Author Topic: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold  (Read 758 times)

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Offline Cl550

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78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« on: July 03, 2024, 06:44:13 PM »
Bike barely starts when cold but first tap of starter once warmed even a little. It will start cold with starter fluid which makes me suspect fuel flow.
1978 cb550 with uni foam pods and stock exhaust.
I’ve cleaned the carbs and adjusted valves, points and timing and synced the carbs. Runs and starts great when warm.
The main jet says 97*5 and the pilot 42.
I’ve tried the mixture screws at 1.5, 2.0, 2.5.
Any thoughts. Could pilot jet need increasing.

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2024, 09:04:39 PM »
You didn't mention this but... are you using the choke?

Offline jaytee-nz

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2024, 10:52:09 PM »
And are all 4 choke plates adjusted so that they fully close off the venturi ?

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2024, 11:56:14 PM »
Oiled uni filters are easy to over oil and this will cause excessively rich running. The 550 and 500 really run much better with the stock air box and filter. It is only with significant modifications will you have a need for more air into the motor than a stock air box can flow.
Just in case you didn't know these facts...
Honda got the air box design right for the 500 and 550 providing an excellent design.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Cl550

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2024, 05:31:21 AM »
Yes, using the choke and they all close, thanks.
I’ve read a thousand replies on why I shouldn’t have pods, but it came that way so I’m stuck with it.
And the filters aren’t oiled at all.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2024, 09:56:16 AM »
Maybe here's a start?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276494937847?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=276494937847&targetid=2512152189032&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9028790&poi=&campaignid=21203587080&mkgroupid=165530566284&rlsatarget=pla-2512152189032&abcId=9407516&merchantid=114743406&gad_source=5&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhcyGxuuNhwMVVxStBh3k0wWuEAQYBSABEgJJVvD_BwE

Then fit a single K&N pod filter to the back of this plenum (I think I still have some, you can have one if you need it for this), if you can't locate the air filter's box itself. To make this 'adapter' would require using a flat plate (sheet of thick plastic or aluminum flashing) that could fit inside or against the plenum's opening, which is oval and has a top and bottom bolt mount already on board. Then a 'spigot' could be installed into this plate to fit a single pod filter. The K&N filter will breathe far more air thru it than the whole engine can ingest. With this arrangement the stock jetting will be fine.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Online scottly

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2024, 01:05:11 PM »
Are you opening the throttle when starting with the choke on? If not, you might try doing so, as it will cause more fuel to be pulled from the main jet.
What size jets are stock? If any re-jetting is required due to the pods, it's usually the main that needs to be increased, rather than the pilot. Another consideration with pods is the lack of support at the rear of the carbs, which makes them hang off the rubber boots and can cause vacuum leaks, so you might want to improvise a simple support.
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Offline Cl550

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2024, 10:54:11 AM »
Thanks hondaman. Is that your plenum.
I don’t even know what the original configuration looks like so don’t know what all else I’d need and I am leery of making radical changes and introducing other issues since I don’t have your understanding of the system. Could the pods cause this with the original pilot jets.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2024, 12:47:17 PM »
It will start cold with starter fluid which makes me suspect fuel flow.

You do know fuel is gravity fed, right?  So, I would rule that out.

Starting procedure for my 550F is full choke and no throttle til she fires.   
Hard starting can also be a sign of clogged or bad pilot jets. Do you have genuine brass?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline drodg33

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2024, 01:21:49 PM »
This probably won't help but had to share.  I have a stock CB500 72 and it was very hard to start cold.  Someone on here suggested to put the choke on and turn the kill switch to off.  Crank it for like 10 second or so with the throttle fully open.  Then put the kill switch to on and give it like 1/8 to 1/4 throttle and since I have done that it starts most of the time right up.  Of course have the fuel to on also.  This may not help you but it did me.  Btw my bike always started hot great.   

