Topic: not charging...straightening out my electrical

[laser145]

Go here,
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/FAQ.html
and read #3 for the correct way to test a rectifier.

3.  How do I to test a rectifier?
what setting on my multimeter do I use? Do I do this with engine running?
Start with one lead of the meter (or test light) to the positive lead on the rectifierThe red wire coming from the rectifier?.  Touch the other test lead one at a time to each of the
AC terminals of the rectifiernot sure what these are?.  At this point you will either have continuity or not but it should be the same with all the AC terminals on
the rectifier.

Swap the test leads (still working with the positive terminal of the rectifier) and repeat the test.  This test should have the opposite
result as the previous test.  Again the result should be the same for each of the AC leads.   

Move on to the negative lead off the rectifier and repeat the 2 previous tests.  This is test is easier with a test light than with an
electrical meter.  The point is to check that power flows one way but not the other and the exact numbers isn’t as important.  If your
meter has a buzzer for continuity, this works very well too.

This will catch a bad rectifier 95% of the time.  The rest of the time they only fail under load and will usually get pretty hot.

[laser145]

The regulator has 3 wires to it, unplug the white and black wires and temp. connect them together free of the reg., maybe use a paper-clip shoved into each connector to join them. Start the bike and read the voltage across the battery, does the V rise with increased rpm now?
The disconnected red wire on the rectifier cannot have voltage on it without the bike running unless its still connected to the red into the loom ( goes to the battery ) OR you have the black (-) probe on the + pole of the battery.( might read - 0.5v) For these tests the black probe always goes to - battery terminal or a good frame ground...... did you have the + probe on the wrong wire?

Hehehe... I've been reading this post over and over again...then looking at the pictures I posted of the 5 wires coming out of my rectifier... after about 15 min I realized you were talking about the regulator!

I'll do this check tonight... Last night I opened up the regulator and attempted to adjust it according to the manual. Not sure if I did it right...

[Brown Bomber]

Go here,
http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/FAQ.html
and read #3 for the correct way to test a rectifier.

3.  How do I to test a rectifier?
what setting on my multimeter do I use? Ohm Do I do this with engine running? No, disconnect from motorcycle.
Start with one lead of the meter (or test light) to the positive lead on the rectifierThe red wire coming from the rectifier? Yes .  Touch the other test lead one at a time to each of the
AC terminals of the rectifiernot sure what these are?. The other connectors on the rectifier. At this point you will either have continuity or not but it should be the same with all the AC terminals on
the rectifier.

Swap the test leads (still working with the positive terminal of the rectifier) and repeat the test.  This test should have the opposite
result as the previous test.  Again the result should be the same for each of the AC leads.  

Move on to the negative lead off the rectifier and repeat the 2 previous tests.  This is test is easier with a test light than with an
electrical meter.  The point is to check that power flows one way but not the other and the exact numbers isn’t as important.  If your
meter has a buzzer for continuity, this works very well too.

This will catch a bad rectifier 95% of the time.  The rest of the time they only fail under load and will usually get pretty hot.

[P_Camps]

I am having the exact same problem with my 550.

I just ended up buying a trickle charger its much easier. 

[laser145]

I am having the exact same problem with my 550.

I just ended up buying a trickle charger its much easier. 

Yeah, I also use one... but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, my bike spends plenty of nights on the streets in Brooklyn with no electricity. I've actually been removing my battery and charging it in my apartment overnight.

But I just can't not fix it.

[laser145]

Which one is the negative lead off of the rectifier? I performed the test connecting one multimeter lead at a time to the red wire on the rectifier and then touching the other terminals... I got beeps going one way and none in reverse.

But I don't know who to perform the test from the negative lead on the rectifier, which one is it?

[Spanner 1]

Black on YOUR rectifier is Negative.... ( Black on your bike is + harness wire !)>
You have half the test done!, now black probe on Black wire and red probe to each white in turn... make sure meter is on 'beep' setting ( diode test). If it tests good, reconnect the rectifier wires and do the 'regulator by-pass' test described above, test for increasing voltage at the battery with bike running......

[laser145]

Black on YOUR rectifier is Negative.... ( Black on your bike is + harness wire !)>
You have half the test done!, now black probe on Black wire and red probe to each white in turn... make sure meter is on 'beep' setting ( diode test). If it tests good, reconnect the rectifier wires and do the 'regulator by-pass' test described above, test for increasing voltage at the battery with bike running......

Okay.

I disconnected my rectifier and touched the red lead of my multimeter (set to audible ohm) to the red wire...when I moved the black lead around the different connections, all beeped... then I switched the multimeter leads... so black lead connected to red rectifier...no beeps.

Then I touched repeated the process but with mult. leads connected to the black/green end... same result, beeps one way, none the other...

