Author Topic: Sketchy ride  (Read 2165 times)

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manther

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Sketchy ride
« on: June 15, 2010, 08:49:53 PM »
Ever feel like your old honda feels sketchy at highway speeds (or any speed), compared to more modern bikes?
Ideas why?
Ideas about how to solve the problem?

Offline CBGhia

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 09:55:53 PM »
How are your tires?  Balanced? 

How about your bearings?  Shocks?  Fork oil and springs?

My bike feels pretty good at highway speeds.  Not as stable as my Ducati of course, but never unsafe.
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Offline mgbgt89

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 09:57:37 PM »
Buy a new bike?

Find out what makes your bike unstable. It could be any number of suspension components. Swingarm bushings, shocks, tires, fork oil, steering head bearings. No matter what you replace its not going to be as stable as a brand new bike. My buddies CBR doing 150 feels better than doing 85 on my CB650.

Offline Grnrngr

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 11:13:21 PM »
Heh...never had a more modern bike, wouldn't know.. :D  My current 72 750 Honda is a bit heavier than the 72 GT380 Suzuki I started with in high school, but I think maybe a little lighter than the 73 Yamaha TX 750 I had before moving here, I thought they all felt good on the road. The riding position and road feel is a bit different than my newer 83 Virago, but it's a different style of bike rather than a difference between older and newer...so by more modern, do you mean cruiser style? or sportbike? Dual sport?

But definitely, if you feel there are things unsafe about your current ride, don't wait to check it out...and if there are things you don't like, there are modern replacement parts,  like electronic ignition... braided steel brake lines...better tires...gel batteries
'72 CB750-K2 "PopCycle"
'73 CB750-K2 "Barney"
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'83 Virago 500 (black)

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Offline dave500

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 11:44:24 PM »
make sure there isnt a crack painted over on the frame or something,tyre pressure is often overlooked,triple trees tight?swing arm bush worn out?new bikes do feel better,but these old hondas dont feel dangerous or bad,again with mgbgt89 i had a ride on a mates late 90s yammy 600 r something and i was amazed how fast i was going and even cornering in comfort.

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 04:06:27 PM »
I definatley haven't done EVERYTHINg I could to help yet. Just curious, thought I'd like to hear everyone ideas, and stories.

Things I have done:
new tires
new tubes
balanced
trued


Things I'd like to check next.
Fork oil level, an new seals
all bearings, wheels, swingarm, head

Things that I was hoping to hear stories or advice on:
Some unknown frame issue
These are old bikes and it just doesn't get much better.

Offline SKTP

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 04:15:07 PM »
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
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Offline Grnrngr

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 04:55:02 PM »
Worn shocks and different levels of oil in the forks will definitely make it handle "sketchy"..if you're new to riding, changing the adjustment on the rear shocks, even when new, can make a noticable difference in the way it handles. You really haven't defined "sketchy".. are you having front end or rear end problems? handling problems or excessive bounciness? Why are you uncomfortable at freeway speeds?
'72 CB750-K2 "PopCycle"
'73 CB750-K2 "Barney"
'77 CB750A   
'83 Virago 500 (red)
'83 Virago 500 (black)

"and so on and so on and scoobydoobydooby..oooooooshasha"  Sly Stone

Offline MJL

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 05:25:34 PM »
Define "sketchy".

I don't know how to explain it, but my old F4 compared to my 750, well the F4 just felt boring at highway speed. The 750 keeps my attention.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline nancy

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2010, 09:29:51 PM »
If sketchy means what I descibe as "twitchy" - I shared the feeling for the 1st few months on my K3 750. I was a reborn rider after 30+ years of abstainence (spellcheck?).
By "twitchy" I mean - I felt unsafe as the bike felt as though it was balancing on a knife edge and that the rear and/or front ends felt like they were drifting, wandering and the rear definately would dance out of ruts in the highway surface. Solution?
I adjusted myself somewhat and became more confident. I read here somewhere from one of the trusty old scribes that share their wisdom with us - that motorcycle riding  is 10% skill and 90% confidence. Also, suggest you find & read Hondaman's article on cross-steering, as that technique has helped me a lot.
I have become more confident and feel less insecure. I now feel as I did 30 years ago. Over time I have remedied some issues to make my ride better: made sure the rear to front wheel alignment was right - I was out by half a mark on the rear swingarm ajustment and my front LHS fork was set 5-6mm higher than my RHS! Adjusted this at the top and bottom trees. Quite an improvement.  I removed, checked and regreased my steering head bearings - they were OK anyway. I dumped the tyres and got a new set with new inners. That last step made me feel a lot more confident. The old front inner had solidified blobs inside of something like tyre goop - Honda dealer said it was likely to have made for a less than comfy ride. So - I thnk my mental adjustment - confidence gain - was the significant issue.

