Author Topic: honda 400/4 turbo  (Read 23515 times)

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Offline ivanhoew

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honda 400/4 turbo
« on: June 17, 2010, 12:27:58 AM »
good morning to the collective ..

 i just found this site ,and thought id ask if there would be any interest in a bike i built a while ago ,a 400/4 turbo .?if so i have it still so could take some pictures and answer questions  on it .  i built it in 1980 ,and it was my first turbo project .
regards
robert
oxon
england .
just do it .

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 03:26:49 AM »
Welcome Oxonian, of course we are interested, post away Rob.

Sam. ;)
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Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 11:20:26 AM »
hello sam ,

well , i had the bike as a stock 400/4 ,in 78, and was studying turbo charging ,so used it as my 1st test bed .
 i bought a new ihi rhb5/1 turbo,and built the manifold from the original exhaust system ,then made a inlet , from some aluminium box section . i originally connected this to the head with some thick rubber gaskets ..needless to say these blew out ,and its now fixed solidly with a smear of silicone .
for carburation i used a stromberg carb at first ,but then moved to a cv bike carb .timing was fixed at 24 degrees .
the head was ported ,and a 450 cc yoshimura big bore kit is fitted . i used a few extra base gaskets to lower compression ration to 8.5 to 1 .
one major design flaw ,was to use a bolt on the oil pump with a hole drilled down it and a lip in the top as the take off for the turbo ,which would have beeen ok if id used some proper oil pipe ,but i used that braided see through stuff ,and it shot off at about 60 mph uphill round a corner ,covering the rear tyre in oil ,so i ended up going up hill at 60 on full lock like a speedway bike ....but didnt fall off ,amazing .then pushed it 2 miles home .
some proper braided was aquired .
i had a few experiences of sending the piston rings down the exhaust as i learnt about detonation ,and was using 13 psi max ,and 13000 rpm .
 after i got the big bore kit its been fine ,and also it was benifitting from a better setup as i learnt my way during the  early 80's .

i did 10 000 miles on it despatch riding from high wycombe long distance .and ,apart from the occassional tendency for the carb to come off the turbo inlet , it was fine ,even got about 50 mpg .

on the dyno it had in the end ,85 bhp at 8500 rpm ,tihs was when the clutch gave up . pk power would have been around 10 000 rpm .;but the clutch had no hope .

regards robert .
just do it .

Offline NitroHunter

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 02:45:59 PM »
Very different and certainly sounds cool!
 Looking forward to some pics.
Robbie the NitroHunter                      Fuel Coupe Hired Gun                  NHRA T/F 640

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Offline Bamboozler

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 06:00:44 PM »
Welcome to the board Robert and thanks for sharing details on your turbo CB400!  The power you’re making has to make you smile. :)  Nice to hear you’ve been enjoying the bike since ’78.  Do you still have the bike and if so are there any plans to improve the clutch to lock down every bit of HP it’s giving you?
'78 CB750F Turbo, 101 rwhp @ 8 PSI (Project thread)
2007 Yamaha FZ1
'78 CB750F basket case crying for a resto
'78 XL250S
'78 Suk GS750E
Digital Ignition project (Project thread)

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 11:44:21 PM »
Welcome to the board Robert and thanks for sharing details on your turbo CB400!  The power you’re making has to make you smile. :)  Nice to hear you’ve been enjoying the bike since ’78.  Do you still have the bike and if so are there any plans to improve the clutch to lock down every bit of HP it’s giving you?

thank you both for the warm welcome ..

at the moment its wrapped up in a cobweb and wd40 cocoon ,ill try to take some pictures of it ,showing some of the detail ,but it looks a bit forlorn .

its been ecliped by my latest bike project , built in 2001 .

with regards to the clutch ,i did at the time put in bigger springs and then packed them out with washers ,so it has a pretty heavy lever ,but some kevlar plates might do it .maybe one day . id expect about 110 bhp to be available ,but then theory is nothing without proof lol.
just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 09:09:22 AM »
amazing story robert, not that many bikes doing 85 rwhp back then, you must have shocked a few lads while dispatching didnt ya?

that kind of power on stock 400 rods? wow.

what's the latest project you've done?

my hat's off  in any case!

