Topic: Powder coating or DIY rattlecan or Buy a compressor and spray paint

[laminarflowone]

I am in the middle of restoring a 1976 CB750 that has some rust in spots on nearly all parts.  I asked a local powder coating shop for an estimate on the frame/exhaust/engine/tank/fork tube(maybe?) and was quoted at 300 to 500 dollars for everything including sand blasting and a single color.  Is this a reasonable deal or should I be exploring a DIY method like aerosol paint or automotive paint?  This is my first bike and I want the finish to last so I won't have to completely rebuild this for quite some time.

Thanks!
Josh

[ev0lve]

Subscribed. I got a $500 quote here in Seattle as well so it's probably reasonable - rims, fenders included, no exhaust, no tank.

On the fence about enamel paints. Did my triple tree up in appliance enamel and it's held up just fine to use and UV so far - 1.5 years - unlike my powdercoated from the manufacturer bars which have faded.

Maybe some folks will chime in with some definitive info.

[laminarflowone]

I mean, I am a graduate student so I have a definitive budget for this project, but I plan on riding this bike frequently and if it will last significantly longer, I'm willing to spend a little more for quality.

Yeah, he said 200 dollars for the frame alone.  I need to do the exhaust as well because the PO rattle-can painted them black and sanded the chrome away....
I also make carbon fiber parts on the side for custom jobs and occasionally for my actual research so I would get use out of a diy powder coat or paint kit.

[ev0lve]

I mean, I am a graduate student so I have a definitive budget for this project, but I plan on riding this bike frequently and if it will last significantly longer, I'm willing to spend a little more for quality.

Yeah, he said 200 dollars for the frame alone.  I need to do the exhaust as well because the PO rattle-can painted them black and sanded the chrome away....
I also make carbon fiber parts on the side for custom jobs and occasionally for my actual research so I would get use out of a diy powder coat or paint kit.

Word I've gleaned is ceramic coating is preferred for the exhaust.

NOW you'll get some opinions 

[The_Crippler]

$500 is a really good deal - but as pointed out, you need something super high-temp for the exhaust, like ceramic.  I had the ceramic done on my pipes, and I love it.

[Stev-o]

I wouldn't go crazy with the powdercoaing, don't do the exhaust or the tank. You can get a better finish with laquer on the tank and sidecovers.

[Lumbee]

..I like PC. It is tougher than auto paint, but generally doesn't have the depth/quality. I think it does tend to "smudge" quicker, but from a protective stand point I think PC is better than paint. With PC, you sandblast and coat..that it..not chance for moisture to get to the metal. Auto paint looks great, but a good quality job will cost twice as much, and if the guy doesn't know what hes doing, you can end up with problems later. PC is a pretty idiot proof process as long as you have the equipment. My vote is for PC.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Had my frame and all black parts done with a second clear coat $250. Had the engine (below cylinders) done by a different shop that specializes in detailed expensive bicycle powder with fading, multiple colors and graphics. Double coated also. Fair amount more than the frame guy but Damn, it looks killer. If your guy does good work I'd do it for that price! Lot of work to do it properly.

[laminarflowone]

Wow! 250 total? The guy who is doing it primarily refinishes bicycles and seems to be fairly new in the business...I only want one color: black, and it doesn't need to be anything fancy, just durable.  On second thought, I will end up rattle-can painting the gas tank to save some bills, and people on this forum have been kind enough to share enough examples of gas tank eye candy.

From my understanding, it will cost ~100 for a compressor and ~100 for a powder coating kit and ~250 to build an appropriately-sized oven.  Another consideration is that I will be leaving the house I am renting around spring semester to go do my post-doc, so I won't be able to bring something like an oven with me...Whereas, I could leave the compressor and painting spray gun at my parent's house nearby.

Also, the is the general consensus that powder coating will be worth the expense over a DIY rattlecan job at these prices?

Thanks!

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

My engine guy sent my cases etc out for plastic media blasting as to not affect the surface appearance with serious media meant to remove paint, etc. They normally blast on site but they are not set up for plastic media. He taped them off first. Got them back. Baked them the first time to sweat out/burn off any impurities inside the aluminum or on the surface, taped them off again, sprayed the black powder and baked that, did some metallic silver highlighting on the shift pattern and around "Honda" and the ring on the alternator cover, baked that, then put on a matte clear to cover it all and baked that. $$$ Now I will spray the completed 900 cylinders and the $2K JMR head with PJ1 satin. Seems a shame but it must be done this way. Guess you'd just say I'm FN nuts but I've always wanted to do it right one time!

