Topic: Chain Breaking and Riveting

[phrige]

I've been searching through past posts and come across two recommended chain breakers.

I was wondering if it is necessary to buy a riveter in order to put on a new chain, or if regular pliers and such will be enough to put a new one on. (Standard 530chain) or does it vary by type of master link?


http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0001/

http://pitposse.com/pochcurito.html

[Johnie]

You do not need a rivet crimper if you buy a chain that has the master link clip instead of the master link rivet. To get the chain off you do not need a chain breaker if the existing chain also has that clip on master link. I use a Dremel and cut through the link if it has the rivet master link.

[phrige]

Would the dremel also appy to a clip type? I have a stubborn one on now, though I don't have the proper chain breaking tool. I've been looking to buy a dremel for quite some time, so it'd be a double dip for me if It worked best to buy one to remove my old chain as well.

 To get the new master link on, the new chain the guy is including a clip type link but offered to throw in a rivet type. Which do you guys recommend?

 Sounds like rivet type has a stronger hold but harder to install. Is that right?

[Johnie]

 "Sounds like rivet type has a stronger hold but harder to install. Is that right?"

Yes, the clip on is easier to install. Many bikes have the clip with no problems. My KO had the clip for 20 years. I removed it and just go with the master rivet because that is what my chain came with. It is your call...

[phrige]

Ok cool, That is good to know.

 I much rather get a dremel. Though the chain tool i'm prob ganna need for another project anyway, so I'll end up with both eventually.

Thanks for the advice.

[BobbyR]

 To get the new master link on, the new chain the guy is including a clip type link but offered to throw in a rivet type. Which do you guys recommend?

 Sounds like rivet type has a stronger hold but harder to install. Is that right?

There are clip people and rivet people. All I can say a good clip is better than a badly done rivet job.

If you get a good quality clip type master link you will have no problems. I got my chain from Loudfastugly and he gave me a Tusbuki master link which is a pressed on plate and then the clip just is there for insurance. If you use the a master link, the closed end of the link must face the direction of rotation.   

[phrige]

Cool, yea i took your advice from another thread and went with the LoadFastUgly chain + sprockets too. Brian gave me the option of rivet or clip, I just went with the clip. And the directional thing is definitely an important note.

thanks,

[MCRider]

This may be old news, but back in the day, and now, we would safety wire the clip on. Wrap a strand around the clip and the narrow portion of the peanut shaped side plate. Twist with safety wire pliars. The wire touches nothing else during operation, and assures the clip will stay on.

[markreimer]

Resurrecting an old thread for a second here...

I bought a 530 o-ring chain with a rivit-style masterlinlk  for my K4 cb750. Turns out there isn't enough clearance for an o-ring chain so I'm back to a standard 530 that came with a clip-style link. I cut the chain to length and the backing plate snapped into the masterlink grooves easily, with the clip snapped on after (made sure it was facing in the right direction).

My question is that I've seen a lot of people talking about a special tool to press the base plate and clip together, but I can't seem to find any exact info on this. What are the proper steps to installing a clip masterlink? I know the baseplate is firmly in the rivit grooves, and the clip is facing the right direction. Is that it? Do I need to squeeze the two together or something?

Apologies for such a newbie question... 

[MCRider]

I'm surprised you didn't have room for an O ring chain ... on a 750 right? I just put one on mine no problem.

Anyway, a standard non-Oring chain will not likely have a pressfit sideplate on the masterlink. You just do as you have done. Put the side plate on and set the clip.

Pressfit sideplates come with ORing chains only, in my experience. Both the rivet link and the clip link. Clip links for ORing chains are usually bought as a separate item.

 Likely some exceptions but not in your case.

[Johnie]

I am also surprised you do not have enough room. I have the x-ring on my K4 and K3 with no problems. You should be OK or is there something defferent than OEM sprockets on there?

[markreimer]

I am also surprised you do not have enough room. I have the x-ring on my K4 and K3 with no problems. You should be OK or is there something defferent than OEM sprockets on there?

