Topic: Whacky Turn Signal Behavior

[Popwood]

It's a '75 550K. This first started last Friday. Never had any issues before. Rolling along, straight ahead, flip the turn signal switch, just get "on" and no blinking. Slow down for turn, engage clutch, turn signals work fine.  Let the clutch out, signal lights but no blinkie. Now, add to this, problem intermittent. Also, when signals are working, turn the handlebars to the right to start a turn, blinking stops. Straighten up the handlebars, start blinking again. This does not happen on a left turn when signals are working properly.

This evening I took the left side controls off to inspect, expecting to find some corrosion or a loose wire. All looked fine. Sprayed the switch connections with some electrical connection cleaner, buttoned it all up, no improvement. In fact, worse than before. What gives?

[thehammer]

stock handlebars with the wiring inside rotten out? bad flasher maybe but it sure sounds like a short near the handlebars. loose groundwire? i have the same bike with a similar problem, but consistent. seems like the current needs to load up into the flasher to make it cut out. i turn on the signals and the light comes on but doesnt flash for a few seconds, then in flashes on and of very rapidly and slows down to normal. I'll bet a regular old bus flasher would work. I'll try it out, let ya know what happens.

[TwoTired]

For Popwood:
All the bar connections route into the headlight bucket.
I'd look in there to see if connections are loose.

[Popwood]

This bike is so pristine (still just under 10K miles) and came from northern Michigan which seems to have a good climate for preservation, so I doubt there's anything rotting inside the bars. Ground wire could be it. And given that it goes funky when turning the bars to the right makes me wonder if there's a connection getting stretched, breaking connection (somehow?). Will have to investigate further. Any and all suggestions welcome.

And Two Tired, I'll open the headlight bucket spaghetti can and sort through that.

Thanks, everyone.

[Popwood]

I'm thinking it's battery level. I checked all the connections and looked inside the headlight shell-- man, was that clean, clean, clean, no corrosion, dirt; like the day it left the factory, really amazing.  Had it on the battery charger for less than two hours and found slight improvement. Rode it and at high rev only slight improvement. Will leave it on battery tender overnight and check tomorrow. I did find a few days ago the electrolyte in the battery was lower than it should be. Could be battery won't hold a good charge. Shame on me for not checking sooner. Will report back.

[Gordon]

I'm thinking it's battery level. I checked all the connections and looked inside the headlight shell-- man, was that clean, clean, clean, no corrosion, dirt; like the day it left the factory, really amazing.  Had it on the battery charger for less than two hours and found slight improvement. Rode it and at high rev only slight improvement. Will leave it on battery tender overnight and check tomorrow. I did find a few days ago the electrolyte in the battery was lower than it should be. Could be battery won't hold a good charge. Shame on me for not checking sooner. Will report back.

The problem you described in your first post doesn't sound anything like it's caused by a low battery.  Typically, if the battery is low and causing problems with the turn signals, it shows up when the engine speed is low, not the other way around, and turning the handlebars or pulling in the clutch lever shouldn't make a difference if that's the problem.

[Popwood]

Gordon, yes, I find it strange that turning the handlebars or pulling in the clutch would have anything to do with electrical issues, yet there it is. Some improvement with battery charge. There's no stress on the wire harness to the turn signal switch nor the signal grounds. The only thing that changed is I discovered that the battery electrolyte level was low, refilled with distilled water still the problem. The problem first occurred with low electrolyte (it looked to be below the plates slightly) so now I'm determining how well the battery will hold a charge. 

[Gordon]

Gordon, yes, I find it strange that turning the handlebars or pulling in the clutch would have anything to do with electrical issues, yet there it is.

Don't get me wrong.  Turning handlebars can definitely be part of an electrical problem (usually a loose connection or intermittent short), just not typically one that has anything to do with a low battery.  You may very well have two separate issues happening at the same time. 

[Popwood]

Thanks, Gordon, I'll be looking at both as a possibility. Just seems that potential battery problem and turn signal issue both crop up at same time. Hmmm.

[seaweb11]

If one of your refrigerator lights goes out and the other one is still on and the refrigerator is still running would you look to make sure you had power

Not meant as sarcasm.  but you do not have a battery issue on this one

[smileswithadimple]

Could be the bulb.  I had a similar issue with my 500/4.  Bulb could be over turned in the housing.  That was the issue in with my bike.  I turned it back and it works perfect.  Also, some electric grease might help too, or a whole new bulb??  GL!

[Popwood]

seaweb, you just had to mention "refrigerator." Woke up this morning to find it not working and it's only 4 years old. 

Yesterday evening I charged the battery for a couple hours. Reading before charging 12.4 volts. Charging made only slight improvement in voltage. On a short ride, a slight improvement in functionality of signals. But noticed the headlight was very dim as well. I also looked at the switch again to make sure the lines weren't stretched and everything OK. Charged battery overnight and reading this morning was 12.93. Rode to work this morning, about 7 miles, 5 at highway speed, and battery level back down to 12.29.

Still get normal blinking and sound when clutch lever pulled in. Also noticed last night when signal not blinking but switched on, both rear running (amber) lights on.

[TwoTired]

It is not standard to have rear amber running lights.  In fact, it is illegal in many places (must be red).
The stock bike only has front running lights which go dark during blinking.  The rears are normally single element bulbs (1073)  while the fronts are 1034 dual element.

So, from what you have said, we can deduce that your bike no longer complies with a stock wire diagram.  We will need some accurate info to help with troubleshooting.

