and are not intellectually lazy, then get a motorcycle and go for a ride.   If not, then don't ride.

But risk cannot be managed to zero.

[Gaither]

What a great bunch of men! Good, meaningful comments and advice, tempered with concern for all.

Yes, there is always risk. And the best we can do doesn't always leave us in control to the situation. There will always be some thoughtless, irresponsible idiot messing up our game. Too many of 'em simply don't care. But, as you know, there is another aspect to the problem

I like the "invisible" approach "no one can see me". I try to ride that way. But too many times they really do not see us. As you all know, they are mentally looking for cars and trucks. Motorcycles just don't register in their brain/s.

Having been a rider, I always try to watch for motorcycles. But, years ago it happened to me, too!

I looked 3 times and "saw" a clear road. As I pulled out I heard a "beep". I kept accellerating as I  immediatly hit the shoulder to let the bike come on by me. I simply had not mentally registered the bike. It made me feel terribly stupid [told the guy how sorry I was later]. But it taught me first-hand just how a lot of people kill riders like us.

Another thing it taught me is BLOW THE HORN! If the guy hadn't hit his horn, I wouldn't have known he was there. I had mentally registered a clear road. Now, I hit the horn if there is any doubt of my being seen. Who cares if they like it or not. Being seen is what is paramount!

FWIW, I started at 13. I rode like an idiot! Young and insane! At 23 I finally decided I couldn't continue to ride and live. I Never went down but twice - unhurt. But I've seen countless times I should have crashed badly but somehow got through it. So, I quit riding to live! That was in 1960 [yep, I'm an old man].

In April, '09 I bought a '77 Cb550F. I love the bike - although I still think they are tall and heavy. I took the Mororcycle Safety Course before ever getting on the bike [49 years is a long time]. Yeah, I get out there with 'em. But all that crazy stuff is gone out of the old man. I do avoid rush-hour traffic and interstates.

My biggest fears are left-turners and the pull-outers. One thing the Safety Courst taught me is to watch their front tire/wheel. If they are coming, the tire and wheel will show more movement than the rest of the vehicle - just as they begin to move.

Thanks for letting me ramble. By now you've realzed what I think is worth almost what it cost you.

At any rate, this is a great, very informative forum. I appreciate it more than I can tell you. I continue to learn a LOT and thank each of you for that.

May we all ride safely with a wide grin!

[Lenny55]

What a great bunch of men! Good, meaningful comments and advice, tempered with concern for all.

Yes, there is always risk. And the best we can do doesn't always leave us in control to the situation. There will always be some thoughtless, irresponsible idiot messing up our game. Too many of 'em simply don't care. But, as you know, there is another aspect to the problem

I like the "invisible" approach "no one can see me". I try to ride that way. But too many times they really do not see us. As you all know, they are mentally looking for cars and trucks. Motorcycles just don't register in their brain/s.

Having been a rider, I always try to watch for motorcycles. But, years ago it happened to me, too!

I looked 3 times and "saw" a clear road. As I pulled out I heard a "beep". I kept accellerating as I  immediatly hit the shoulder to let the bike come on by me. I simply had not mentally registered the bike. It made me feel terribly stupid [told the guy how sorry I was later]. But it taught me first-hand just how a lot of people kill riders like us.

Another thing it taught me is BLOW THE HORN! If the guy hadn't hit his horn, I wouldn't have known he was there. I had mentally registered a clear road. Now, I hit the horn if there is any doubt of my being seen. Who cares if they like it or not. Being seen is what is paramount!

FWIW, I started at 13. I rode like an idiot! Young and insane! At 23 I finally decided I couldn't continue to ride and live. I Never went down but twice - unhurt. But I've seen countless times I should have crashed badly but somehow got through it. So, I quit riding to live! That was in 1960 [yep, I'm an old man].

In April, '09 I bought a '77 Cb550F. I love the bike - although I still think they are tall and heavy. I took the Mororcycle Safety Course before ever getting on the bike [49 years is a long time]. Yeah, I get out there with 'em. But all that crazy stuff is gone out of the old man. I do avoid rush-hour traffic and interstates.

My biggest fears are left-turners and the pull-outers. One thing the Safety Courst taught me is to watch their front tire/wheel. If they are coming, the tire and wheel will show more movement than the rest of the vehicle - just as they begin to move.