What does this mean? I have continuity? is my rect. OK?

Next I did the test on the regulator... connected the black and white ends to one another using the wire from an old condenser I just changed... I got no rise in voltage when reading from the battery through the range of RPM's

So does all this mean the problem is not my reg. or rect.?

Thanks for all the help!

[Spanner 1]

O.K., it appears your test of the rect. shows it's good... you did reconnect it before doing the reg. test tho'?
Seperate the black and white reg. wires and leave loose. Read the voltage on the black wire (+ probe ) with the bike running, note it and read the voltage at the battery, note that..... connect the black back to the white, like before and read the voltage at the black/white junction....... let us know what the readings are, por favor.

[laser145]

O.K., it appears your test of the rect. shows it's good... you did reconnect it before doing the reg. test tho'?
Seperate the black and white reg. wires and leave loose. Read the voltage on the black wire (+ probe ) with the bike running, note it and read the voltage at the battery, note that..... connect the black back to the white, like before and read the voltage at the black/white junction....... let us know what the readings are, por favor.

Hehe... To know the readings I'll have to know how to read this thing... when I test my fully charged battery with multimeter set to DCV25... the needle moves to the middle, which is 5OHMS, or on the DCV scale it reads either 125, 25, or 5 depending on which line of numbers I'm reading...

does this make sense?

[Spanner 1]

12.5 volts unless your nuke powered !!!

[cameron]

Hehe... To know the readings I'll have to know how to read this thing... when I test my fully charged battery with multimeter set to DCV25... the needle moves to the middle, which is 5OHMS, or on the DCV scale it reads either 125, 25, or 5 depending on which line of numbers I'm reading...

does this make sense?

So.. that meter is printed funny.. but it will work just fine.
It seems you have a 25 setting.. but not a 25 READING line...

SO SET it to 25.. but READ it at 250, and divide by 10.
That is...Dead in the middle is 12.5 volts. It might say 125 volts.. but it is 12.5.
You dig?

If you think it is being inaccurate. you can always flip it to 50V or 10V and see what it read there, too.

[Spanner 1]

One more test and we can crack this.....

[laser145]

Cameron,

I can do that...

Spanner1,

I'm at work...but as soon as I get home I'll get on the regulator test and report back... On another note... I couldn't ride my bike last night b/c it would stall in gear(all the people passing on the street while I kept stalling must have thought I was just learning to drive a manual!), looks like I've got another issue to deal with, clutch maybe?. I started a thread on it here...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74588.0

[laser145]

O.K., it appears your test of the rect. shows it's good... you did reconnect it before doing the reg. test tho'?
Seperate the black and white reg. wires and leave loose. Read the voltage on the black wire (+ probe ) with the bike running, note it and read the voltage at the battery, note that..... connect the black back to the white, like before and read the voltage at the black/white junction....... let us know what the readings are, por favor.

Ok... Voltage on black wire (disconnected from reg, + probe, -probe on - battery terminal)...voltage drops to around 10.7...hard to be more accurate than that, but it definitely dropped.

Voltage straight from battery is 12.5

Voltage at junction of black and white reg. wires is also 10.7ish...so it dropped.

All this was with the bike idling....

And the Verdict?

[Spanner 1]

Looks like your field coil in the alternator is bad.... just to re-cap; with the black+white wires off the reg. connected together and the bike running and revved to say 4,000 rpm, the battery voltage does not increase ?, right.
Next would be to test the field coil; put meter on 10x ( bike turned 'off' ) and probes on the white wire ( disconnect from black again ) and the green wire on reg. ( pull it off the reg. first) meter needs to read 7.2 ohms or very close to that. If the needle swings all the way ( same as touching the probes together ) then coil is shorted, or no reading = coil open circuit............
Basically the 10.7 volts you had on the black wire should have dropped when you connected the feild coil to it ( put black to white )., suggests an open circuit f/coil.

[laser145]

Looks like your field coil in the alternator is bad.... just to re-cap; with the black+white wires off the reg. connected together and the bike running and revved to say 4,000 rpm, the battery voltage does not increase ?, right.
Next would be to test the field coil; put meter on 10x ( bike turned 'off' ) and probes on the white wire ( disconnect from black again ) and the green wire on reg. ( pull it off the reg. first) meter needs to read 7.2 ohms or very close to that. If the needle swings all the way ( same as touching the probes together ) then coil is shorted, or no reading = coil open circuit............
Basically the 10.7 volts you had on the black wire should have dropped when you connected the feild coil to it ( put black to white )., suggests an open circuit f/coil.

Well I didn't rev it up, I'll do that before I proceed...