TG


Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 09:37:36 AM »
pictures .






























thanks turboguzzi ,
the newer bike is a turbocharged intercooled cb 500 motor in a cagiva mito frame . you can have pics of that if you like but i thought it a bit modern and didnt want to commit a faux pas lol.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 09:46:29 AM by ivanhoew »
just do it .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 11:41:11 AM »
Robert, i am pretty sure we'll all love to see that 500 too!

there's one guy in italy that built a 200cc supercharged two stroke Mito BTW..... a few tens of thousands of euros invested there.

But yours is a very cute project, VERY hand made in a charming old school way, love it

TG


Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 12:17:03 PM »
Robert, i am pretty sure we'll all love to see that 500 too!

there's one guy in italy that built a 200cc supercharged two stroke Mito BTW..... a few tens of thousands of euros invested there.

But yours is a very cute project, VERY hand made in a charming old school way, love it

TG



thanks tg , it was a bit basic , i remember cutting out 2 1/4 inch plates and welding them togerther to make a 1/2 imch plate to go on the side of the turbo ,chain drilling is not fun .all welding was with an arc welder ..that was high tec in 1979 !

on my first despatch job , i had to ride into london going to minories other side of the city ... on the chiswick flyover the jet fell out of the stromberg carb ,in the bucketing rain .theres no kerb , so stuck it as close to the armco as possible ,and went and found the jet .  it was crushed flat with the tarmac by a lorry , so i had to jump out ,hack away at the rd with the tip of an adjustable spanner and then jump back when a lorry came ..finaly hacked out a hunk of rd with the jet in it .
then had to get off the flyover ,so pushed the bike in gear with my finger in the bottom of the carb , to stop the fuel torrenting forth ...while pressing the electric start !
it started and i clutchless gear changed until  i got off the flyover and could pull over ....where i then jammed the jet into the carb bottom and rode for an hour around chelsea trying to find the city !!! oh ,happy days

you know you had fun when you can remember such detail  30 years later !

just do it .

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 12:23:12 PM »
mito pics










just do it .

Offline wannabridin

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 12:41:37 PM »
that mito doesn't look like fun to work on!!!  cool bikes though, gotta love seeing 81 bhp out of a 400 and 130 BPH :o :o :o :o out of a 500!!!
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 12:47:00 PM »
never went that low, like digging jets out of the tarmac but i do remember hammering back into place a spark plug with some sheet cut off a soda can to hold it in place when the threads gave up the ghost in my 54' Matchless G80S in the middle of nowhere. thank god that people throw out cans out of their car's windows :)

circa 1980....

put some fairings on that thing and it'll be a real "sleeper"

Happy days? Looks like you are still something!

Way to go

TG

 

Offline Bamboozler

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 01:51:37 PM »
Awesome job at pulling some impressive numbers out of your turbo projects Robert!  Thanks for sharing, great job of working with what you had.  Is it me or did I see a tear coming from your 400/4 for not getting exercised as of late…  ;D

Your Mito looks like a blast to ride.  Any details of what’s done to the CB500 motor and what boost pressures you’re running on it?
'78 CB750F Turbo, 101 rwhp @ 8 PSI (Project thread)
2007 Yamaha FZ1
'78 CB750F basket case crying for a resto
'78 XL250S
'78 Suk GS750E
Digital Ignition project (Project thread)

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 11:25:58 PM »
thanks bamboozler ,
 on the 500 ,
i dropped to cr to 8.5:1  ,
 ported the head lightly ,
changed the cam timing ,
made a ignition system from a couple of audi and honda pickups , a single tooth on the pickup wheel ,then a couple of gm 4 pin modules going to a msd cdi box ,then 2 coil on plug hyabusa coils .this gives me fixed timing at 24 degrees .
carbs i jetted on the dyno ,ended up near stock .
the turbo is a t25 off a citroen panel van 2.5 diesel .
the intercooler is off a lancia thema 2 litre .
i made the piping from old f1 inconel exhaust pipe .
clutch has heavier springs ,but will slip in cold weather .
set the valve clearances bigger than stock on the exhaust to give more time for heat transfer .
think thats about it .


yes i think the 400/4 is pining , it is a hoot to ride . ;D
just do it .