Thanks for letting me ramble. By now you've realzed what I think is worth almost what it cost you.

At any rate, this is a great, very informative forum. I appreciate it more than I can tell you. I continue to learn a LOT and thank each of you for that.

May we all ride safely with a wide grin!

 
Great post!

[faux fiddy]

Wow, I must have done a psychological wipeout of this one or I'd have posted the story....

A couple years ago I heard what sounded like someone revving up a motor in their driveway, like  serious v-8 redline that wasn't under a load. Thought  it was just neighbors revv-ing it up in the  driveway. Then heard a  huge loud metallic crash. I could not see a thing other than a guy was writhing around on the sidewalk in the neighbor's lawn. I made it straight to the phone to call 9-11 still not knowing what exactly happened.

I came back out with the phone, and started talking to the guy, to make sure he stayed concious. One of his feet  was  pointed in an un-natural direction, and I later found out he broke his femur. He had no helmet, but his head appeared uninjured. My dad came out, and we tried to shade him with a blanket whild the ambulance was on the way, as it was pretty hot out.

Apparently he had turned on our street thinking it was a long straight, but it has a dogleg and a stop sign. Scratches on the pavement showed he laid it over 50 ft or more from where he ended up on the sidewalk. He must have held on to the throttle as he laid it down, hence  the reving I heard must have been with the back tirein the air.

The bike hit the curb and flipped, and the crash I heard was it comming  down on the hood of the neighbor's pickup truck. I was surprised they didn't total the truck. It was a Kawasaki v-twin cruiser, looked to be over 600 lbs.

I heard the guy, younger kid, came out okay other than a broken femer and road rash, but this was a solo deal, the only  one to blame was himself for being wreckless.

I scoured my dad's computer to find some pics to post, I know they are there somewhere, Maybe I can find them and when I do I can post them.  It was a pretty impressive landing.

[asom]

"My biggest fears are left-turners and the pull-outers. One thing the Safety Courst taught me is to watch their front tire/wheel. If they are coming, the tire and wheel will show more movement than the rest of the vehicle - just as they begin to move."
-Gaither Bilbrey


never thought of this.  I think I will be adding this to the safety repertoire.

[axehole54]

About six years ago a friend not a close friend, but a friend never the less crashed his Harley Road King. He had the mind set that it was a free country and it should be his decision not the the governments if he wore a helmet and that bad choice cost him his life. Myself and another guy went to pick up his bike. Expecting the bike to be a total wreck we were shocked at what good shape the bike was still in. Bent bars, broke turn signal, and scratched paint. The cops said if he had been wearing a DOT approved helmet instead of a brain catcher novelty helmet more than likely he would of walked away with just a  severe case of road rash. The worst thing was his teenage son was riding behind him on his on bike and saw his dad die right in front of him. What a waste of a life. WEAR A HELMET

A full face helmet and nothing but nothing bad azz about head injuries... guy I know had to get a partial labotomy from a pocket bike accident... doesn't matter how fast or slow you go wear it

[the technological J]

one of the things i think about often when i hear about accidents is that we (some of us) drive less visible vehicles pretty fast and if some one was to pull out in front of us while we were out of sight and we come whipping up around a bend and connect with them... then are we totally innocent and it was the big bad stupid ignorant car riders fault?  or how many times have we gone to turn some where and find ourselves in second gear instead of first and spend and extra half a sec in the oncoming lane correcting the error....  i just missed an accident where a guy didnt make it across the lane and suspect thats what he did ... ended up paying the ultimate price for it..... just some observations and food for thought.... its slowed me down

[dave500]

yeah thegabrielj,slow down a little and give yourself a chance to be seen,mgbgt89 ,when we rode dirt bikes and "dropped it"mostly we were unhurt,we had a thing where we would have to get straight back on, back track a little then ride the section again,i dont know how we started this ,it became an unwritten law,this was like on all day trail riding,yeah gaither,i dont like freeways either,i dont need to ride on them so i dont but have,and get rid of any meep meep horn and get a good pair that blast better,you have to be taken seriously,ive got the narva"fanfare"set.

