Topic: Canadians... The Queen, like or hate?

[spitcrazy]

Ok so, Her Majesty is visiting. Do you like her?

First, some facts so you don't go off on the old anecdotal hate mongering.. "she's not my Queen", "my tax dollars" routine.

1) Her Majesty does not get paid from tax dollars. She is the caretaker of the royal real estate holdings and jewels on behalf of the owners....  we commoners. In fact the revenues from the real estate tours of palaces etc. which should be hers is mostly returned to the state by her. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080319091703AA0Y4mH  http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100131134615AAztLyf

2) If you are a citizen of a commonwealth country, she is your Queen like it or not.

3) yes, we pay the tab for her visits because she can't afford it.. but as much as it costs, they don't come that often and it costs as much to pave a few miles of highway.

What bothers me is that when royals visit the US, the citizens get much more excited and show up in droves to catch a glimpse and she is truly not their Queen... but it seems they wish she was. We Canadians are showing up in fewer numbers every time.

I challenge Canadians to remember that the Monarchy is a huge part of what makes us Canadian. What with the Quebec separatist movement and mass immigration from countries that don't respect our way of life... we change to suit them... and import their cultures here, that we should be embracing all symbols of what being truly Canadian is, including the Monarchy.

Yes, the US is our protector and good friend and ally. Yes Americans seem to love us when we visit the USA. Yes we are inextricably bound to them physically, economically and culturally... We love the USA but we should re-embrace our history and rediscover what makes us Canadians. Just as Americans so lovingly embrace their citizenship and country. It's OK to be Canadian, It's good to love your country, It's good to have a Queen.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

[demon78]

As I get, got older I realize what makes your, our country is a set of values and traditions and as such she is part of our traditions and if we threw her out and became a republic we'd have to establish a whole new set and it positively boggles the mind what our politicians would think up as new traditions, I was out of the airforce before the amalgamation of the 3 services and all the traditions were swept away and history became a bad word now there is a faint glimmer in the wheels mind that maybe the military for one needs traditions, and I would think that the citizenry needs a history and tradition to make it a country, but am I a monarchist, no a resounding no and do I think this country should get off it's knees and stop being a colony, yes whether it be of the UK or the states.
Bill the demon.

[SOHC4ever]

Nationalism has always bothered me. The Queen doesn't make me a Canadian any more than eating poutine does. I'm proud of my fellow Canadians, and proud of the country we live in, sure, but as near as I can tell, The Queen, Revenue Canada, The RCMP, The Federal and Provincial Governments, The Canadian Olympic Committee, The major political parties and their ilk are sucking notoriety, recognition and money from the hard-working, well intentioned people who make this country great. I'm disappointed that in 2010, we as a nation haven't figured out that the sense of pride that we associate with our country and its roots is really no more significant that the similar feelings of the fans of any commercial sports franchise.

I don't see what the Americans have to do with this at all. Is there a line in the sand? Choose your allegiance: The Yanks or the Brits? FWIW, the Americans are mindwashed by the same patriotic crap that Canadians are, just with a different label. The difference is that Canadians feel like it's OK to hate on Americans for being overly patriotic. POT! KETTLE!

In conclusion, cast off your chains people!

[The_Crippler]

I think all he was getting at was that she's not our queen, but we seem to get more excited when she visits than you do.

\Not Canadian, don't really get it anyway.

[spitcrazy]

Great points guys! That's what i was hoping for: sensible well thought out arguments. It's so cool to know that a guy who would call himself BILL THE DEMON obviously is a well informed dude that doesn't breathe out of his mouth. Same to you SOHC4ever. Well done.

I mentioned the 'merkins because, well, we are all NATO, G8, etc. I'm not going off about patriotism or nationalism, rather I feel being connected to your past is important for a nation just as it is for a family. A sense of grounding if you will.

Bill, as for being a colony, we are so small by population it's inevitable that it does feel that way. We are landlocked with the USA powerhouse. But the rest of the world seems to respect Canada on our own merits and the monarchy hasn't given us directives or made our laws for a long time.

What the monarchy continues to do is provide the Governor General whom must rubber stamp, in the name of the Queen, all laws passed in parliament. If by chance WE elected sociopaths to parliament, not merely the corrupt idiots as we have now, that rubber stamp could come into play to keep lunatics like Hitler or whatever from overrunning our government. That's the theory behind the commonwealth parliamentary systems anyway. The American system has safeguards in place to prevent similar: the electoral college, the two houses. I have heard Ben Franklin even said it's important for Americans to bear arms to keep lunatics from becoming President or at least rebel against such things (paraphrasing).

I do think we should have a little pride and protect our imperfect system of government, constantly looking to improve, especially when we have a separatist movement the could very well become the official opposition in our government.

