Topic: Ultimate gun control, or not!

[Thane]

OK so I watch the video and my first thought is just exactly how long does one keep filming when you see something that could have possibly been prevented. I know that it was only a few seconds but still, it doesn't take a genius to figure out something ugly was about to happen and instead filming maybe someone should have set the recorder down and  taken the gun away from the kid.

[Industrial Cafe]

333, always with the jokes.

I hope you're joking, cause I wasn't.

Do you really think that moron should've ever been allowed near a gun?  Sure, the moron is probably dead, but that kid is eff'd for life.  And if that had happened here in the U.S., the cost to society is for sure.  That kid would never be able to hold a job or be in any way normal, and the odds of him going postal one day are probably even.

oh yeah, I was kidding.

guns are bad, I get so afraid when I see one that I shake, cry, and pee.
  We need to take them away from everyone so they don't shoot us, cause if you have a gun and you're not a cop you must be a criminal.
    I'm afraid because I've been domesticated, I sit on the couch, I sit in my car, I sit at my job, I eat the chemicals, and drink the water.

die thread, die!
 

[69modelj]

And people wonder why there is such a debate on gun control.

Maybe there ought to be gun control in Iraq, eh?

[TwoTired]

333, always with the jokes.

I hope you're joking, cause I wasn't.

Do you really think that moron should've ever been allowed near a gun?  Sure, the moron is probably dead, but that kid is eff'd for life.  And if that had happened here in the U.S., the cost to society is for sure.  That kid would never be able to hold a job or be in any way normal, and the odds of him going postal one day are probably even.

Do we have to kick the soapbox out from under you again?

I wonder.  Are you the pious one on who we rely to judge each and every person's merit for individual property ownership?

Since it is possible for morons to operate autos, kitchen knives, chainsaws, bottles of gasoline, Bleach, Ammonia, and an almost endless list of items that are capable of maiming or ending life, why aren't those items included in you soapbox speech?

Are there limits to your accumulated phobias?

And when did you become a child psychology expert?

My prediction?  I expect the odds of you going postal one day are probably better than the child in question.  Nostradamus, eat your heart out!

Perhaps it is you should never be allowed to have a firearm, and are projecting your own self mistrust onto others?

60 million U.S. gun owners didn't kill anybody today.

[bikerbart]

well spoken TT.I sold my gun as soon as I knew I was having a kid.I dont hunt or shoot for sport so I felt the odds of me actually having to defend my self are pretty slim.

[Kframe]

333, always with the jokes.

I hope you're joking, cause I wasn't.

Do you really think that moron should've ever been allowed near a gun?  Sure, the moron is probably dead, but that kid is eff'd for life.  And if that had happened here in the U.S., the cost to society is for sure.  That kid would never be able to hold a job or be in any way normal, and the odds of him going postal one day are probably even.

That kid was already "eff'd for life".  Look at the culture he's growing up in.  Shooting live guns in the air at weddings?  Puhlease.  
If he's like 3-5 and already nobody cares he's got a gun in his hand, he's not destined for great things, or longevity himself.

It has nothing to do with "gun control."  For Pete's sake, in the US we've got c.200,000,000 [FBI estimate, 2004] personally owned firearms, but we don't go shooting them up in the air on a regular basis (every time you see a celebration and/or protest on TV from over there, people are shooting up in the air).  
The actual gun is not a problem.

What, anyone honestly think that if any Middle Eastern country enacted the Brady Bill today, would anything change?  
Car-bombs are already illegal.  

Now, in a microcosm sense of gun control, if there was a single responsible person at that gathering, they could control the gun and not let the kid hold onto it.  Apparently there were no responsible adults present.  
No kid could ever access any of my guns, and it's not because of legislation, it's because I care enough to make sure.
-K

[Terry in Australia]

You know, if we gave every little kid in Iraq and Afghanistan a gun, those two countries would be a lot better off................ 

[Retro Rocket]

You know, if we gave every little kid in Iraq and Afghanistan a gun, those two countries would be a lot better off................ 

I thought the US had already done that in Afghanistan.......{ducks for cover}....

Mick

[dave500]

hey im going to a wedding,can i borrow your tuxedo and  gun?

[Terry in Australia]

Can't be a Queensland wedding Dave, or else it'd be blue singlet, stubbies, thongs, and shotguns?

[Frankencake]

333, always with the jokes.

I hope you're joking, cause I wasn't.

Do you really think that moron should've ever been allowed near a gun?  Sure, the moron is probably dead, but that kid is eff'd for life.  And if that had happened here in the U.S., the cost to society is for sure.  That kid would never be able to hold a job or be in any way normal, and the odds of him going postal one day are probably even.

Do we have to kick the soapbox out from under you again?