Offline Cl550

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2024, 07:38:04 PM »
I don’t know how to tell if the brass is original for the pilot. It says 42 preceded by that fat k (or whatever it is in the middle of keihim spelling) so I’m hoping it is. It’s my understanding that is the stock number. The main is supposed to be 90 I believe so that doesn’t appear to be but i didn’t think that should affect starting.
I’ve tried choke, no choke, choke with throttle, about everything. Full choke seems to give best response, usually a faint hit on number 1. If I keep doing over and over and over and over, it will start to get a little better as the other cylinders start to warm up. I feel the pipes at the head and #1 warms up while others remain cold until I’ve cranked long enough. Although, I never crank more than 3-4 seconds at a time.
Full choke with throttle seems to give no response as opposed to the faint one with just choke.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2024, 07:58:44 PM »
Thanks hondaman. Is that your plenum.
I don’t even know what the original configuration looks like so don’t know what all else I’d need and I am leery of making radical changes and introducing other issues since I don’t have your understanding of the system. Could the pods cause this with the original pilot jets.

That's not mine: if I had one I'd post it in our own For Sale section, and cheaper! I'd rather help us out than make lots of $ on it.
I might suggest this, as the bike is 50 years old:
1. Make sure those rubber hoses between the carbs and their intake pipes (manifolds) to the head are in good shape, not cracked or such. Most of these are OK unless someone often removed and reinstalled them, then they tend to be hard enough that they leak vacuum.
2. Think about replacing the O-rings in those manifolds where they bolt to the head. They are also 50 years old and hard as plastic now, so they don't seal for beans - especially if they have been recently unbolted: they are the same size as the O-rings in the valve caps above them. If you need some, PM me: I have about 100 of them.

The PD42C carbs (if that's what yours has) use a 12.5mm float bowl level to help enrich the cold-start situation with otherwise fairly lean jetting. If you have opportunity, maybe check this because it is often confused with the 1977 carbs and their 14.5mm float bowl level: while that would let the bike run hot just fine, it would also make the bike harder to cold-start. This makes little difference to the hot-run performance (until about 7000 RPM, then it matters more), which kind of sounds like your description above?

And, about sparkplugs: if they are black, get new ones. Once they get carbon-fouled they will do things that don't make sense according to adjustments you might make. That bike should have the D7EA (NGK) or the X22ES-U (ND) plugs.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2024, 08:10:35 AM »
One more thing that I didn't see in the thread -- how long does the bike sit in between rides? If it sits for a few days, the fuel level in the carbs will drop and it will need some time to refill the bowls. If it sits for more than 2-3 days or so, that might be it. And it'd also explain why it starts right up after it's been ridden. Just a thought. Next time you go to start, turn the fuel on and let it flow for ten seconds or more before trying to start it.

Offline Cl550

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2024, 09:52:43 AM »
I think maybe I should replace the boots. Anywhere in particular I should or shouldn’t look. The first time I removed the carbs I couldn’t get them back on until I finally gave up and used a ratchet strap, which I didn’t like, because they were so hard. The next time I bought new o rings from Honda and installed the manifolds on the carbs first and it was a piece of cake.
I do have the 46C carbs and had adjusted the floats to 12.5 and d7ea plugs.
It usually is a week or two between rides and I have on occasion waited until the gas quit flowing before starting but will be more cognizant of it next time.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2024, 10:53:31 AM »
Don't buy aftermarket carb intake manifold rubber parts, they do not hold up. OEM from Honda only...discount dealers like South Sound Honda of Olympia WA are my go to dealer for larger orders. They charge reasonable shipping costs as well.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Cl550

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2024, 07:18:37 AM »
Thank you sir!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2024, 05:05:48 PM »
+1 on South Sound: if you get over $200 they pay for shipping, too!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline newday777

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Re: 78 CB550 doesn’t like to start cold
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2024, 06:21:59 PM »
+1 on South Sound: if you get over $200 they pay for shipping, too!
Hmmmm. I guess I need to talk to Dex. $25 shipping on the last week order of $500......
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My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
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Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A