[Terry in Australia]

If you are on a budget mate, just buy a good quality epoxy enamel rattle can paint and no-one will know the difference, and it'll last as long as the bike will. Cheers, Terry.

[BeSeeingYou]

A friend did a pro paint job on my 79XS650 around 1982. It held up till the last few years (still glossy but cracking) and now will be redone.   I am not sure PC retains it's gloss for anywhere near as long as a good paint job.

[Accolay]

A hard question only you can answer for yourself. 300-500 bucks to me is 1/3 to 1/2 my monthly pay while school is in session, and I work hard and long for that money.

I decided to paint my frame because I was worried about getting big scratches and chips during reassembly. I had them media blasted and painted in the garage. I've never done work like this before and I scratched the hell out of the bike in a few spots. Now I can repaint those spots myself. I used Interlux brightside polyurethane paint.

[KB02]

We have seen some really nice rattle can paint jobs on the site. I have a compressor and a paint gun, so I went the automotive paint route with my bike. With either paint you use, it all comes down to prep, prep, prep, and prep. AND, be prepared to do some sanding and polishing once you have your paint down.

As for powder coating, what the others have said it right on. You've been quoted a good price. The PC is tougher than paint so great for frame and rims and what not. If you want everything to match, be very careful with your color choices.

[laminarflowone]

@KB02, if you don't mind me asking, but approximately how much did it cost for the automotive paint setup, minus air compressor?

Thanks everyone for the replies.  The prep part has me the most worried, because I can only chemically strip and manually sand the parts, which may not be enough for many of the complex shapes and parts.  Sandblasting, it seems, would get into all the hidden nooks and crannies, and the professional powder coat would be something that would last a bit longer.
I will ask him if he can plastic media blast or soda blast the engine parts.

[wildcatmahone]

I have painted my 750 frame using Eastwood's Chassis Black over their Rust Encapsulator with great results! Have gotten plenty of positive comments and some have thought that it was a PC it came out so sweet. If your gonna go with rattlecan get the higher end stuff you'll thank yourself.
As far as all the other bits like gas tank/headlight/side covers I know you don't have a compressor (neither do I) I would build a positive pressure spray booth like I did recently and get a setup like this from Harbor Freight.

http://www.harborfreight.com/hvlp-turbine-spray-system-66297.html

For $200+ you'll be ready to lay down some good urethane paint no compressor/regulator/air water filters/ spray guns needed. I too am on a budget and have limited space so this is the best way to go to get professional results with pro materials.

-Wildcat

[Duke McDukiedook]

You won't be able to get quality PC equipment for that cheap.

On your budget, a good rattle can job would be the best alternative.

[laminarflowone]

Thanks for the responses!
@wldcatmahone, that was very helpful!  Do you suggest doing the chassis black paint instead of a spray paint, and can I spray clear coat over the chassis black to protect it?

[wildcatmahone]

Yeh the chassis black comes in aerosols and quarts if I was to do it all over again I would ditch the spray cans and go with that hvlp turbine setup. Just because you have a much wider choice of primers paints and clears. It's a whole another ball game when you can spray whatever you wish and not rely on spray can color choice. Check out TCP Global.com they have a wide range of colors in their in-house paint for 30 bucks a quart can't go wrong with that. It's called "Restoration Shop" and have gotten good reviews. Eastwood makes a "diamond clear" which is decent and will go on top the chassis black but not necessary.
Last but not least build a good spray booth to keep the crap off your paint job and wear OSHA approved protection accordingly.

[Terry in Australia]

Here you go mate, here's a pic of my June BOTM winning K2. All painting was done with rattle cans. Total cost for paint was less than 200 bucks. Cheers, Terry.

[ev0lve]

What do you guys think of PreVal as opposed to a can?

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-267-Paint-Spray-Gun/dp/B0000AY19M/ref=pd_sim_dbs_sg_2

[wildcatmahone]

What do you guys think of PreVal as opposed to a can?

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-267-Paint-Spray-Gun/dp/B0000AY19M/ref=pd_sim_dbs_sg_2

?? Your joking, right?

[SohRon]

I'm curious about the PreVal, too. Anyone tried it? I have a friend who's a professional house painter and he swears by these for touch-up and getting into tricky areas - though I realize there's a difference between house paint and lacquer... . I've never used it, but it's supposed to be equivalent to a rattle-can.