I wonder.  Are you the pious one on who we rely to judge each and every person's merit for individual property ownership?

Since it is possible for morons to operate autos, kitchen knives, chainsaws, bottles of gasoline, Bleach, Ammonia, and an almost endless list of items that are capable of maiming or ending life, why aren't those items included in you soapbox speech?

Are there limits to your accumulated phobias?

And when did you become a child psychology expert?

My prediction?  I expect the odds of you going postal one day are probably better than the child in question.  Nostradamus, eat your heart out!

Perhaps it is you should never be allowed to have a firearm, and are projecting your own self mistrust onto others?

60 million U.S. gun owners didn't kill anybody today.

That is the definition of ownage! 

[Inigo Montoya]

No cupcake, it is the definition of thinking too highly of ones self.
What EXACTLY did 333 say that was so bad? Or 3was it something just ASSUMED he was saying?
Lets see, his first post said, "no wonder there is such a debate on gun control". How is that wrong? MUCH of the material gun control proponents use is based on instances like this. You can see it in the news almost every day practically.

Then he puts in this

Do you really think that moron should've ever been allowed near a gun?  Sure, the moron is probably dead, but that kid is eff'd for life.  And if that had happened here in the U.S., the cost to society is for sure.  That kid would never be able to hold a job or be in any way normal, and the odds of him going postal one day are probably even.

I fail to see what is the problem with this statement. Besides, last I checked, he was still entitled to his opinion. And as he did not disparage anyone(unlike some others)maybe his opinion deserves more credit.

So wait? Every moron should have a gun? No training in said weapon? And how is the kid NOT screwed for life? NONE of you here are mental health specialists, especially tt. I am 35 and I remember events from when I was 3. I bet many of you do too. Most likely this kid is going to remember this for a LONG time, and given it is on video, he can see exactly what happened. Yeah, good chance the kid my suffer some issues without some sort of counseling. So maybe the kid will end up being able to move on and be "normal". Can you guarantee that? Nope. Sorry but tt is an extremist when it suits him. He is just trying to use a weak argument by bringing in knives and all those other things. Sure they are all deadly but none of them "accidentally" go off. A person has to have some training for a car. Gee we could just as easily say that LIVING can kill you.
Am I for gun control? No BUT I am for gun TRAINING. Should any person be able to buy a gun? Sure...AFTER they can pass a training course. And why not? Many states require hunter safety to get any kind of license. 

[Industrial Cafe]

I really thought he was kidding...
Iraq always seemed to be a place where the men act like unruly little kids. and the kids act even less civil.

I thought 333 was making a funny about gun control in a land where there seems to be no self control.


EDIT:
       then I tried to kill the thread before it became self aware. 

[Industrial Cafe]

I just don't see why we should have the government setup gun control, when that should be something your dad teaches you when you're young.  

     i.e. camping, knife safety, gun safety.
And if your dad doesn't have time to do that stuff, there's groups called Boy Scouts or Royal Rangers that will do that...
           come to think of it-  
  My dad's been a scout leader since the 70's and he says you can't do anything "dangerous" with kids anymore....  no knife or rifle safety training, no tomahawk throwing contests, no archery, nothing where a kid could potentially "get a boo boo" if he weren't properly trained... oh wait, that's what the training is for. hmm...

I swear we're all being domesticated like sheep in the name of safety.
 
    Soon, they'll be giving out shoes for guns.... oh wait again, they do that already. WHAT A GREAT DEAL!!

i dunno, the world is fuct. and I blame the #$%*ty dads and the norms of the world.  now the government gets to be our collective dad figure YAY!
keep me safe by playing keep away.

P.S. I haven't had any coffee yet, and I think I may have rambled a bit.
 

[Inigo Montoya]

And all that is true. A lot of it has come though because of accidents that have happened.
For example, what if a dad was an idiot with a gun and passed on his ways? The kid would be an idiot with a gun too.
Proficiency varies with everyone, otherwise everyone could be the best carpenter or machinist, ect. Hell, when I was younger, I never stepped foot in a scout troop. Not by my choice either. My step father never had the time of day for me, of course he did for HIS sons though. I never got to do sports or anything. So unfortunately we can't assume families are all the same. But many of the activities we do have no sort of training associated with them. Many have to figure it out for themselves or listen to dubious info from questionable sources.
So you cant blame dads really. Not totally. I know zilch about sports and I have no desire to know. If the choice was sports or opera, it would be a toss up. I would probably just take a nap! Every skill should have training available. In the case of guns, cars, things that can not only kill you but others as well; training should be mandated.
 how about blaming over protective parents and parents who dont give a #$%*? I think that works ok.

[Industrial Cafe]

we could do that too.

