Topic: '75 Cb550 A break in the electrical

[phrige]

Seems like there's been a lot of talk of CB550 electrical issues.

My problem is my headlights and turn signals are not getting any juice. When I jump a Black into the Brown/white I get appropriate power to my headlight and front signals.

I'm not getting anything to my turn signal relay either. I'm not sure where the break could be. Any advice or help on this matter. Something I can check or meter?

[Accolay]

Maybe check the fuse box, see if it's melted.

[phrige]

haha Seems good at the moment Acc.

Is there supposed to be any reading at turn signal relay for continuity?
When I checked there was none.

I can't think of where else to check, Cause if powers going into the T Sig Relay, then the whole thing should have power, no?

[Accolay]

Maybe check the fuse box, see if it's melted.

I only say this, because it happened to me

Lets see, while I eat my morning oatmeal...I like to troubleshoot these types of problems, even though I'm not very good at it...yet...

Is there supposed to be any reading at turn signal relay for continuity?

What parts are you checking for continuity across? I think you should take voltage checks instead. When you say you jumped a black to the brown/white, which wire are you referring to?

You're sure you got power running through your fuses?

[phrige]

You know what Accolay, you nailed it. I don't know if your remote viewing or what. I decided to unscrew the fuse box and investigate closer. The red - main circuit had a major overload at some point which caused a little bit of meltage and as well as the the wires in back look black and sooty and the bottom wire is slightly frayed. 1/4 of the smaller bits arn't soldered anymore.


Sorry for being unspecific. I was jumping in the headlight bucket something from the black circuit to the brown and white.
From turn signal relay the black power cable has proper power at relay.
I checked continuity back from black and grey at relay.
When the turnsignal control is put at Left, its good, When to the Right, there is no continuity. Again im ganna theorize it maybe  lack of power in brown and white since that is wired into the right portion of the turn signal.

Sorry for the long post, and again, Accolay, Nothing but Net on the fusebox suggestion.
 

[phrige]

Did you get the Honda Part for your replacement, I mean its a little steep, $54.. I've read about people buying blade style fuse boxes to replace it for easier fuse replacement. I rather go that route, since the Honda MotorSport store near me doesn't stock fuses. Waiting week or so, sucks. and kinda pricey, not that bad but .99 vs like .10 adds up i spose.


Here I go Pinching Pennies.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Speed-Tech-E-370165-ATC-ATO-Fuse-Panel-6-Blade_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5d27065fbaQQitemZ400086687674QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I think this may work, anyone have experience with this type of setup?

[Frostyboy]

I think this may work, anyone have experience with this type of setup?

Just looking at that pic of fuse box, it looks to me like that has a common power supply to all 3 fuses. That's not how the standard fuse box is wired.

[phrige]

Thanks Frostyboy, I wasnt sure exactly what that mean "the common power supply".

Luckily I did see some other NOS or old fuse boxes in good shape for 550's on ebay. Guess I'm better off with that route.

[Frostyboy]

Okies. What I meant by 'common power supply'; see the stud off to one side with the nut?  It looks to me like that is the power in to all fuses inside the box. As you can see by the diagram in my prev post, the power supply to all our fuses are seperate. That doesn't mean that you won't find an aftermarket fuse box, just look for one where there is no connection between the individual fuses in the box. They seem to come in 4 or 6 fuse configurations, so you could use the extras for spare fuses I suppose.

[Accolay]

NO! Spend less!

I found one on amazon for $8.19 shipped. Check it out under "Tips and Tricks" menu:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=73681.0

[Accolay]

It happened to me here:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=38214.msg399872#msg399872

TT, as always, gave an exceptional response. Scroll down on that post to find out why.

[phrige]

wow Awesome info Accolay! TT's response is great, really shed a lot of light on the whole fuse problem.
 The link to the Amazon Fuse box is great, I realized I hadn't searched this forum for fuse box info. I was scouring another forum I frequent and some how overlooked checking this one.