But just so I'm clear... to test the field coil: disconnect the white and green wires from the reg. Touch the + probe to the white, - probe to the green... and see what happens?

I'll get on this later... Have to take the wife out in the city...

Thanks so much for the help

Cheers

[cwchan]

My bike has similar charging issues.  Rectifier is good. when i rev the engine up to 5k i get a max of 13v.  I know that the regulator is adjustable so i'm looking into that next.

[TwoTired]

Don't F with regulator adjustment until you are damn certain it faulty.  Almost certainly you will make it worse with meddling.

The regulator only keeps the battery from over charging.  It does not make the alternator produce higher output.

You can't go with a casual measurement of the battery voltage.  You must have a fully charged battery to assess charging system capability.

The battery is a reservoir, you cannot empty or fill the reservoir instantaneously.  It slowly discharges and it slowly recharges.  It should get to 14.5V eventually.  But if the battery is depleted, it can take 6-12 hrs to fully charge a battery from the Honda charging system.

Cheers,

[laser145]

Don't F with regulator adjustment until you are damn certain it faulty.  Almost certainly you will make it worse with meddling.

Cheers,

I was messing with mine the other day, trying to follow the manual and adjust it... I've probably made it worse. I guess I'll tackle that beast next...

But since my bike is immobile now anyway b/c of a clutch(I think) problem, the charging system just became a little less urgent

I'm still going to finish those tests this evening though...

Cheers

[jbonham]

Man,I thought I had electrical issues with the bike I got! When I got it from my father-in-law it was a rats nest of wires in the headlight bucket that I thought I would never sort out. Granted you are dealing with issues I haven't had to deal with but it is a little hairy when trying to track down electrical problems that someone else rigged up. I got my Clymer manual and the original shop manual for my 1970 K1 and slowly but surely I have rewired the parts that have been worrisome for me. The bike runs great and just this afternoon I went and bought a Buss flasher from a local auto parts store. The old flasher relay was toast and I wasn't sure if the new one would work but was surprised when the flashers kicked right off! I didn't want to pay $30 for a new one from a Honda dealer either. Patience and determination (a shop manual doesn't hurt either) will get all this stuff buttoned up before you know it. Keep us posted.

Cheers!

[laser145]

Looks like your field coil in the alternator is bad.... just to re-cap; with the black+white wires off the reg. connected together and the bike running and revved to say 4,000 rpm, the battery voltage does not increase ?, right.
Next would be to test the field coil; put meter on 10x ( bike turned 'off' ) and probes on the white wire ( disconnect from black again ) and the green wire on reg. ( pull it off the reg. first) meter needs to read 7.2 ohms or very close to that. If the needle swings all the way ( same as touching the probes together ) then coil is shorted, or no reading = coil open circuit............
Basically the 10.7 volts you had on the black wire should have dropped when you connected the feild coil to it ( put black to white )., suggests an open circuit f/coil.

Well I didn't rev it up, I'll do that before I proceed...

But just so I'm clear... to test the field coil: disconnect the white and green wires from the reg. Touch the + probe to the white, - probe to the green... and see what happens?

I'll get on this later... Have to take the wife out in the city...

Thanks so much for the help

Cheers

Ok, I redid the previous test with the black and white reg. wires connected together, taking a +probe reading at the junction, -probe reading on the -battery terminal...when revved to 4000RPM...no rise in voltage.

Next I performed this final test...disconnected white and green from reg. and took a reading with the bike off... no volts...

[Spanner 1]

O.K..... not quite right ( my bad explainations!).... all good up to testing for voltage increase; were looking for V increase at the battery with blk/wh. joined, so probes on battery + and - for this test.
With the bk and wh. together were by-passing the regulator and giving the field coil the max. voltage available which, in turn, should induce the stator coil to produce ' something' above the battery voltage and we should see the V. creep-up when the bike is revved......
The next part would be the ohms test on the coil....... Rx10 setting

[TwoTired]

Next I performed this final test...disconnected white and green from reg. and took a reading with the bike off... no volts...

Well, that's no surprise.  The white wire is powered from the Vreg.  And the vreg is powered from the keyswitch.
With it disconnected and switched off it better not have voltage on it.
The alternator needs power to create an electromagnet with the field coil.
The power comes out of the alternator from the Stator (when rotor is spinning);  3 phase AC on the yellow wires, which is rectified to DC by the rectifier so the bike and battery can use the power.

Did you measure the white to green resistance (disconnected from vreg)?

Did you measure the voltage across the white and green with it connected to the vreg and key switch on?

Did you measure the voltage across Black and green at the Vreg with the Key switch on?

Cheers,

[Spanner 1]

With respect, please re-do the charging test as above before getting into TT's stuff ( we've acertained all that anyway, just a different path ).