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2010, 10:08:19 PM »
Worn shocks and different levels of oil in the forks will definitely make it handle "sketchy"..if you're new to riding, changing the adjustment on the rear shocks, even when new, can make a noticable difference in the way it handles. You really haven't defined "sketchy".. are you having front end or rear end problems? handling problems or excessive bounciness? Why are you uncomfortable at freeway speeds?

I'll have to get back to you on that definition. Haven't nailed it down to words yet.

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2010, 10:38:52 PM »
If sketchy means what I descibe as "twitchy" - I shared the feeling for the 1st few months on my K3 750. I was a reborn rider after 30+ years of abstainence (spellcheck?).
By "twitchy" I mean - I felt unsafe as the bike felt as though it was balancing on a knife edge and that the rear and/or front ends felt like they were drifting, wandering and the rear definately would dance out of ruts in the highway surface. Solution?
I adjusted myself somewhat and became more confident. I read here somewhere from one of the trusty old scribes that share their wisdom with us - that motorcycle riding  is 10% skill and 90% confidence. Also, suggest you find & read Hondaman's article on cross-steering, as that technique has helped me a lot.
I have become more confident and feel less insecure. I now feel as I did 30 years ago. Over time I have remedied some issues to make my ride better: made sure the rear to front wheel alignment was right - I was out by half a mark on the rear swingarm ajustment and my front LHS fork was set 5-6mm higher than my RHS! Adjusted this at the top and bottom trees. Quite an improvement.  I removed, checked and regreased my steering head bearings - they were OK anyway. I dumped the tyres and got a new set with new inners. That last step made me feel a lot more confident. The old front inner had solidified blobs inside of something like tyre goop - Honda dealer said it was likely to have made for a less than comfy ride. So - I thnk my mental adjustment - confidence gain - was the significant issue.

Cool, very interesting take on it. I have plenty of riding experience, most of it dirt, but this isn't my first street bike, and I've had this one for two years now. It's always been my around town bike, and I wanna get it out on the road some. I got a big camp out coming up, and I thought about taking it on my first long trip. I've never paid anyone to work on the 7 or so motorcycles I've owned until just this week. I took my k7 in to get the wheels balanced. (I had already tried balancing them on my own). Anyway they balanced them and trued my back wheel. They said the back wheel was actually pretty bad (un true, engines, carbs, wiring, forks I can work on, but know jack about wheels). I got on the highway and tried it out. I thought it felt alot better, but still scetchy. I read yall's replies and started going over the bike. I noticed two problems. One, the front fender is hitting the tire. Not bad but its a constant rub. I know how I'll fix that. Two my front brake is dragging (again). I'm gonna try adjusting it tommorow. I rebuilt that damn front brake and installed braided lines last summer. Another thing I don't like are the handgrips someone put on the bike. You've all seen them, they are cushy and have metal around the sides. Like this:
http://cdn2.ioffer.com/img/item/182/027/01/04_1.JPG
Anyway these types of handgrips make my hands feels too disconnected from the bars. Almost too comfortable. Anyway I think they look like crap too. I want either the stock OEM Honda hangrips or those ones that are somtimes called Gran Tourismo handgrips.
Anyway a few people said "define 'sketchy'". I'll have to do a few rides and redefine it since I just got the wheels balanced and trued, but one thing I remember in my short ride since then was the bike getting up to around 5 grand on the tach just to reach 60. (Of course this may have just been due to all the drag I have just found on the front end)

Before the balancing and truing stetchy would be defined as bouncy. I'd never take one of my hands off this bike. But like I said I bet a lot of the bounce may be gone now. 

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2010, 10:43:44 PM »
http://www.ikonsuspension.com/content/product_ranges/7610_series_shocks.shtml

these made a big difference on my bike

I've honestly thought about buying some brand new rear shocks. 1. They aren't expensive. 2. I got a little rust on mine now 3. They may help the ride.

Would like to find some with no black in them though.