Offline rudi

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2010, 11:32:45 PM »
Good Morning Ivanhoe,very interesting Story . One short Question : Are you willing to sell your Bike ?
I am from Germany, and interested to restore this Honda CB 400 F.

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2010, 10:32:25 AM »
Good Morning Ivanhoe,very interesting Story . One short Question : Are you willing to sell your Bike ?
I am from Germany, and interested to restore this Honda CB 400 F.
no rudi  its not for sale , i will definately get it on the rd again .thanks for the interest .
just do it .

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2010, 10:37:11 PM »
Awesome job at pulling some impressive numbers out of your turbo projects Robert!  Thanks for sharing, great job of working with what you had.  Is it me or did I see a tear coming from your 400/4 for not getting exercised as of late…  ;D

Your Mito looks like a blast to ride.  Any details of what’s done to the CB500 motor and what boost pressures you’re running on it?




the cb500 is running 15psi boost .
just do it .

Offline Bamboozler

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2010, 08:44:16 PM »
I have yet another question for ya Robert if ya don’t mind. :)  If I understand you correctly you’re running a fixed 24° timing across the board on the 500 motor; from idle to redline.  Seeing that you don’t have the typical stock timing curve from idle to full timing at ~2500rpm, do you notice any difference in how the motor behaves without the timing retard that comes with a stock timing curve (starting, idling, starting from a stop, acceleration to ~2500rpm)? 
'78 CB750F Turbo, 101 rwhp @ 8 PSI (Project thread)
2007 Yamaha FZ1
'78 CB750F basket case crying for a resto
'78 XL250S
'78 Suk GS750E
Digital Ignition project (Project thread)

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2010, 10:25:39 PM »
I have yet another question for ya Robert if ya don’t mind. :)  If I understand you correctly you’re running a fixed 24° timing across the board on the 500 motor; from idle to redline.  Seeing that you don’t have the typical stock timing curve from idle to full timing at ~2500rpm, do you notice any difference in how the motor behaves without the timing retard that comes with a stock timing curve (starting, idling, starting from a stop, acceleration to ~2500rpm)? 


i never had the cdi box for this engine bam, so cant compare ,,because the cr is down from 10.6 to 8.5:1 ,it tolerates the timing very well , it will plod along at low rpm in top ,say, down to 1800 rpm ,so is very flexible .
just do it .

Offline paulages

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2010, 11:30:02 AM »
never went that low, like digging jets out of the tarmac but i do remember hammering back into place a spark plug with some sheet cut off a soda can to hold it in place when the threads gave up the ghost in my 54' Matchless G80S in the middle of nowhere. thank god that people throw out cans out of their car's windows :)

circa 1980....

put some fairings on that thing and it'll be a real "sleeper"

Happy days? Looks like you are still something!

Way to go

TG

 

that reminds me of riding 30 miles or so in the middle of a downpour on remote logging roads, holding my left carb on with my hand, while doing all the riding with the right. the mounting bolts for the manifold had vibrated loose and were long gone...
paul
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1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
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1972 NORTON Commando Combat
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Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2011, 07:31:43 AM »
found some old pics of it in better shape ,so thought id add them .june 1981 i think .




just do it .

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2011, 08:57:58 AM »
Damn I thought you'd cleaned it for a minute :D :D :D :D  well have you ?  ;D

Sam. ;)
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CB92
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2011, 10:33:51 AM »
sweet sex bomb

can only imagine the shock of say, a z1 owner as the stoplights turned green  ::)

Offline ivanhoew

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Re: honda 400/4 turbo
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2011, 10:48:27 AM »
Damn I thought you'd cleaned it for a minute :D :D :D :D  well have you ?  ;D

Sam. ;)
haha thanks sam ,as i dont have enough to do !

trying hard to get this finished before i go to vancouver for a month in may ..




just do it .