[Hush]

One thing no one mentioned so far (maybe because it's law in some states?) but riding with your light "ON" makes you so much more visible to car drivers.
As many have said on this subject, they don't see us because they don't expect to, light on and there is no excuse.
I've always ridden with the headlight on since I was a teenager, many of my mates sed at it but many of them are now dead too!
It has just become law here in New Zealand that bikes post 1980 must have their front light on at all times when being ridden....it took a long time for that to come!

[faux fiddy]

One thing no one mentioned so far (maybe because it's law in some states?) but riding with your light "ON" makes you so much more visible to car drivers.
As many have said on this subject, they don't see us because they don't expect to, light on and there is no excuse.
I've always ridden with the headlight on since I was a teenager, many of my mates s<deleted>ed at it but many of them are now dead too!
It has just become law here in New Zealand that bikes post 1980 must have their front light on at all times when being ridden....it took a long time for that to come!

Lights on 24-7 ha beenthe law forall bikes here in the heartland for at least since '80, for every bike wih a motor.

Picking my brain now, there was that other crash I was first on the scene before the  authorities. First days of the '80's superbikes you'd hear racing like there was no tomorrow.

I talked with an elderly couple who were going around a slight  s- shaped  jog in the road, and how fast I don't know, but I bet the [ninja was the thing in those days] throttle was opened up ALL THE WAY for at most  a quarter mile. The old couple , they were both okay, but shaken. The motorcycle was buried in the grill of their car ( a '78 nova if I remember correct) and the  motorcyclist was buried days later.

[dave500]

not sure hush on the lights law here in australia,my neighbours mid 90 suzi is on with the key,so you have to crank with the light on,umm,maybe in a few states here,i mostly have mine on high beam!

[CBXJOHN]

My Son is a relatively new VA state trooper, he had his first motorcycle DOA the other day. Photographed the wreck, victim, etc. He just sent a check for my friend's CBR 954, it didn't phase him much. As I tell him, motorcycles are like firearms, you've got to be 100% in the game to use them. And If I had to choose, I think guns are safer. With the grace of God, I've been riding 38 years with only a few minor mishaps. I still love hopping on my RC 51, 54 isn't old!

John

[xenoscr]

Locked up my rear wheel less than 500 feet from my own driveway when a car backed out full speed in front of me this morning. I was going under 20mph and had my light on, you simply have to pay attention. It can happen any time, anywhere.

XeNoSCR

[Hush]

"You all be careful out there you hear"!

[MickeyX]

I read a study about a year ago that tested why even well lit bikes and wearing bright colors still doesn't catch people's attentions on the road... your brain, since you were young has been programmed to pay attention to wide things, not vertical things... like this... the buildings around you, the signs, the poles... they are thin and vertical and they don't move... not a threat... the cars, trucks, trains... horizontal... they move and can hit you... so your brain gives them more importance compared to all of the other things going on around you at the moment. Also, it is harder to tell how fast something is moving when coming right at you and it's thin because it's size/dimensions don't change as much as a car or truck as it approaches. They see you and assess on how much your size is changing, not necessarily how much ground you've covered in that amount of time. People have a false sense of having more time to pull out in traffic when they do see you.

They're advice was to make yourself wider... with light bars to expand your bike horizontally, wear bright colors and slow down a touch when approaching someone who wants to merge onto your street so they have the extra split second of mental time to process your speed more accurately. then again, we've seen a big difference this year in traffic accidents in general due to new law that makes it illegal to drive and talk on the cell being held up to your ear.

[bluezboy]

What a great bunch of men! Good, meaningful comments and advice, tempered with concern for all.

Yes, there is always risk. And the best we can do doesn't always leave us in control to the situation. There will always be some thoughtless, irresponsible idiot messing up our game. Too many of 'em simply don't care. But, as you know, there is another aspect to the problem

I like the "invisible" approach "no one can see me". I try to ride that way. But too many times they really do not see us. As you all know, they are mentally looking for cars and trucks. Motorcycles just don't register in their brain/s.

Having been a rider, I always try to watch for motorcycles. But, years ago it happened to me, too!

I looked 3 times and "saw" a clear road. As I pulled out I heard a "beep". I kept accellerating as I  immediatly hit the shoulder to let the bike come on by me. I simply had not mentally registered the bike. It made me feel terribly stupid [told the guy how sorry I was later]. But it taught me first-hand just how a lot of people kill riders like us.

