Topic: not charging...straightening out my electrical

[laser145]

I rode the 750K6 around for a week and the battery(new) kept getting weaker. Finally this morning it wouldn't even try to start the bike. So I kicked it and off I went. After about 20 min the bike started to run very poorly, missing, stalling...then it went dead. I had to push it over a mile to my garage!!
Once I got it back to the garage I hooked up the battery tender and cleaned and set the points, then she fired right up.

The points didn't look bad, and their gaps weren't too far off, but would a dead battery stop the bike from running?

So I guess I know that charging system isn't functioning properly... Here are some pics of the PO's handiwork...


This is a rectifier, right? I don't know ANYTHING about electrical...

Any Ideas on this... I'm guessing the red wires are factory, the orange one with the fuse is not... notice the two cut red wires above... Anyone know what they are?

Also, this wire has no home? Anyone? All the electrics on the bike work...

Cheers

[Brown Bomber]

1st Pic:That is an aftermarket rectifier that needs to be tested, (likely culprit in many charging failures) connected, and mounted properly.

2nd Pic: Looks like he cut the red wires, bypassed the fuse block, and put a blade fuse.
(I've done something similar, but not so crude, and sloppy) Just needs to be tidied up.

3rd Pic: The green wire is just an extra ground in case you use a 3 prong turn signal flasher. (you can just tuck that out of the way somewhere.)

Once you get those straight, check the Voltage regulator. It may need adjustment, and might be you charging problem if it isn't the rectifier.

[laser145]

Thanks...

To test the rectifier I need to get a multimeter, right? I'm considering one on harbor freight but I'll do a search first. Can I use the same tool to check the voltage regulator? I'll do a search for the process...

He did a pretty sloppy job all around on the electrics...

These splices look like hell too...

I always thought these bikes would run with a dead battery, all you had to do was have one installed to complete the circuit... Am I wrong? Or was it something else hat caused the bike to crap out on me?

[cameron]

Get a multimeter.

You can go no further without one.

[Brown Bomber]

They don't run with a weak or dead battery. You can use a multi meter from harbor freight, get a continuity tester too. The rectifier on my 500T checked good with the meter, but also showed continuity between two poles. (bad)
 Those plug wires shouldn't be spliced like that, could arc to the tank, and make a big boom.
If you can use a Dremel, and a Solder gun, there is a guide in the FAQ on how to replace the wires correctly. I just did it, and it works great.
Allen

[Brown Bomber]

Oh yeah!
You can use the same multimeter to test the Vreg.

[laser145]

They don't run with a weak or dead battery. You can use a multi meter from harbor freight, get a continuity tester too. The rectifier on my 500T checked good with the meter, but also showed continuity between two poles. (bad)
 Those plug wires shouldn't be spliced like that, could arc to the tank, and make a big boom.
If you can use a Dremel, and a Solder gun, there is a guide in the FAQ on how to replace the wires correctly. I just did it, and it works great.
Allen

Big Boom? I think I'll avoid that, thanks. I checked out that plug wire solution and think I'll do it. Looks like the bike is out of commission for a bit as I'll have to wait for parts and I'm moving this week...

I imagine then it was the battery that left me stranded.

I'm going to get a multimeter, figure out my charging woes, fix those plug wires, then get a Hondaman ignition. Then a 3K service and I'm set. I think.

Thanks

[GHST_TGR]

For what it's worth, I have a 550f that has charging problems too. I plug it into a trickle charger every night because the battery has gone dead on me twice while on the road before I wised up. I also experienced poor performance and stalling before going completely dead and unable to kickstart. I will be needing to go over all the electrics like you but for now, the inconvenience of charging the battery every night outweighs the lengthy decommission of electrical troubleshooting. I'll save that for the winter.

[laser145]

For what it's worth, I have a 550f that has charging problems too. I plug it into a trickle charger every night because the battery has gone dead on me twice while on the road before I wised up. I also experienced poor performance and stalling before going completely dead and unable to kickstart. I will be needing to go over all the electrics like you but for now, the inconvenience of charging the battery every night outweighs the lengthy decommission of electrical troubleshooting. I'll save that for the winter.

I would do the same thing, but I live 30 min away from my garage in Brooklyn. Often, I ride my bike into Brooklyn and keep it on the street for weeks at a time, so I can't plug it in at night...

For now, I'll keep in charged in the garage until I can fix it...

[cameron]

For what it's worth, I have a 550f that has charging problems too. I plug it into a trickle charger every night because the battery has gone dead on me twice while on the road before I wised up. I also experienced poor performance and stalling before going completely dead and unable to kickstart. I will be needing to go over all the electrics like you but for now, the inconvenience of charging the battery every night outweighs the lengthy decommission of electrical troubleshooting. I'll save that for the winter.

I struggled with this for years.
then I got this:
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/sYT12C.html

and haven't had to top her off since.

[GHST_TGR]

I struggled with this for years.
then I got this:
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/sYT12C.html

and haven't had to top her off since.

Not to change the subject of this thread but I'm pretty sure it's a charging system problem (rectifier etc) and not a battery problem. The original owner had also done some real funky electric hacks but I haven't had to time to weed through the wiring and find out the problem for sure.

[cameron]

I know, total threadjack!

It could be charging system.
Thats what I always thought my problem was. And in fact, it might still be true. I am almost totally stock.
But that AGM solved every nagging electrical problem that I could never get to the bottom of.
 It was magical.
It is like it is immune to the poor charging situation, unlike other batteries.

Maybe it is a band aid, but if it is, it is one of the awesome second-skin bandaids that works better than your real skin ever could!


Sorry, OP, for jacking your thread.
Though once you get your wiring straightened out, this might solve YOUR problems, too!