[spitcrazy]

I think all he was getting at was that she's not our queen, but we seem to get more excited when she visits than you do.

\Not Canadian, don't really get it anyway.

She's our commander in chief, like the President is for the USA. I don't expect you to 'get it' as it's two hundred and thirty four years since the USA went on her own way. Thanks for the clarification, that's what I was getting at. Lately, our Royalty has been disrespected by the public here. The great thing about Americans is that, even if you personally hate your President, when need be, you rally around him. I have seen this many times in "man on the street' polls on the news. I find it admirable and wish we would treat our head of state with the same respect.

BTW an early Happy Independence Day to you. Just so you know, if you don't already, July First is our anniversary of confederation.

[SOHC4ever]

What the monarchy continues to do is provide the Governor General whom must rubber stamp, in the name of the Queen, all laws passed in parliament. If by chance WE elected sociopaths to parliament, not merely the corrupt idiots as we have now, that rubber stamp could come into play to keep lunatics like Hitler or whatever from overrunning our government. That's the theory behind the commonwealth parliamentary systems anyway. The American system has safeguards in place to prevent similar: the electoral college, the two houses. I have heard Ben Franklin even said it's important for Americans to bear arms to keep lunatics from becoming President or at least rebel against such things (paraphrasing).

I do think we should have a little pride and protect our imperfect system of government, constantly looking to improve, especially when we have a separatist movement the could very well become the official opposition in our government.

Well, I think that we could improve it lots by severing ties with the Crown. Our Prime Minister successfully prorogued parliament TWICE in recent memory, by order of the GG, simply because he couldn't win! Effectively, the Queen and the Gov. Gen are "laundering" an African style parliamentary dictatorship. 

[spitcrazy]

Or clearly, they are NOT interfering, GG didn't order it, rather rubber stamp it because the law allows for it. Prorogation is an accommodation in Canadian law that Harper exercised, legally. The GG was OBLIGATED to stamp it and she is not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination and was actually anti-monarchy before she was selected by Paul Martin for the post.  He, nor the Queen, had anything to do with the creation of the law. Detractors of the law ie.: the parties not currently in power, decry the use of it. Tables turned, they would do the same thing, not try to abolish that law.

[demon78]

Not to harp on the military, one of things that Afghanistan has done for us is to make us understand that we have good people that are prepared to bleed for our country and that we have had in the past many who bled and died mentally and physically for us and since Vimy it is for us, not some one else. As far as a colony goes I suppose that I'm reacting to a whole bunch of things from the quote "business leaders" that whine when the yanks impose new tariffs or our dollar goes up etc, we have been told that we're trading nation ,well trade for christ's sake, if the yanks are giving us a hard time then find someone else to trade with and if the queen is mentioned we don't need 3 chorus's of There will always be an England, yes we have to respect trading and social practices but we don't have to be slaves to them. You know it's funny that whole separatist thing, I went to the Ottawa Jazz festival a while back and in one of the Malls there was an old Van Doo doing a fund raiser for I think a regimental charity he was sitting slightly hunched over probably from the weight of the "Gongs" on his chest and I wondered how he felt about "Separatists" and if I wasn't such a polite Canadian I would have asked him because I don't think he fought for Quebec, I'm dammed sure he fought for Canada.
I also think he fought against the balkanization of the world by whoever and I wonder how that squared with le Quebecois  beliefs, from the medals that I saw he was probably too fierce still to put up with the drivel. Enough of my babbling it's time for another cuppa and some toast, shower then more home made tomato cages.
Bill the demon.

[Retro Rocket]

The Queen, like or hate?

She's ok but i wouldn't sleep with her........

Mick

[mick7504]

The Queen, like or hate?

She's ok but i wouldn't sleep with her........

Mick

ORRR C'mon Mick
Not even Dame Edna Everage   
http://www.zimbio.com/Dame+Edna+Everage/pictures/pro

[demon78]

Mick7504 you might have when she was younger.
Bill the demon.

[Magpie]

Gotta love her - she's the same age as my mom.
Cliff.

[ryder60]

She wears such f*ckin silly hats.

I used to be very ambivalent but I like to have a queen now.  One of the characteristics about constitutional monarchies is that we split the political leader from the head of state.  In the USA the President is the political leader and the head of state.  That, in philosophical terms, is one step closer to a dictatorship.  Now nobody get offended because I'm not saying that's going to happen.  I'm just pointing out that that is the structure of every banana republic around the world.

At the same time one can't help but be non-plussed, maybe even revolted, by the marriages and the sacks of sh*t her children have married.  If that is what we identify as Royalty we'd all be put off.  I guess it just shows us that many families have to deal with the same sorts of issues.