I'm also wondering what luck anyone has had with super paints like POr-15 or Rust Bullet Black Shell industrial-strength paints? Claims are that these paints are as tough as PC, and act as a rust barrier. They can be sprayed or brushed, as they're a self-leveling paint. Anyone tried these on their frames?

[laminarflowone]

I am also curious about the POR paint.  Oh boy, this means I need to actually clean out the garage to fit a paint booth in there somewhere...

I think I will end up getting the turbine setup because you never know when you might need to paint something.

BTW, Terry, your bike looks absolutely stunning; if only mine can look as good.  Right now, its in the process of dismantling because I've been busy with making the final edits on a couple of my papers.

Also, how do people typically prep their surfaces (particularly unusual surfaces) without sand or soda blasting them?  Just chemical strip and sand?

[77cafe750]

i have used por15 on the gloorboards in my chevy almost 3 years ago and havent had a problem with them since

[ev0lve]

What do you guys think of PreVal as opposed to a can?

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-267-Paint-Spray-Gun/dp/B0000AY19M/ref=pd_sim_dbs_sg_2

?? Your joking, right?

Nope. The main advantage, other than the better nozzle and that you can clean it, is the possibility of mixing up or using some custom color. Planet blue comes to mind  

So who's used it and what did you think?

http://www.preval.com/what-is-preval

Costs like $3.99

[Terry in Australia]

I am also curious about the POR paint.  Oh boy, this means I need to actually clean out the garage to fit a paint booth in there somewhere...

I think I will end up getting the turbine setup because you never know when you might need to paint something.

BTW, Terry, your bike looks absolutely stunning; if only mine can look as good.  Right now, its in the process of dismantling because I've been busy with making the final edits on a couple of my papers.

Also, how do people typically prep their surfaces (particularly unusual surfaces) without sand or soda blasting them?  Just chemical strip and sand?

Thanks mate, and as far as prep on a frame goes, the OEM paint was very thin, so a light sand to remove any rust and give the new paint a "key" (making sure that you "feather out" any big scratches) and a degrease with "prep wash", prep solve" etc before applying a thin "mist" coat of etch primer is all you'll need. Generally, there's no need to take a frame back to bare metal unless it's been previously painted by a toothless tard with a 6 inch paint brush!  

[laminarflowone]

Harbor Freight Tax and Shipping gets expensive, so I might want to Amazon Prime this order...

http://www.amazon.com/Earlex-HV3000-Spray-Station-Sprayer/dp/B000E24CDA/ref=sr_1_110?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1279718629&sr=1-110

http://www.harborfreight.com/hvlp-turbine-spray-system-66297.html

Any thoughts  compared to the one Harbor Freight offers?

[Duke McDukiedook]

I dunno, I'm not sure that a $100 all-in-a-box system would be all that great.
Usually when you go that cheap all you get is cheap and then you realize you should have shelled out a bit more moolah for something better.

I think if you do some wet sanding between coats you can do as good a job as Terry did on his with rattle can.

[wildcatmahone]

If you can make it to a HF store you can use the 30 % off coupon available to print online. Couldn't find much difference between the two other than the HF unit is aluminum and the Earlex is plastic. The HF one looks to be a new model with no alternative tip sizes and the Earlex 3000 looks to be discontinued but has other tip sizes available. As a general rule, I prefer to strip part down to bare metal using aircraft stripper a fiber wheel and a wire brush. Then recoat using modern paint and materials. No offense Terry but seriously, acrylic lacquer sucks, auto paint has come a long way the past 30 years I would personally recommend using a single stage (i.e. no clear needed) acrylic enamel (w/ hardener) or urethane enamel job over some 2 part epoxy primer. The urethane being a much better choice IMO, newer technology harder and more durable. Do it once and do it right. Your paint job will be tough as nails and look great doing it. Good luck with your choice.

-Wildcat

[laminarflowone]

Thanks, the harborfreight one looks 10x more heavy duty.  The nearest harbor freight is ~45min away, so I either have to make my moped 10x more reliable, or bribe my house mate to drive me by paying for his gas or a free lunch...What is this about the 30% off coupon???!??

I will try to look for urethane enamel with 2 part epoxy primer from tcp or eastwood.  I'm thinking pearl black maybe?