Another thing it taught me is BLOW THE HORN! If the guy hadn't hit his horn, I wouldn't have known he was there. I had mentally registered a clear road. Now, I hit the horn if there is any doubt of my being seen. Who cares if they like it or not. Being seen is what is paramount!

FWIW, I started at 13. I rode like an idiot! Young and insane! At 23 I finally decided I couldn't continue to ride and live. I Never went down but twice - unhurt. But I've seen countless times I should have crashed badly but somehow got through it. So, I quit riding to live! That was in 1960 [yep, I'm an old man].

In April, '09 I bought a '77 Cb550F. I love the bike - although I still think they are tall and heavy. I took the Mororcycle Safety Course before ever getting on the bike [49 years is a long time]. Yeah, I get out there with 'em. But all that crazy stuff is gone out of the old man. I do avoid rush-hour traffic and interstates.

My biggest fears are left-turners and the pull-outers. One thing the Safety Courst taught me is to watch their front tire/wheel. If they are coming, the tire and wheel will show more movement than the rest of the vehicle - just as they begin to move.

Thanks for letting me ramble. By now you've realzed what I think is worth almost what it cost you.

At any rate, this is a great, very informative forum. I appreciate it more than I can tell you. I continue to learn a LOT and thank each of you for that.

May we all ride safely with a wide grin!

 
Great post!

    Wether I'm driving my car, school bus or my bike, I always treat other vehicles front wheel as the "Idiot  Button" because even if they're blabbering away on the phone, watching their front wheel is a clear indicator of what they are about to do. Great post!

[axehole54]

Clocking about 120k kilometers a year myself and i agree! i'm confident with my driving  and refuse to trust any other drivers on the road i easily avoid 2-3 accidents a week by watching what other drivers are doing... Try to make eye contact with anyone turning so i know they see me and never trust anyone's signal lights. And i always stay far enough back that i can stop faster than the person in front of me. Also watch the driver  two cars ahead  to watch for impending doom. Just my strategy and it seems to serve me well

[1timduke]

I live in San Diego and it's riding season all year long.   I also read the paper every day.   Every week there is a motorcylcist maimed or killed somewhere in the county. 
 
Lots of biker's riding on congested streets, lots of twisty mountain roads, lots of open highways beckoning to be challenged... I still feel the worst place to ride is right in front of my own house.   I could very easily take my mind off the road and think about what I'm gonna get for dinner or if I wanna ride down to the beach and see the sunset or whatever.
 
Whenever I think about doing something 'challenging' I think about my friends who have been killed doing either something dumb or being the victim of an idiot driver.   I also think about my Dad and the horrible scar on his leg.   I think about how much I love my wife and my family and how much I need to pay attention to what's going on.

Wear the gear, take the classes, read about motorcycling, ask questions, ride sober, ride safe.

Like my Dad told me, 'It's not a matter of if...it's when".


Great post!

-Tim   

[Gaither]

1timduke mentioned reading.

If you haven't already read it, "Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough is acclaimed far and wide. Hough really covers the subject from all aspects. It is, among other things, about staying alive.

It is filled with things you likely haven't thought of or perhaps have forgotten. It is never dull. I've read it 3 times over a year and, to keep myself reminded, will read it again. It sure made me a safer rider. Try it - you'll enjoy it and be glad you did.

You men have shared some good thoughts into this thread. Obviously, several heads are much better than one. We can never know enough nor be too careful.

Thanks.

[Thunder]

Years ago there was a device that you could connect to your headlight that would make it "flicker" , bright to dim and back, but at a high enough rate it was unnoticable when riding at night, studies they had done showed the movement caught drivers attention much more than a static light.

Haven't seen one for ages, you guys know about em?

[Hush]

Yep, it's called a lose earth!

[MickeyX]

 

[The_Crippler]

Good thread to start the riding season off for you guys in the Northern Hemisphere.

To start?  Hell, I've been riding for almost three months already!

But, to the topic at hand, I always say that I deal with it by trying to stay out of these threads.  They give me the willies...

Seriously, though, so many accidents out there are ones where the cagers don't see you.  You've just got to watch them all like they're lit sticks of dynamite strapped to rabid dogs.  Also, you have to just not be an idiot.  Got word from an old girlfriend back home the other day about her cousin dying on his bike.  Then I googled and had less sympathy: 

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/05/motorcyclist_dies_after_poppin.html