Offline crazypj

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2010, 10:48:13 PM »
How far from stock is it?
 Ape hanger bars, 21" front wheel, long forks, will definitely make things feel weird.
wrong tyre sizes?
 I never liked 'export' (stock US) high bars on anything.
 Post a couple of pics of bike so we can see if there is anything glaringly wrong with it
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2010, 10:54:50 PM »
How far from stock is it?
 Ape hanger bars, 21" front wheel, long forks, will definitely make things feel weird.
wrong tyre sizes?
 I never liked 'export' (stock US) high bars on anything.
 Post a couple of pics of bike so we can see if there is anything glaringly wrong with it

Besides the tires, braided brake line, and hand grips. It's pretty stock. Or made to look stock anyway  ;)

Here's a thread I wrote a while back when I did a ton of work to it. Although it looked really clean when I bought it. It performed like crap.

There is a picture of it in the first post .
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385958

Offline crazypj

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2010, 11:32:45 PM »
scrap the hi-n-wide bars, they make front go 'light' around 60mph.
 New swing arm bearings, steering bearings (trust me, it needs them) and probably front wheel bearings
 Those particular shocks were junk when new, pretty close to zero damping from what I remember (probably be OK on a 125 after fitting light springs though)
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2010, 07:08:40 AM »
scrap the hi-n-wide bars, they make front go 'light' around 60mph.
 New swing arm bearings, steering bearings (trust me, it needs them) and probably front wheel bearings
 Those particular shocks were junk when new, pretty close to zero damping from what I remember (probably be OK on a 125 after fitting light springs though)

Anyone ever put stiffer springs in those stock forks so the bike still has a stock appearance? (I could also always use heavier weight fork oil.)

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2010, 07:13:10 AM »
Are shocks of this caliber/price junk?
http://www.superiormcsupply.com/kms-4.html

Offline Grnrngr

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 10:05:25 AM »
Nice bike!! Sounds like you've been riding enough to know what it should feel like, I'd be surprised if you don't think it's a lot better now that the tires are balanced, never had one on a bike, but I've had out of balance tires do some really weird things on cars. If the fender is rubbing and the brake's dragging, I'd definitely check to see that the fork tubes are straight and aligned properly, check the oil level in the forks too...wouldn't hurt to change it and the seals if you haven't done it for a while..ooops, I see that's already on your list. A little bit here, a little bit there, and it'll be fine. It won't feel like a road racer unless you put a road racer front end on it, if that's the feel you're looking for. Lower bars might help tho...As long as it's running right, I'd go camping!
'72 CB750-K2 "PopCycle"
'73 CB750-K2 "Barney"
'77 CB750A   
'83 Virago 500 (red)
'83 Virago 500 (black)

"and so on and so on and scoobydoobydooby..oooooooshasha"  Sly Stone

Offline crazypj

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2010, 10:08:19 AM »
Get some Progressive springs, don't know what they cost now but they were worth it
 Use stock weight fork oil but about 3/4" higher inside tube (springs out, forks collapsed)

PJ
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'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2010, 02:03:50 PM »
Cool, thanks. I have quite a few ideas now. I'll report back some day... If I remember.

manther

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2010, 12:10:47 AM »
I rode it 85 miles yesterday to get to the campsite. It felt good! A lot better sense I got the wheels worked on. I woke up today and took it through some isolated hillcountry. Opened it up a couple times. I have to admit, it was about 50% mental. But there is definatley still a shimmy when I let go with one hand. I'm gong to rebuild the front shocks, and maybe buy new rears.

Offline camelman

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2010, 12:43:55 AM »
I just fixed my last shimmy today.  I felt a small click through the handlebars whenever I stopped hard, and had a noticeable shimmy on the road.  It never upset the bike, but it was unnerving.  I pulled my upper triple tree today and tightened the head bearing down a bit more.  The click is gone, the shimmy is gone, and it feels even better than before.  If you notice a click in your handlebars during a hard stop, then it might be time for head bearing maintenance.  I had just replaced mine about 4000 miles ago, and I think the adjustment was required after they took their final set.

Regarding the dragging front brake and the tire hitting the fender, I suggest you look at the nut on the front axle.  It can go on two different ways (as long as it is similar to all the other CBs).  One way provides perfect operation.  The other way results in a dragging brake and the tire rubbing the fender.  Your issue might be something else entirely, but I've seen this a few times now.

Good luck,

Camelman
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Offline D

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2010, 11:19:45 PM »
My 650 is starting to shake worse at highway speeds 70-90mph. I can live with a little wobble but the front end wobbles more, especially when lane changing on the interstate. I assume it just needs all bearings replaced and I know fork seals need replacing. Is this the "sketchy" feeling you are describing?

Offline dave500

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Re: Sketchy ride
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2010, 11:25:17 PM »
lose those bars man,i feel dizzy looking at them.probably ok around town through traffic,,not really a high speed riding position with them,,like plenty here im an old dirt bike rider,i even had low and short bars on those.