Thanks Frosty for explaining it for me, I don't quite have a head for electronics.. yet. I have been reading up since and got some begginers book on the subject.

Hey Acc, did you end up soldering the ends onto the fuse box or installing spade ends? I'm ok with a soldering iron, but I think spades maybe more convenient. I can prob chop up my old fuse box use the wiring to get some more length on it, and spade up the tips.

 Really appreciate your help guys! I keep thinking about tattooing my bike with the names of all the people who've helped me through troubleshooting lol. Engrave them in my rear fender maybe?

[Accolay]

I haven't had the time yet to install it, so it's sitting next to the desk here. I think I'll go with the blades to install it though, and plenty of dielectric/silicone grease on the back. I like to think about soldering all of my connections, but in the end, I worry about having to take something off.

[phrige]

Well accolay i hooked that fuse box over the past week or so. first off it arrived SUPER fast, was supposed to come the 20th and it came 2 biz days from when I bought it (Friday, arrived Monday the 12th)

The better blade ends you get to crimp to your wiring the better. its a little rough to get on and at first I was concerned with the fuse box connections breaking.  But they held up well, just have to make sure not to move up and down and just keep pushing in.



Tested out fine, now that thats out of the way, I'm back to hacking away at this turn sig thing.

when i turn the key to position 1  red mains are good,  brown and red stripe is low at 0.45v, browns are the same at 0.45v
position 2 the only thing that changes is brown at full voltage (which makes sense since i believe thats the parking light mode)

I just recently took out the speedometer, I believe I have to connect Brown/white to green to complete that circuit.

I'm not getting headlight or turn signals at all.




also I'm replacing my kill switch, since there is a break in continuity. It doesn't work right. opened it up and its gnarly inside. I have a good 2 position switch, I'm wondering if it will work alright, On the side it says its 10amp 125v. Would I instead need something 12v to match the bikes power?

[rider615]

Sup guys, I'm new poster here but just happened to be looking for the same thing an I run across ur post. This is what I found earlier, its cheap and readily available at the local parts store or wally world  . I hope its not a problem with me posting this link. Anyway the guy here pretty much cut the wires and crimped two female connectors to each end and put a blade fuse in it, nice and simple and its easy to tuck away if your trying to hide your wiring, unlike a fuse box, or you can buy the inline fuse holders which cost more but don't really seem worth. Any way check out the link, I just picked up everything for my 74 cb550 and in all it costed me about 5 bucks.  
http://www.austincaferacer.com/tag/fuse-box/

[Accolay]

I have one of those waterproof connections in right now for my Main fuse, and I like the simplicity of the tailight and signal fuse setup, but I'm going to go with the small box, because I like that it will mount in the same place as the original box. Otherwise, whatever works, right?

[Accolay]

I love these types of problems...when they belong to someone else...

Wait, what's wrong with your kill switch? Maybe just clean it up instead? The kill switch itself is really simple, so if there is a break, it might not be in the handlebar switch. I have some pictures of disassembly here:

http://s581.photobucket.com/albums/ss258/accolay_accolay/1977%20CB550F/Handlebar%20Switch%20Disassembly/Right%20Handlebar%20Switch%20Disassembly/

As for the ignition, are you taking the voltage measurements right off the ignition switch? Do you have an original Honda ignition switch, or is it EMGO? Apparently these EMGO units fail fairly often (Andy told me).

Removing the Speedometer...I wonder if you'll end up with blown fuses without adding resistance to the circuit, or maybe the bulbs add negligible resistance.

[Accolay]

You know, I had a bad blinker relay and it caused my front signals to stay on all the time, maybe yours is the opposite...

But enough speculation...

Man, you just gotta go through one thing at a time.
So, no turn signals work at all? back or front?
The headlight doesn't work at all high or low beam?
Do you have running lights on in back?

The headlight and turn signals are separate issues, but it sounds like maybe a bad return somewhere. Maybe one of those green wires in the headlight spaghetti has a bad connection?

