Topic: Project Phoenix, First timer total rebuild.

[Monster]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this, so if I'm messing up just let me know/move it/lock it.

So last summer I bought an old 750 k3, I was working 12 hour days so I didn't find enough time to get anything done last year (Excuses I know).  Anyways this year I decided I wanted to tear it all down and paint everything and build it back up.  I figured the best way to learn a bike would be through this method.  So I started pulling everything apart, bagging and labeling to keep things organized.  Things were going good, I was going to have to replace everything aside the frame and the motor, and maybe the headlight.

So I knew it was going to be a big over haul, but I kept my spirits up because it was what I really wanted.  But as I got down the final bare bones of the bike and I was cleaning years of grime off the frame I found a spot of rust the size of a dime.  I had found rust prior but it was all superficial surface rust, so i figured this was the same.  I began to sand it a bit to just clear it away but it was staying, so being the expert mechanic that I am (not), I decided to poke at it with an old screw driver.  Well the screw driver went right through.

As devastated as I was I kept my spirits up telling myself its just a small patch, I'll cut it out and weld it over.  I have friends who are competent welders so I figured it would be ok.  So cutting and welding day comes, and we cut out the rust only to expose much more rust, all of this rust is located around the bottom right side of the bike around where the foot peg would be.  Well my friends told me they weren't competent enough to fix this area of rust.

So here I am, with only a motor.  Now what I am asking of you much wiser sohc4ers, what frames are compatible with a k3 motor, i have no idea if the engine mounts differ over the years, I'm sure I will be able to find some info if I keep searching.  

Also, as I plan to rebuild the motor, I'm not sure where to begin, it hasn't ran for probably 10+ years.  If someone could give me a sort of laundry list of things to do to get this in top shape I would be indebted.  I was going to post some pictures of the motor, with questions to go with but I'm having some technical difficulties with ubuntu and my xD camera card.

So I will try and get these up as soon as possible.

Summary: I only have a 750k3 motor and some misc parts, where should I go from here?
How should I go about restoring the motor to tip top shape so I can bring this bike back from the land of the dead?

Thanks in advance,

Monster

[Monster]

So I got the pictures I wanted to put up.

So the first Picture is what it looked like after I towed it home.

The second picture is just a plane side shot of the motor.

[Monster]

I noticed that there is a bend or a crack on the casing, not sure if I should worry or how hard it would be to fix this.(First picture)

Another angle of said crack.(Second picture)

I posting a picture of one of the exhaust ports, I notice some sort of corrosion or oxidation?  Should I be overly concerned?(Third picture)

[rickmoore24]

Honestly the bike doesnt look that bad, you have more there to work with than you think. Unless there are some things I can see in the photos. I can't locate the crack in the engine case you're talking about. Can you be more specific as to its location? My K2 project was pretty bad at the beginning but I made the best of what I had, beleive me it wasn't much. I'm sure you can find a K3 frame online somewhere with a title or bill of sale. I'm not a 100% on this but I think the motor you have from the K3 will fit any frame from at least '72-'76.

Rick

[Monster]

So I'm going to post a top shot of the motor, just in case some one see's something that needs attention that i missed.(First picture)

So the screws that hold down the cover for the pistons are stuck and rusty looking, I couldn't get them to budge any advice? (Second picture)

The points (correct me if I'm wrong) cover took some sort of beating, should I be concerned about internals being damaged?  Also the screw was stripped during said beating, how should I go about fixing this problem? (Third picture)

To make all of this worse, when I started seriously working on the bike, and things started to go down hill, my dad went out and bought this (Fourth pic) to spite me? Or I don't know what but I'm seriously bitter.

[Monster]

@Rick

I'm certainly not giving up, just trying to get my bearings here on the forums.  It might no so much be a crack it could be a bend in the casing around where it joins, it may be hard to see its right in the most reflective parts.  And maybe my wording is off I guess some would refer to it as the transmission case?  Sorry I'm pretty much in the dark with all of this, I'm doing all of this mainly because I love bikes, but I love to learn new things more.

edit; I just added a picture with a circle around what I'm talking about.

[rickmoore24]

In the first shot the motor looks ok, save for the missing front spocket cover and a little oil leak. Second shot, spray the bolts with PB Blaster or WD40 and let it sit for a bit. Do yourself a favor and get your hands on an impact tool. It'll save your but. Although I do see some allen type screws in your case, those are cool but soak them too. The points cover is easily replaceable as well as whats inside. You migt need to replace the points anyway but check to see if it's hammered. As far as the gap between the covers its not really a big deal. Just make sure you get new gaskets for the alternator side, well the whole motor really since your rebuilding it. Maybe the PO didn't line up the covers just right so they're not sitting properly, try that first but its definitly not a crack in the case. Oh and find a front sprocket cover, you'll need that. As far as your dads ride, use it as inspiration. Have fun with you build, theres a lot of guys on here that love these bike including myself. The old timers on here have seen it all, just be sure to use the seach function of the site and post pictures when asking questions. Good luck with her.