Finally, the Governor General doesn't have to rubber stamp the government's policies.  We just expect them to.  In the past they haven't always, e.g. Byng re: the Arthur Meighen govt.  vs. King which was a mistake on the GGs. part   This GG. was smart enough to not throw the country back into another election too soon.

In conclusion, I like the Queen and her family.  The tabloids and the flies that follow them around are off-putting and unfortunate.

[ryder60]

I just remember a true story and thought I'd share it here.

About 35 years ago my friend Tom, who has spent a lifetime involved with Ducks Unlimited, drove to Regina to a big meeting they were holding there.  Tom arrived and checked into the hotel and asked some bell-boy , or whatever, where the hospitality room was and the guy gave him a room #.  Some short while after, Tom made his way down and walked into an empty but well apportioned room, walked over to the bar and when asked said he would have a beer.  He sat at the bar and in a few minutes the door opened and in walked a guy who paused and walked over to the bar, ordered a drink and turned to Tom and said, "Hi, I'm Philip"  So Tom and he chatted about their mutual involvement with Ducks Unlimited for about 30 minutes until some secretary came and got Philip away to some meeting.  Tom had in fact walked into the private bar (hospitality room) of Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh who was exceptionally gracious and approachable. 

[demon78]

The thing I remember about the Duke, was when we'd be standing at attention and being inspected the duke would stop and talk to the people and ask questions that showed interest also he wouldn't ponce about so that we wouldn't have to broil under an August Sun or conversely under a "Scotch Mist" at 45 F unlike some of the "dignitaries" who loved the camera, we had a guy who had a "Burma Star" and Phil stopped and chatted with him for a moment or so, asked him when where and how, then moved on, frankly I don't remember what he and Liz looked like even though I was within 3' of them several times because if our eyes moved, then the warrant would have plucked them from our heads and fed them to us rectally.
Bill the demon.

[spitcrazy]

At the same time one can't help but be non-plussed, maybe even revolted, by the marriages and the sacks of sh*t her children have married.  If that is what we identify as Royalty we'd all be put off.  I guess it just shows us that many families have to deal with the same sorts of issues.

I guess she thought that if she allowed them to marry commoners, she hoped to re-connect with her subjects on some level. Funny though with Charles and Di, it seems he didn't marry for love, rather a sweet young piece of errr ehem!

and yes the hats are atrocious, women....  just as weird when they're old as when they're young. They'd paint your SOHC pink if you'd let em!

[spitcrazy]

I just remember a true story and thought I'd share it here.

About 35 years ago my friend Tom, who has spent a lifetime involved with Ducks Unlimited, drove to Regina to a big meeting they were holding there.  Tom arrived and checked into the hotel and asked some bell-boy , or whatever, where the hospitality room was and the guy gave him a room #.  Some short while after, Tom made his way down and walked into an empty but well apportioned room, walked over to the bar and when asked said he would have a beer.  He sat at the bar and in a few minutes the door opened and in walked a guy who paused and walked over to the bar, ordered a drink and turned to Tom and said, "Hi, I'm Philip"  So Tom and he chatted about their mutual involvement with Ducks Unlimited for about 30 minutes until some secretary came and got Philip away to some meeting.  Tom had in fact walked into the private bar (hospitality room) of Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh who was exceptionally gracious and approachable. 

A friend of mine tells the story that his freind, a political left wing activist, was invited to a reception for Prince Charles a few years back. He went in hating him. Just on principle alone. When he was seated, he was across the table a few seats down and as the Prince proposed a toast, the guy noticed that the cuff of Charles' suitcoat had been mended, it was clear to see! Rather than buy new, the frugal Heir had his tailor mend it! The guy left the reception and became a supporter of the monarchy.

which leads me to congratulating all of you so far for stating your well thought out opinions in concise language rather then just jumping into this thread with a bunch of ridiculous insults and pejoratives.

[SOHC4ever]

A friend of mine tells the story that his freind, a political left wing activist, was invited to a reception for Prince Charles a few years back. He went in hating him. Just on principle alone. When he was seated, he was across the table a few seats down and as the Prince proposed a toast, the guy noticed that the cuff of Charles' suitcoat had been mended, it was clear to see! Rather than buy new, the frugal Heir had his tailor mend it! The guy left the reception and became a supporter of the monarchy.

Way to stand on principle, there! Maybe next time he ought to inquire about standards of garment repair before deciding who he's going to support, huh?

Not to harp on the military, one of things that Afghanistan has done for us is to make us understand that we have good people that are prepared to bleed for our country and that we have had in the past many who bled and died mentally and physically for us and since Vimy it is for us, not some one else.

