Topic: Cam Chain Strength Data

[BMHS]

Guys,
Does anyone have any cam chain data for DID, RK, etc. Not who sells what, or at what price, but real chain force data, just like you can get for any drive chain made by any manufacturer? All I ever hear is, well use this chain, because so & so sells it. They normally note that the side plates are not scalloped, but flat, so that must be better, except that's never where cam chains break. It almost always at the pin joint. I'm not trying to be hard, I just would like to make my decision based on good data. Is there anyone out there that can help?
Brian
I'm calling Aki at DID today to see if he can help.

[BMHS]

Just a follow up to my call to Aki @ DID America. The good DID chain is 219FTH X 94, and he allowed me to order 10 sets. I need some of them this winter for engine builds, but probably not all of them, so if anyone is interested, email me back at image@alexssa.net. I'm not sure of the shipping costs yet, so it maybe a week or so till I know the real price, but it won't be very expensive.
Brian

[NitroHunter]

Just curious, what pin joint strength data did you get?

[MRieck]

What style side plate?

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Yes,please tell us more.Not enough info on cam chains and them being the weakest link(IMO) or the way they were tensioned has sure been a challenge. Bill

[scunny]

on the cam chains I've had the pleasure of looking at lately for a 650.
of the 2(Possibly)original, both DID, one set of pins are a smaller diameter than the other. my new "morse" chain is of the larger pin diameter. all seem to be of the same steel composition with the laymans file test.

[BMHS]

The top number is 219T, the bottom number is 219FTH, which has a ground thick- wall roller, & a better pin fit. Approximately 20% stronger. Has anyone ever seen rear chain that did not have scalloped side plates. Pin material, crimping & roller construction are all anyone should be concerned with. Do not used the DID gold plated 219 "space" chain that is floating around, it's GoKart chain that was designed to deal with dirt. It was made to handle big offsets between the front & rear sprockets.I hope this helps.
Brian

Pitch
 7.774
 7.774
 
Bushing diameter
 4.59
 4.59
 
Inner width
 5.00
 5.00
 
Pin diameter
 3.00
 2.61
 
Thickness of inner plate
 1.2
 1.2
 
Thickness of outer plate
 1.0
 1.2
 
Ave. tensile strength (kN)
 8.04
 9.02
 
Fatigue strength (kN)
 2.16
 2.70
 

[rangelov]

I can see one reason to use non scalloped sideplates.  It would be more uniform sliding, rolling action in the tension and guide assemblies.  The scalloped side plates may have more movement due to following a cam shape.  The non scalloped side plates would be more gentle on the guides.  Generally, it is the side plates that run on the guides, not the rollers.

The scalloped side plates main benefit is that there is less mass; they weigh less.  That may be considerable mass on a drive chain.

That's my $0.02.

Edit:  I did change from link style timing chain (flat) to roller chain (scalloped) on my Buick V-6.  I was concerned about wear on the rubbing block and tensioner.  It worked fine for over 100K mi.  I never opened it up to confirm wear.  I might check it when I get around to removing the engine.  It may be a non issue, but if you're picky...........

Chains fail due to pin wear or side plate breakage.  A larger pin requires more side material, which the previous example has (thicker).

[MCRider]

I can see one reason to use non scalloped sideplates.  It would be more uniform sliding, rolling action in the tension and guide assemblies.  The scalloped side plates may have more movement due to following a cam shape.  The non scalloped side plates would be more gentle on the guides.  Generally, it is the side plates that run on the guides, not the rollers.

The scalloped side plates main benefit is that there is less mass; they weigh less.  That may be considerable mass on a drive chain.

That's my $0.02.

YEs that's what I'd always heard. THe whipping, vibrating scallops act like chainsaw blades on the tensioner parts. Hence the flat plates.

OCICBW

I'd never checked but assumed the pins were bigger on the HD chain and that's where the strength lies. I'll be to that point soon and will check.

I've never heard of a cam chain advertised as HD ever breaking. THough I'm sure someone like KOS has done so.

[MRieck]

The top number is 219T, the bottom number is 219FTH, which has a ground thick- wall roller, & a better pin fit. Approximately 20% stronger. Has anyone ever seen rear chain that did not have scalloped side plates. Pin material, crimping & roller construction are all anyone should be concerned with. Do not used the DID gold plated 219 "space" chain that is floating around, it's GoKart chain that was designed to deal with dirt. It was made to handle big offsets between the front & rear sprockets.I hope this helps.
Brian

Pitch
 7.774
 7.774
 
Bushing diameter
 4.59
 4.59
 
Inner width
 5.00
 5.00
 
Pin diameter
 3.00
 2.61
 
Thickness of inner plate
 1.2
 1.2
 
Thickness of outer plate
 1.0
 1.2
 
Ave. tensile strength (kN)
 8.04
 9.02
 
Fatigue strength (kN)
 2.16
 2.70
 

Yes. I have an RK on my FJ that is not scalloped (530LFO). Plate shape question is in regards to using it with an M3 cam chain tensioner. "Peanut" side plates are not recommended secondary to wear issues.

[kos]

I can see one reason to use non scalloped sideplates.  It would be more uniform sliding, rolling action in the tension and guide assemblies.  The scalloped side plates may have more movement due to following a cam shape.  The non scalloped side plates would be more gentle on the guides.  Generally, it is the side plates that run on the guides, not the rollers.

The scalloped side plates main benefit is that there is less mass; they weigh less.  That may be considerable mass on a drive chain.

That's my $0.02.

Only cam chain I ever had break, was when I was using the Pops Yoshimura gear type tensioner with center steel roller wheel. Bad idea. And it was not full side plate chain.

KOS
YEs that's what I'd always heard. THe whipping, vibrating scallops act like chainsaw blades on the tensioner parts. Hence the flat plates.

OCICBW

I'd never checked but assumed the pins were bigger on the HD chain and that's where the strength lies. I'll be to that point soon and will check.

I've never heard of a cam chain advertised as HD ever breaking. THough I'm sure someone like KOS has done so.

[kos]

The top number is 219T, the bottom number is 219FTH, which has a ground thick- wall roller, & a better pin fit. Approximately 20% stronger. Has anyone ever seen rear chain that did not have scalloped side plates. Pin material, crimping & roller construction are all anyone should be concerned with. Do not used the DID gold plated 219 "space" chain that is floating around, it's GoKart chain that was designed to deal with dirt. It was made to handle big offsets between the front & rear sprockets.I hope this helps.
Brian

Pitch
 7.774
 7.774
 
Bushing diameter
 4.59
 4.59
 
Inner width
 5.00
 5.00
 
Pin diameter
 3.00
 2.61
 
Thickness of inner plate
 1.2
 1.2
 
Thickness of outer plate
 1.0
 1.2
 
Ave. tensile strength (kN)
 8.04
 9.02
 
Fatigue strength (kN)
 2.16
 2.70
 

Yes. I have an RK on my FJ that is not scalloped (530LFO). Plate shape question is in regards to using it with an M3 cam chain tensioner. "Peanut" side plates are not recommended secondary to wear issues.

Yes, we do not recommend using a peanut shaped, side plate chain with M3 Tensioner for reasons above.

KOS