[phrige]

Sorry if I wasn't specific, Those were readings I took at the fuse box. I checked the ignition it seems fine, it is a new Emgo unit, but really has almost no actual runtime on it. I keep reading how these guys fail, wondering if there is anyother solution? Are there any other companies making these ignitions?

To make it clear too, I had jumped a wire from the black(power) to the Brown and white in the headlight bucket. which gave power to the front signals and headlight. I took that out so as to find the real root of this problem.

Turnsignal relay had full power when I jumped it, Have to try it now without.

 So now I have no headlight, or turnsignal or brake light. I do have brake light when the key is turned into position 2 (Parking Light Mode).

 I opened up and tried to clean up my existing kill switch a couple of times. The metal piece in the cap that is supposed to connect the two brass circles wasn't touching properly. I think it was way too far up in the cap. seemed in rough shape in general so I was hoping to just swap it out and solder in a new switch. then modify the controls to fit it. I just figured this may not be a one size fits all game, some switches may not be able to handle the voltage. The 10a 125v that I have seems overly capable to the bikes 12v system no?

Good point on the resistance in place of the speedo. I'm hoping to replace it soon enough with a modified gauge, in the meantime for testing sakes maybe I'll just hook the old one up. If I did connect the circuit instead of having the speedo, how would that effect the system, Too high of a current for the parts in the latter part of the circuit? Sorry for so many questions, my curiosity gets the best of me!!  

[phrige]

thanks for the linkage  Rider, Its always good to hear what helped other people. And reliable places to shop. Advertising oneself is a little different but even the little webstore owners need some help.



Hopefully I get this stuff sorted soon. I just found a new set of twisty backroads near my home. really itchin for some riding!

[Accolay]

You know, you could just give it to me and you wouldn't have to worry about any problems any more 
I think you're getting closer. Just go through the wire diagram with one circuit at a time.

The metal piece in the cap that is supposed to connect the two brass circles wasn't touching properly.

]

Is the spring underneath that metal piece still there?

Hrm, no idea about what will happen if you don't put in resistance. Maybe you'll melt the new fuse box, or maybe nothing. I think I used to know how to figure that type of stuff out mathematically, but I've forgotten.

[Accolay]

Just saw this one:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74123.0

[rider615]

thanks for the linkage  Rider, Its always good to hear what helped other people. And reliable places to shop. Advertising oneself is a little different but even the little webstore owners need some help.



Hopefully I get this stuff sorted soon. I just found a new set of twisty backroads near my home. really itchin for some riding!

Not a prob man, oOo twisty backroads huh, if i'd get off my a$$ and actually work on my bike maybe I could ride to. Just got it running the other day was having some electrical issues to, found out it was the the starter safety unit keeping it from firing. Now one of the dang carbs is flooding because when i cleaned them I forgot to put one of the float needles back in  and now I can't find it, so I'm getting new carb rebuild kits. Maybe later on if I'm feeling any unlazier I'll start my own thread lol.

[strynboen]

klik to get big pic

[phrige]

haha good luck Rider, hope you hone the bike soon. This nice weather's making me itchy.

Thanks for the link and help Accolay. That is a great post link, Very similar situation. I still have my stock ignition, thinking of putting it back on to avoid trouble.I'll def retest my current Ignition, then decide... Yea its definitely getting there. I'm constantly reading through this electrical diagram, and hoping to make some progress this weekend. With the kill switch, i don't remember seeing the spring there. That could be the prob. I realize now, duh, the switch i have wont work. I'll try to find something at least 15amps.

I'll just wire the speedo in for testing sake since i plan to have it back in there in the future.

constantly reading reading reading about these various moto problems, I also gatta update my build thread with some new pics of the recent additions too. Also found a new hardware, and supply store new me that im thinking of exploring. "Fastenal" dunno if anyones familiar with it, but its supposed to carry lots of metric bolts and such.