Rick

[KB02]

+1 on the "crack." nothing to worry about, just a misaligned cover.

Judging by the pictures of the engine, I would be willing to bet this engine has been apart before. The allen head screws, the head that has been painted black... really makes me suspect some internal work has been done.

Since you are planning on doing a rebuild anyway, get a full engine gasket kit, an impact driver, a torque wrench (for the rebuild) and a good manual. Take really good measurements and let us know what you find inside.

As for the frame, post a pic of the rust damaged area and let us see what you're dealing with. If your welder friends say they don't want to mess with it I'm sure it's bad, but our well trained eye's might see something different. As for a new frame, I think any 750 frame from 69 to 78 would fit (I could be wrong on that, but pretty sure...)

As far as your dads ride, use it as inspiration.

Yeah, and then as soon as you are on the road you'll be able to kick his bike's butt all over the place. 

[rickmoore24]

Yeah, that's what I really meant. I guess I didn't paint on enough sarcasm, but KB02 knows whats up. 

[Monster]

   So the frame I had was poop, it had been chopped into a bobber with a bit too much of a rust hole for me to fix, not ugly but not what I wanted.  So I hunted a bit found a guy with some old parts asked if he had a frame.  He said he had one for a 75 or 76 wasn't sure, so I went down there turns out its for a K3 (whoop whoop).

   He also had a gas tank for it.  Not sure the year on the gas tank will put up pictures.  Now tomorrow I'm going to try and see if I can use my old bosses Sand blaster to start cleaning stuff up.  Then it will all get primed until I figure out colors.  Once thats done I'm going to rip apart my motor.

Oh and can anyone refer me to a good thread or even a good method of cleaning the gas tank.

   I had started a thread in the tech section for the motor tear down, http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=73984.msg821927#msg821927  but I've been thinking I might merge them into this one for a one stop shop for my build.

- Monster

[KB02]

As for the tank, do a search for rusted-tank or cleaning-out-a-gas-tank or other such related terms. It's been covered a bunch with a few different methods. How bad is the tank? Is it surface rust, or is it Been-sitting-in-saltwater-for-three-years rusty? Does it need to be sealed or just cleaned out?

POR 15, Safest Rust remover, The Works Toilet bowl cleaner... they will all help clean out a tank. Sometimes the addition of some nuts and bolts dropped in the tank with help pull off some of the rust scale in there as well. Lot's of ways to do it.

[JimJamerino]

You will probably want to make sure the frame has a title.  I don't know about your state, but in most places getting a salvage title for a titleless frame is a major PITA.  Much easier to find a titled frame (or even a titled parts bike) than dealing with the government's foolish bureaucratic procedures.

[Monster]

@KBO2
 
  It definitely has not been sitting in saltwater for three rears, I can still see shiny metal in it a the bottom, where it pops up tho I see a bit of surface rust.  And being the lunatic/paranoid kind of guy that I am, I really want things to be spotless.  And thanks for the key word searches, I'll definitely be using them.

@emperorspartacus

  He gave me a bill of sale for the frame, and I live in Manitoba Canada so I'm not entirely sure what the deal will be for registering it.  But from what I've gathered it's more or less go to them and say Hey I built this, now register it to me.

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Also when I bought the gas tank I noticed the fill cap was bumped in a little, and I pointed it out and he's like oh those old tanks are just soft and he stuck a bar in it and bent it back to normal.  Am I a gullible fool or is this true, he told me a story of a friend dropping a beer bottle on his gas tank and dented it.

Also also, once I clean the gas tanks insides should I be "relining" it ?  Is that even the proper term?  I've heard people talk about bladders, and I'm a little in the dark.

Thanks


- Monster

[KB02]

There are two schools of thought on lining the tank:
1.) If the metal is in good shape with no holes and there is no rust, there is not point in lining the tank.
2.) If there was rust at one point in time, clean it out and line it and you will never have to deal with it again.

The biggest things with lining a tank is that you HAVE TO TAKE THE TIME AND DO IT RIGHT. It took me the better part of a week to do a tank lining using the PRO 15 kit (which I highly recommend). If you rush through it, it won't stick.

[Monster]

@KB02

   So looks like I'm going to line it.  Thanks.

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I'm posting some pictures of the frame and the tank,  I was wondering if anyone could spot the year on the tank.  And how I should go about modding the frame to mount the tank.

Thanks,

Monster