One thing you can do.  Kick start with a fully charged battery.  Then take and record voltage measurements at idle, 2000, 3000, 4000, and 5000 RPM.  Watch for voltage change trends up or down.
If you have a light switch, do this test again with lights off.

Cheers,

[Popwood]

Thank you, Two Tired. I apologize for mispeaking the standard nomenclature. The "running"  lights I referred to are really the rear turn signal lights. The "tail" light is red and I have every reason to believe the wiring is all stock.

I checked all four blinker bulbs and they are fine and very clean and corrosion free. The have the single and duel elements as you describe.

I have also now determined that the the front headlight has only a very weak light in high beam setting and no light in low beam setting. This is with engine running. When not running Hi beam has a faint glow on the filament and nothing on low beam.

I am charging the battery again over night. But before I did that, I took the following readings not long after riding home from work, about seven miles. At 2,000 - 13.6v; at 3,000 - 13.88 v.; at 4,000 - 14.9 v.; at 5,000 - 15.3v. and at 6,000 - 15.15v.

I also checked all the connections again in the headlight bucket and all looked good. I just don't get why the blinkers operate perfectly with the clutch lever pulled in?

Thanks all for the help.

[TwoTired]

Looks like your charging system is cooking your battery.  Are you having to add water to it frequently?  Can you electric start the engine?

It certainly sounds from your description that you have a weak connection in the power path to the headlight.

Imagine a multi-strand wire with half it stands cut. Or, the wire to terminal connections were corroded, or a poor crimp terminal to wire exits. This could effect how much current/voltage that could pass through it, with higher demand causing more of a voltage drop through the connection.  Poor switch contacts can do this, too (Key switch, headlight switch, etc.).

I don't see how else to proceed without chasing the power from source to destination with a voltage probe.  Don't forget the green return path to Battery NEG terminal is just as important as the POS terminal distribution.
Anyway, with this method, you might find that the VREG is getting a low voltage indication from the battery and then telling the alternator to overcharge it in response.

Cheers,

[Popwood]

I had not checked the water level in the battery this season and discovered Sunday that is was a bit below the top of the plates so filled it up. I have also noticed for some time that the right leg of the center stand gets a white powder on it which I have assumed is from the battery gas escape tube that routes down there. The engine electric starts very easily. What would the operating voltage range be for a system that's properly charging? And isn't there an adjustment for charging level? Is it a setting on the regulator/rectifier? I seem to recall that.

If you would indulge me, Two Tired, do you have any thoughts on the clutch lever making the blinkers work properly vs. barely work?

Would you say the charging issue has nothing to do with the blinkers and the blinkers nothing to do with headlamp. Just seems odd for these things, if random, to happen all of a sudden on a bike that had had virtually no issues and is in excellent condition as far as wiring goes.

And thanks, again, as always.

[Spanner 1]

Shine your battery connections both + and - and the - to frame.... shine, shine , shine......'prolly fixed... IMO.

[TwoTired]

The clutch lever movement does two things.  It changes state of the clutch switch.  And it puts tension on the cable housing, causing it to slightly move anything pressed against it.  Like other wires.

Unless there is a miswire, I can't imagine how the clutch electrical switch can effect turn signal operation.  But, I can see how the cable tension thing can move flaky connections.

Keep your hands off the Vreg adjustment until you know that it is getting true info about what voltage the battery has.  That adjustment is NOT there to compensate for dodgy electrical connections as some have assumed.  Fix the problem, don't compensate for it.

If you have power routing issues, that could tie the charging, blinkers, and headlight problems together.
The white powder you mentioned could be corrosion.  Try to track exactly where that came from.  As a corroded connection is not electrically sound.

Gonna have to learn how to probe for faults, I think.

Cheers,

[Spanner 1]

Your hypothesise with other replies should only be explored after your battery connections have been assessed... IMO.

[Popwood]

Thanks TT and Spanner. I'll check all this out and report back.

I'm almost certain the white stuff on the center stand is battery acid or battery fumes corrosion as it has stripped the paint.

[Popwood]

So I checked out the corrosion on the center stand and YIKES, it's now on my beautiful pipes!!! It is battery acid and the bottom of the tube from the battery was slightly damp. I think I overfilled the battery Sunday as this corrosion had never been spread around so much.

[Spanner 1]

Have you one of those #$%*ty aftermarket ' solid state' regulators/rectifiers installed ?
'Cos they'll 'boil' yer battery @ 14.5V all day long with no let-up, unlike the original set-up... a lot more kind on the battery IMO.

[Popwood]

Have you one of those #$%*ty aftermarket ' solid state' regulators/rectifiers installed ?
'Cos they'll 'boil' yer battery @ 14.5V all day long with no let-up, unlike the original set-up... a lot more kind on the battery IMO.

Nope, standard set up.

[ken736cc]

This sounds as if you have a grounding problem. You may be actually grounding through the inner clutch cable. I have seen this before. This is easy to test. Attach a long wire to the  battery negative terminal. Touch the other end to the handlebars. Try your lights and signals. If this is not the problem, touch the wire to the forks,headlight ears, and turn signal stalks.
 If this works, you can try to find the problewm in the harness, or make new additional ground leads.

Hope this helps.

[rm56]

Because the problem happens when you turn your bars you have a shorted wire. The miles don't matter, you still have 35+ year old wiring dude. Take a close look at where the harness feeds from the left frame head into your headlight. Also the wiring in your handlebars should be looked at. They can dry out. AN easy way to feed them back in is to use a small stiff wire taped to the end the same way electricians run romex through a house. It works like a charm and I put silicon lube on the outside of my taped leads. I'll bet you have worn out insulation on a turn signal wire? Good luck