And all that is true. A lot of it has come though because of accidents that have happened.
For example, what if a dad was an idiot with a gun and passed on his ways? The kid would be an idiot with a gun too.
Proficiency varies with everyone, otherwise everyone could be the best carpenter or machinist, ect. Hell, when I was younger, I never stepped foot in a scout troop. Not by my choice either. My step father never had the time of day for me, of course he did for HIS sons though. I never got to do sports or anything. So unfortunately we can't assume families are all the same. But many of the activities we do have no sort of training associated with them. Many have to figure it out for themselves or listen to dubious info from questionable sources.
So you cant blame dads really. Not totally. I know zilch about sports and I have no desire to know. If the choice was sports or opera, it would be a toss up. I would probably just take a nap! Every skill should have training available. In the case of guns, cars, things that can not only kill you but others as well; training should be mandated.
 how about blaming over protective parents and parents who dont give a #$%*? I think that works ok.

we could blame overprotective parents too i guess.
   but what happened to them when they were a kid to make them so overprotective?
        BTW: I don't do sports either.
 I drove cars, shot stuff, and killed things to eat, before the age of 10, but I grew up with a dad that was a really good mentor i guess.
    A lot of my friends didn't have quality dads and they hung out with my dad more that theirs.
 but because of all the perverts "now-a-days" that would be considered creepy and people would question my dads motivation for being around all these kids.
 
    I know it's a gun control thread, but I think most problems stem from a simple root, and if the seed were planted among strong trees and pruned properly from the beginning, they would have firm branches and a strong valuable trunk.

...if anyone catches my metaphor.

[andy750]

You don't know much about the middle east then. The main reason it is so hard to make headway there is because they don't value human life like we do.
Mick

What a stupid comment Mick. Next you will be telling us that our brains are bigger than theirs... .

[Industrial Cafe]

they're not?

[333]

This time, I get the joke, Brian.

I was staying away from this thread for a couple reasons.  Mainly because no matter what I, or anyone says, regardless of qualifications, will be able to sway someones opinion.  Any extreme opinion is based on "jumping to conclusions".  It's hard to use common sense when one is foaming at the mouth.

 Example; The Republicans have said repeatedly that the Democrats will take away all your guns if given the chance.  Where does it say that?  Any attempt by the Left to propose any "keep guns away from morons" legislation is touted by the radical Right as just that.

So before we go too much farther, let me express my opinion on the bigger subject of gun control.  While I am clearly a Democrat, I would be one of those "gun totin' Democrats".  Except for the fact that I sold all my guns at the beginning of a depressive state I entered a few years back.  I figured I would live longer if I couldn't eat a bullet.  I'm better nowadays, and could see myself owning a handgun again one day.

The other reason I was staying away from this thread is that it exposes other sides of people in a way not so appealing.  Respect is lost when someone spews hate like that has been stated here.  And to answer some of that...

Lloyd, you don't know me at all.  You've said some hateful things, things I would never say to anyone.  But let me answer some of your comments.

I wonder.  Are you the pious one on who we rely to judge each and every person's merit for individual property ownership?

Jumping to conclusions again?

Since it is possible for morons to operate autos, kitchen knives, chainsaws, bottles of gasoline, Bleach, Ammonia, and an almost endless list of items that are capable of maiming or ending life, why aren't those items included in you soapbox speech?

While these items are dangerous, each one has a main purpose that isn't to kill people.  Guns have 2 purposes.  To put holes in people and targets.  Obviously, law enforcement needs to do this sometimes, but even they get it wrong every now and then.  Example:

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100621/NEWS02/100629970

60 million U.S. gun owners didn't kill anybody today.

Here in D.C.(10 minutes away from my house on a good day), there were 6 shootings on Saturday.  One fatal.  I'll bet that there isn't a day that goes by that some gun owner(and we're not counting police) kills somebody.  There are way too many morons here in the U.S. to back up your statement.

[Retro Rocket]

You don't know much about the middle east then. The main reason it is so hard to make headway there is because they don't value human life like we do.
Mick

What a stupid comment Mick. Next you will be telling us that our brains are bigger than theirs... .

You really think so Andy, every time i turn on the TV there are pictures and stories of shocking atrocities in the middle east. If you think they value life like we do then why are they so friggin brutal. They even kill their own family members because of something as simple as pre marital sex or for cavorting with a man,and look at how they treat westerners when they have the chance. Sure there are some that don't think this way but they live in a very different place than we do and if you think they think like you and me then you are either naive or have your head buried in the sand. We have a lot of middle eastern refugees in Aus at the moment and they have brought their traditions and lack of respect for anyone else with them. We have had a huge rise in stabbing murders, rapes and even honour killings, i won't even go into their lack of respect for women generally. Jump on the bandwagon of political correctness mate and call me a racist, i am just calling it as it is.....I like the way you end your little rant too mate, by putting words into my mouth to justify your  view. Humour me and tell me how they value human life like we do mate, i would be thrilled to hear what you actually think......