[mcuozzo]

I don't know about the 30% online coupon, but I'd like too

You can find a 20% off coupon in most bike magazines - chopper ones for sure, but some of the others as well.  Also sign up for thier e-mail specials and you get coupons as well.  Also wait for the part you want to go on sale and then use the coupon.  They'll try and tell you that you can't combine a sale price and a coupon, but you can.  Talk to the manager.  It's not written anywhere that you can't combine them.  (you can not however combine cut out or e-mailed 'coupon' and then 20% off).

Good luck,

Matt

[KB02]

@KB02, if you don't mind me asking, but approximately how much did it cost for the automotive paint setup, minus air compressor?

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. The sprayer itself I got with "reward points" from my work. I checked it out online and found similar ones for around $40-$60. The more you spend the higher the quality (in theory). I spent around $150 in paint (Two colors and a clear).


As for this:

What do you guys think of PreVal as opposed to a can?

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-267-Paint-Spray-Gun/dp/B0000AY19M/ref=pd_sim_dbs_sg_2

I have used these to paint a visor on my old Cherokee, a tail pan on an old truck, and my first Cafe racer bike. ORANGE PEAL CITY!!!!! If you can, avoid them.

[Terry in Australia]

No offense Terry but seriously, acrylic lacquer sucks, auto paint has come a long way the past 30 years I would personally recommend using a single stage (i.e. no clear needed) acrylic enamel (w/ hardener) or urethane enamel job over some 2 part epoxy primer. The urethane being a much better choice IMO, newer technology harder and more durable. Do it once and do it right. Your paint job will be tough as nails and look great doing it. Good luck with your choice.

-Wildcat

Thanks mate, and no offense taken, I painted cars and bikes semi-professionally for many years, and you're quite right, acrylic laquer is nowhere as durable as most modern paint mediums. I wouldn't advise using a/l for use on frames as it tends to chip easily, but there are plenty of "rattle can" type paints that will do the job fine, and inexpensively. When I painted the gold bike I was looking for an "original" look for the tank and sidecovers, and as I already had a few rattle cans of the candy gold acrylic laquer on the shelf, it was a no-brainer as to what I was going to use.

Having said all that, a good acrylic laquer finish is easy to apply (particularly for a novice painter) and will last many years if looked after with a good wax every now and then. Honda used acrylic laquer on all of the SOHC4's, and even though they cut corners to keep costs down (like not using any kind of primer under the candy base color and insufficient clear coat to adequately protect the color coat) there are still quite a few good examples of SOHC4's out there in original paint. The other benefit with acrylic laquer is that it doesn't contain anywhere near the levels of dangerous cancer causing carcinogens that most modern automotive paints do. (with the possible exception of water based paints, I don't know much about them) Cheers, Terry.    

[tweakin]

Have you talked with Jeff at Rainier Powdercoating, he is down in the Sumner area.  Does good work and is inexpensive compared to other local shops I have used.  A few of us on the forum have used him with good results.

(253)332-8179 Jeff (Rainier Powdercoating)

-Tweak

Subscribed. I got a $500 quote here in Seattle as well so it's probably reasonable - rims, fenders included, no exhaust, no tank.

On the fence about enamel paints. Did my triple tree up in appliance enamel and it's held up just fine to use and UV so far - 1.5 years - unlike my powdercoated from the manufacturer bars which have faded.

Maybe some folks will chime in with some definitive info.

[Lumbee]

...my fav paint tutorial...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/harley_paintin.htm

[laminarflowone]

Ahhh!! I just got another quote from the local powder coater and he said to do the engine and exhaust high temp silicone and the rest black or any other one stage color would be 300 to 400 depending on the paint he had to remove...

Seeing that the HVLP Turbine will cost ~133, rust encapsulator = 35, 2K Ceramic Chassis Black Gloss Qt = 45, Eastwood's Ceramic Engine Paint Qt Universal Aluminum = 33,Satin Silver High Temp Coating Kit Pint for exhaust = 70, and Eastwood Candeez Vino Rojo Qt and Activator = 50...The project will cost ~366 dollars.  What are the experts' thought?

Also, this may be slightly off-topic, but I noticed some 'cracks' in the engine casing.  Is this serious?  I am on a budget, but I've always been a firm believer in 'do it once the right way' saves more money that skipping corners in the long run.  Thanks for the help!

[Duke McDukiedook]

As long as they are not large and weeping mega oil they are probably just stress cracks, no biggie.

[wildcatmahone]

20 % coupon my bad, unless that quote includes paint on your your tank headlight side covers your better off gettin your own setup. You'll never get a smooth polished finish from PC by the nature of it. Good luck.