Sorry, Bill, but I can't imagine any good thing about Afghanistan. Those poor kids were sent over there to die for no good reason at all. There is no benefit to this country, perceived or otherwise, that can come out of our troops being in Afghanistan. They're not "bleeding for us", they're bleeding for the military industrial complex, pipeline interests and a manufactured sense of nationalism. Also worth mentioning is that it's an abominable waste of money.

Canada day is coming up and, as I have for the past 9 or so years (!) I plan to sarcastically and tastelessly extol the virtues of our continued flattening of cave dwelling brown people at the requisite family bar-b-que. It always turns heads and I'd like to think that it gets people thinking. I think about it real hard at tax time.

[mick7504]

Mick7504 you might have when she was younger.
Bill the demon.

Yeah, She was a good looker Bill.
Mick

[spitcrazy]

Sorry, Bill, but I can't imagine any good thing about Afghanistan. Those poor kids were sent over there to die for no good reason at all. There is no benefit to this country, perceived or otherwise, that can come out of our troops being in Afghanistan. They're not "bleeding for us", they're bleeding for the military industrial complex, pipeline interests and a manufactured sense of nationalism. Also worth mentioning is that it's an abominable waste of money.

Maybe Afghanistan is all about Opium and the Taliban and Al Qaeda's use of it to bankroll themselves and export terror. What were the Russians there for? Us? All we get is official Gov't statements. I doubt that they are the real reasons. When the Russians left, the Taliban took over in the vacuum. I seem to remember that about that same time, CBC reported junkies in our cities overdosing from ultra cheap, extremely pure heroin, so pure, the normal mound of powder they cooked up killed them.

Saturday, I'm off to Winnipeg to see her Majesty in all of her aged, faulty, normal human being who just happens to be head of state and wears a crown, not by her own choice but out of historical duty. A duty that she takes seriously for her commonwealth and her people with grace and dignity despite her and our failings. I know a tear will come to my eye.

Nationalism can be dangerous, pride is a deadly sin. I'm extremely happy to be Canadian and want to see it preserved. Evolve yes, but not at the cost of forgetting our roots and formation, I hope that our customary politeness and tolerance is never washed away by values where women are expendable property that must cover their faces in public. When this country was finally  gelled sea to sea, with people from all over Europe living as neighbors, they and their children moved into loyalty to the English throne and a pride in that grew, in the Kowalchuk's to the Hrudinek's, from the Smith's to the Lechner's. In this parliamentary Monarchy that is Canada we mustn't forget these things. Same as you feel some pride in your own fore-father's achievement's, whether that he was a doctor or survived a tough life as a farmer. It matters!

[demon78]

Sorry SOHC4ever I tend to agree if we were going to war I think it was the gov's duty to tell us and ask for our input, but no Stevie has to act like one of the big shots and send us, I should have rephrased my statement to say the only thing to come out of it was the realization the military goes where it's told too.
Bill the demon.

[spitcrazy]

Sorry SOHC4ever I tend to agree if we were going to war I think it was the gov's duty to tell us and ask for our input, but no Stevie has to act like one of the big shots and send us, I should have rephrased my statement to say the only thing to come out of it was the realization the military goes where it's told too.
Bill the demon.

Bill, Chretien sent us ( http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanistan/timeline.html) and he said in the speech that we would be "in a combat role." not peacekeeping, combat. But it is correct our input was not sought. NATO obligations made the government pass by consultation.

Happy Dominion Day!

[demon78]

Thanks for reminding me I have a tendency to hold him responsible for more than he's done. Bad demon, bad and as you say happy dominion day.
Bill the demon.

[ryder60]

Am I mistaken but didn't Chretien send combat troops for a limited time and brought them back.  I thought Martin made the commitment to NATO?  Does it make any difference? I'd think not from today's perspective.

[spitcrazy]

Fact is, don't pin it on Harper, he inherited it. I am not particularly a Harper fan or anything, just credit or blame to whom it is due.
 I am unsure if you are correct, ryder, but Harper isn't the guy. Interesting tho' I should look that up.

Bloody hell, Canada, she's a nice place to live tho ain't she?!!!  We are so fortunate.   The best to you all, I wish we could sit down and have a good old English Ale (it's better beer!) together to celebrate.

[demon78]

Guys if I finish this place before I die, I'll invite you all to come and spend at least a weekend, I'll throw a "Purple Jesus" party to end all, we, can talk sedition, world, domination, the overthrow of organized religion and children programs, and why bikes free the soul in a Zen mode. Whether it's English Ale, Steam Whistle or Moose head or Capilano Old Style there'll be suds to float in and we'll celebrate our good fortune to live in the "Great White North" with all it's faults and benefits. Hurrah Canada.
Bill the demon.