Mick

[andy750]

Mick,

I wont get into a pissing match with you over this as you seem to have some pretty strong views based on what you see in Australia and what you read in the papers. Fair enough thats your opinion. I formed mine through meeting a cross-section of people from the Middle east (and since its a pretty big place with many different cultures Ill define which countries I am talking about) -  Lebanon, Iran, Israel, Egypt, Pakistan, Iraq, - some of these have become good friends. Your blanket statement is what irked me. Do you really believe that a WHOLE specific population/country in the world values human life less than you do in your Western suburban home? If you do then I doubt anything I will say will change that so good luck to you...just dont travel abroad too much...

The quote at the end of my comment has its basis in history where the Belgium aristocracy instilled hatred in Tutsi versus Hutu in Rwanda by telling them that kind of crap....

cheers
Andy

[Terry in Australia]

Hey Mick, I don't know if you saw the news here last Thursday (Kevin Rudd getting the arse kind of overshadowed it) but there was a stabbing/shooting in here in Melbourne. Apparently a young Middle Eastern bloke stabbed his mother and his sister during a domestic argument, and then he stabbed a 65 year old passer by when he tried to help, and when the cops arrived he stabbed one of them too.

The two cops pepper sprayed him, but that didn't work, so they had to shoot the lunatic 8 times, then the uninjured cop had to continue to beat him with his handgun (cops here still have crappy Smith and Wesson .38's) to eventually subdue him. Like you've said, the Middle Easterners here don't have much respect for human life, and this is just one example. Cheers, Terry.

http://leader-news.whereilive.com.au/news/story/man-still-in-hospital-after-being-stabbed-in-meadow-heights-police-shooting/ 

[Joel]

This time, I get the joke, Brian.

I was staying away from this thread for a couple reasons.  Mainly because no matter what I, or anyone says, regardless of qualifications, will be able to sway someones opinion.  Any extreme opinion is based on "jumping to conclusions".  It's hard to use common sense when one is foaming at the mouth.

 Example; The Republicans have said repeatedly that the Democrats will take away all your guns if given the chance.  Where does it say that?  Any attempt by the Left to propose any "keep guns away from morons" legislation is touted by the radical Right as just that.

So before we go too much farther, let me express my opinion on the bigger subject of gun control.  While I am clearly a Democrat, I would be one of those "gun totin' Democrats".  Except for the fact that I sold all my guns at the beginning of a depressive state I entered a few years back.  I figured I would live longer if I couldn't eat a bullet.  I'm better nowadays, and could see myself owning a handgun again one day.

The other reason I was staying away from this thread is that it exposes other sides of people in a way not so appealing.  Respect is lost when someone spews hate like that has been stated here.  And to answer some of that...

Lloyd, you don't know me at all.  You've said some hateful things, things I would never say to anyone.  But let me answer some of your comments.

I wonder.  Are you the pious one on who we rely to judge each and every person's merit for individual property ownership?

Jumping to conclusions again?

Since it is possible for morons to operate autos, kitchen knives, chainsaws, bottles of gasoline, Bleach, Ammonia, and an almost endless list of items that are capable of maiming or ending life, why aren't those items included in you soapbox speech?

While these items are dangerous, each one has a main purpose that isn't to kill people.  Guns have 2 purposes.  To put holes in people and targets.  Obviously, law enforcement needs to do this sometimes, but even they get it wrong every now and then.  Example:

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100621/NEWS02/100629970

60 million U.S. gun owners didn't kill anybody today.

Here in D.C.(10 minutes away from my house on a good day), there were 6 shootings on Saturday.  One fatal.  I'll bet that there isn't a day that goes by that some gun owner(and we're not counting police) kills somebody.  There are way too many morons here in the U.S. to back up your statement.

Doesn't DC have some of the strictest gun control laws in this country?

[BlindJoe]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/28/AR2010062802134_pf.html not for much longer possibly...

[333]

Actually, The Supreme Court f'ed D.C. last year, overturning the law on the basis that D.C. is federal, and federal residents are covered by the 2nd amendment, and that D.C. (not being a STATE) doesn't have the authority to enact any gun laws.  This description may be over simplified, but that's what it feels like.

So Mick, you base your opinion on the news, and attribute these traits to all people from that region?  You do realize that the news only reports the bad things.  Good news doesn't sell.  And much like Andy(maybe even more- D.C. is very international) I've met a fair amount of people from all around the world.  And trust me- if they were all like what is in the news they wouldn't be welcome anywhere.