Topic: Increase in ethanol content

[j4hfr34k]

here there are at least 1 if not two gas stations that provide no ethanol fuel for every one that does have it. ive started filling up at the no ethanol stations since reading this post.

[HondaMan]

Sounds like a good black market opportunity. Who'll ship me a 50 gallon drum of ethanol free gas to CA

Optionally, is there any way the home chemist can remove the ethanol from a 5 gallon storage container of gas?

Mix with water and then let sit until the saturated ethanol and water has settled to the bottom.  Then siphon off the gas from the top.  I'm not sure what this will do to the octane rating, though.  I have a 7gal glass carboy that I used to use for homebrewing that I plan on trying this with.   

You'll actually be able to SEE the alcohol and water at the bottom. It's pretty interesting. It also turns orange-brown after it mixes, making it easy to tell when it has drained out of the petcock on our tanks.

Here in Colorado, we're forced into it (since 1984). I only know of a couple of stations without it, too far from my house to help out. I change the fuel hoses about every 2 years: they are the first victims, getting so hard they can pull the brass tubes out of the petcock body (cut off the old ones!) during removal. The next item is the gaskets on the float bowls, if stock: the aftermarket ones are holding up longer (PartsNmore has them at $5 per set), I've noticed.

About every 2nd or 3rd tank, I add a capful of top oil (Bardahl, Wynn's, Seafoam, diesel type, any will do) and have found that my valve stems and guides have only worn 0.0012" over the 138,000+ miles of life. Not bad!

[BobbyR]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

[HondaMan]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Nope.

[Retro Rocket]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Nope.

Thats handy.....

Mick

[Johnie]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Nope.

Gosh Hondaman...was that the 10% ethanol blend? So it sounds like you get your tank lined and then drain it for the winter sleep.

[BobbyR]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Nope.

Well I guess terrorists will need to roate their stocks. I imagine I will convert my emergency genertartor to natural gas. 

[Gordon]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Nope.

I've been running my lawnmower on the gas I have in a 5gal can that's leftover from last Fall, so it's about 8 months old.  Granted it's just a lawnmower engine so it's not all that picky, but it's running just fine.  You positive that gas was only 3 months old? 

[CB750Ken8]

Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as hondamans experiment, Ethanol is just highly refined alcohol some where in the 175-200 proof range, and is an-hydrous (if I spelled that right) which means it absorbs water and self dilutes, ironically in the opposite way it was made which is to remove the water to get a higher content or percentage of alcohol, I tried to make my own ethanol about 6 months ago to use for fuel just because the thought of making your own fuel for around 10 dollars is a bit tempting.

I used some cheap 20 proof vodka from the store and a cheaply home-made still, out of the entire bottle of vodka 1L I only managed to get about 8 ounces but the it at least 150 proof if not more since I could light it on fire and it was a cool blue flame (by cool I mean I could put my hand over the flame and heat was almost non-existent,  however after sitting it the freezer for about 1hour it had absorbed enough water to drop it well bellow the flash point.

So yes if you use a semi high ethanol content of gas there's a good chance you'll rust out a lot of your fuel system.

[falconhockey]

so what your saying is i can get extremly drunk by drinking a little ethanol? 

[Retro Rocket]

so what your saying is i can get extremly drunk by drinking a little ethanol? 

NO....you will die..

When distilling alcohol, ethanol is taken off the top of the distilled alcohol before the alcohol is deemed ready for using. When you here of someone dying from drinking moonshine it is usually because the ethanol hasn't been removed from the alcohol........Don't ask me how i know this...

Mick

[TwoTired]

Wait a minute.  Ethanol or ethyl alcohol is the same as what is served in bars for human consumption.  People have been drinking ethanol for years.

It's the purity that is in question here.  Or, the confusion with Methanol which will destroy the optic nerve in small doses and kill you outright in large doses.

There are many types of alcohol.  Best not to confuse them if you intend to consume them.

Alcohol is quite a good solvent which allows it to suspend many other chemicals in solution.  Not all chemicals are recommended for human consumption.

[Retro Rocket]

Hi TT, so are you saying that what is removed after the alcohol distilling process is Methanol and not ethanol?