[laser145]

So I'm just coming back to this thread... I picked up this guy...


I know it's not digital, which I'm regretting...but at least it's a start.

I looked over all my wiring and the connectors look pretty clean. I have to clean up some of the splices that the PO did, and will do that soon.

So I exposed my battery and set the multimeter to DCV 25... When I touch the battery the needle went straight to the middle of the gauge.

Then I started the bike...no change in the reading... then I reved it to 3000rpms...no movement from the needle...

So I'm not charging, right?

My next step is going to be remove the regulator and follow the procedures in the shop manual...

Is this the proper step?

CHeers

[Brown Bomber]

Nothing wrong with an analog multi meter. If your getting around 12.6 Volts at the battery with the bike not running, it should go up to about 13.5 Volts at around 3K rpm. So it looks like it's not charging.    Looks like your on the right track though.

[laser145]

Nothing wrong with an analog multi meter. If your getting around 12.6 Volts at the battery with the bike not running, it should go up to about 13.5 Volts at around 3K rpm. So it looks like it's not charging.    Looks like your on the right track though.

Thanks

Notice from the first pic in the thread that my rectifier is hanging loosely by a zip tie...

Is this an issue, does it need to be mounted in order to be grounded?

[Spanner 1]

That rectifier doesn't need the case to be grounded, more an issue of heat dissipation.... with the red wire from the rect. disconnected from the red wire under that mess of white tape, is there any voltage (+) from the rectifier with the bike running ?.. i.e. red probe on rect. red ( disconnected) and black probe on battery (-) or good frame ground.
I expect 0 volts.... if so then take both the Black and the White wire off the regulator and connect them (Bk and W ) together. This will supply all voltage the battery has to the alternator asking it to give it's max. charging rate... Test with meter on batt. terms. for voltage rise as rpm are increased, like you already did..... if voltage rises, then regulator is bad, if no V. rise then stator or field coil in alt. is probably bad.
You can test them with your meter tho'.    Don't forget to reconnect RED wire discussed above before bypassing the regulator....!!

[laser145]

That rectifier doesn't need the case to be grounded, more an issue of heat dissipation.... with the red wire from the rect. disconnected from the red wire under that mess of white tape, is there any voltage (+) from the rectifier with the bike running ?.. i.e. red probe on rect. red ( disconnected) and black probe on battery (-) or good frame ground.

I'll check later today... I haven't messed with the rectifier yet, only looked at it in utter confusion...

What setting do I use on my multimeter? DCV 25?

Cheers

[Spanner 1]

DC 25V is fine... are all those crappy connections to the rect. good?... maybe start there, first.

[laser145]

DC 25V is fine... are all those crappy connections to the rect. good?... maybe start there, first.

None of the connections I've checked have come up corroded, but I haven't looked under the tape on the rectifier... I'll be doing that when I test it...

[beks82]

if youre not getting a charge when the bike is running than the possible things can be
1.  faulty r.r
2.  faulty stator
3.  defective wiring
4.  short trips...
looking at the PO's work I'm guessing 3 is going to have to be cleaned up regardless of what's going on the alternator or regulator or rectifier.  thing with electricals is when one part goes bad it can easily lead to another going bad.  check the regulator, but I would definitely go through the wiring and make sure that there are all good connections.  also don't forget the stator as well, that may have gone bad from faulty r/r.  it would be a pain to buy a new regulator and then realize that your stator is bad so your new regulator gets shot as well...good luck and hopefully this helped a little bit.

[laser145]

When I unwrap these spliced connections... what's the best way to reconnect them? I want to clean this stuff up... do I need to buy male/female connectors from autozone or home depot?

Any advise or anything to look out for, I really want to clean this stuff up...

Cheers

[Brown Bomber]

Doesn't matter where you get the connectors as long as they are automotive type.
If you can, get some Dielectric grease too, a light coating will prevent future corrosion.

[laser145]

That rectifier doesn't need the case to be grounded, more an issue of heat dissipation.... with the red wire from the rect. disconnected from the red wire under that mess of white tape, is there any voltage (+) from the rectifier with the bike running ?.. i.e. red probe on rect. red ( disconnected) and black probe on battery (-) or good frame ground.
I expect 0 volts.... if so then take both the Black and the White wire off the regulator and connect them (Bk and W ) together. This will supply all voltage the battery has to the alternator asking it to give it's max. charging rate... Test with meter on batt. terms. for voltage rise as rpm are increased, like you already did..... if voltage rises, then regulator is bad, if no V. rise then stator or field coil in alt. is probably bad.
You can test them with your meter tho'.    Don't forget to reconnect RED wire discussed above before bypassing the regulator....!!

Ok, so I diconnected the red wire from the rect. and hooked it to the red probe on the multimeter, then the black probe on the battery... I got volts, the same amount I have when the bike is off(reading from battery) or when running(reading from battery, at all RPM ranges).

So am I still supposed to do the next step you listed? If so, which white wire...there are a few.

Does this mean my rectifier isn't the problem? What's next?

Cheers

[Brown Bomber]

Go here,
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/FAQ.html
and read #3 for the correct way to test a rectifier.

[Spanner 1]

The regulator has 3 wires to it, unplug the white and black wires and temp. connect them together free of the reg., maybe use a paper-clip shoved into each connector to join them. Start the bike and read the voltage across the battery, does the V rise with increased rpm now?
The disconnected red wire on the rectifier cannot have voltage on it without the bike running unless its still connected to the red into the loom ( goes to the battery ) OR you have the black (-) probe on the + pole of the battery.( might read - 0.5v) For these tests the black probe always goes to - battery terminal or a good frame ground...... did you have the + probe on the wrong wire?