Mick

[TwoTired]

The distilling process is used in the creation of both ethanol and methanol.  The difference is usually what the alcohol is made from.

For fuel use, methanol may be added to ethanol (Denatured) to evade alcohol consumption taxes.
Either alcohol can be an effective fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

Cheers,

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yep, back in the hollers the methanol was bad, make a feller go blind.

Good for degreasing engines and the like. 

[Retro Rocket]

I would still like an answer to my question. When distilling alcohol for drinking {scotch , bourbon and the like}, my mate then takes the first couple of hundred milliliters of fluid off the top to make it safe to be used for drink, what is he removing?

Mick

[BobbyR]

I would still like an answer to my question. When distilling alcohol for drinking {scotch , bourbon and the like}, my mate then takes the first couple of hundred milliliters of fluid off the top to make it safe to be used for drink, what is he removing?

Mick

That first hundred milliliters can contain Methanol, so for safety sake that first bit gets tossed. I guess you could collect it and use it as a solvent. 

[Retro Rocket]

I would still like an answer to my question. When distilling alcohol for drinking {scotch , bourbon and the like}, my mate then takes the first couple of hundred milliliters of fluid off the top to make it safe to be used for drink, what is he removing?

Mick

That first hundred milliliters can contain Methanol, so for safety sake that first bit gets tossed. I guess you could collect it and use it as a solvent. 

Thanks Bobby. It burns well.....

Mick

[Laminar]

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Gasoline isn't as easy to light as you'd think. The liquid doesn't burn, just the vapor, and it has to be in exactly the right concentration. A better experiment would have been to take a known-good running bike and switch it to the old gas, then compare performance.

In Iowa, the typical gas station has three choices:
87 octane, no ethanol
89 octane, 10% ethanol
91 octane, no ethanol

The 89 is cheapest (subsidies), but I always go with the 87 for my bikes.

[HondaMan]

Well here in the People;s Republic of NY all u can get is some flammable liquid they pass off for gasoline

I did an interesting experiment with this 'stuff' about a week ago: I got a DOHC750 here for tuneup that had 3 month-old Colorado gas in it. I poured some out and tried to light it.

Nope.

I've been running my lawnmower on the gas I have in a 5gal can that's leftover from last Fall, so it's about 8 months old.  Granted it's just a lawnmower engine so it's not all that picky, but it's running just fine.  You positive that gas was only 3 months old? 

Yep, but keep in mind: the bike tanks are vented. Your lawn mower can is probably not. I have some of this alky-gas in a portable Honda generator in my motorhome that is now 3 years old: it is a completely sealed tank on that gizmo, and it still starts and runs when I test it. And, it is still clear in the tank! I think it's just the exposure to atmosphere, even via a vent, that lets this stuff go bad so fast.

[Sam Green Racing]

Sounds like a good black market opportunity. Who'll ship me a 50 gallon drum of ethanol free gas to CA

Optionally, is there any way the home chemist can remove the ethanol from a 5 gallon storage container of gas?

Mix with water and then let sit until the saturated ethanol and water has settled to the bottom.  Then siphon off the gas from the top.  I'm not sure what this will do to the octane rating, though.  I have a 7gal glass carboy that I used to use for homebrewing that I plan on trying this with.   

When I last checked, 5% ethanol in Vpower racing fuel raised the octane by just 1.

And yes, you can remove it by mixing the fuel with water, at times it can be a long wait.
Around 70, I ran a nitro/methanol fuel bike that got a lot of fuel blown past the rings due to running it very rich. I changed the oil for new after each pass down the quarter as the fuel contaminated the oil. I took all the mixture home and put it into glass containers with a tap on the bottom, after a few weeks, the oil was clean and the fuel was underneath and could be tapped off. Had I used the idea of mixing it with water, it would have probably speeded up the process.

Sam.

[Gordon]

Yep, but keep in mind: the bike tanks are vented. Your lawn mower can is probably not. I have some of this alky-gas in a portable Honda generator in my motorhome that is now 3 years old: it is a completely sealed tank on that gizmo, and it still starts and runs when I test it. And, it is still clear in the tank! I think it's just the exposure to atmosphere, even via a vent, that lets this stuff go bad so fast.

Good point, Mark.  Hadn't thought about the venting.