Nope, Honda 18t front and stock rear. The o-ring chain I had actually rubs in two spots - the chain rubs the back of the engine, and it also rubs around the front too, but that's because I discovered there was a repair done from a thrown chain before I bought it, so there isn't as much clearance as there normally would be. Still, it touches on the side of the chain as well, which is too bad because I have no problem going to a 17t front (to avoid rubbing the front of the case) if I could use the o-ring chain I've already paid for...

[Dimitri13]

My question is that I've seen a lot of people talking about a special tool to press the base plate and clip together, but I can't seem to find any exact info on this. What are the proper steps to installing a clip masterlink? I know the baseplate is firmly in the rivit grooves, and the clip is facing the right direction. Is that it? Do I need to squeeze the two together or something?

Apologies for such a newbie question... 

Some chains I've encountered have a press-on master link plate (meaning you need pressure to press it on, rather than just sliding it on easily), but so far those have only been rivet-type. A clip-type will generally have a regular slide on plate. You'll know it's on when the plate is past the groove for the clip.

[markreimer]

Some chains I've encountered have a press-on master link plate (meaning you need pressure to press it on, rather than just sliding it on easily), but so far those have only been rivet-type. A clip-type will generally have a regular slide on plate. You'll know it's on when the plate is past the groove for the clip.
[/quote]


yeah, that's what I thought, the reason I ask is because on the back of the chain box (It's a RK Takasago 530H chain) it says something about using a special chain installation tool to press the plate on for a press fit or something like that. I'll go double check the exact wording on the box.

Seemed straight-forward when I installed though. The plate snapped into the grooves easy, clip snapped on... what else is there?

[MCRider]

My question is that I've seen a lot of people talking about a special tool to press the base plate and clip together, but I can't seem to find any exact info on this. What are the proper steps to installing a clip masterlink? I know the baseplate is firmly in the rivit grooves, and the clip is facing the right direction. Is that it? Do I need to squeeze the two together or something?

Apologies for such a newbie question... 

Some chains I've encountered have a press-on master link plate (meaning you need pressure to press it on, rather than just sliding it on easily), but so far those have only been rivet-type. A clip-type will generally have a regular slide on plate. You'll know it's on when the plate is past the groove for the clip.

My BikeMaster Brand O Ring chain has the clip typelink bought extra.  There are separate ORings which are self installed onto the link, then the side plate is pressed on. I use a Vice Grip and a 6mm nut to cover the pin and allow pressure on the sideplate, alternating back and forth on the pins till the plate is on far enough to expose the grooves for the clip. The link also came with a spacer to keep one from squeezing the plate too far and compromising the ORings.

Back to the OPs question, he simply has an old style conventional chain that doesn't require pressing.

[markreimer]

ok I checked the box again. What it says is:

"Clip Installation: Use a press-fit tool, not vise grips. After seating the clip fully in the pin groove channels, back out the side plate so that it is tightly fitted against the clip, creating a "Tension Seat" between clip and side place. Close end of the clip must face the rotational direction of the chain."

 

You can see in the photo, it's a normal looking clip master link. Nobody has heard of this kind of thing?

[MCRider]

ok I checked the box again. What it says is:

"Clip Installation: Use a press-fit tool, not vise grips. After seating the clip fully in the pin groove channels, back out the side plate so that it is tightly fitted against the clip, creating a "Tension Seat" between clip and side place. Close end of the clip must face the rotational direction of the chain."

 

You can see in the photo, it's a normal looking clip master link. Nobody has heard of this kind of thing?

Don't quite understand the question. Sure we've all heard of it. No big deal.

If your side plate is not a presss fit, then you have the wrong instructions. Put the plate on, seat the clip and you're done. Very traditional. There will not be any "tension seat". I'd rather safety wire the clip on then monkey with this "tension seat".

If it is a press fit, then theoretically you should use a press-fit tool. However, the proper use of vice grips will work. You have to go teeny tiny bits one pin at a time so the plate doesn't bind. MAybe 15 to 20 total squeezes.  Use a nut to cover the pin as it emerges and transfer the squeeze pressure to the sideplate. I have pictures and I think I posted the method in tricks and tips forum.

If that's your chain in the picture it looks fine. Main thing is if it was a press fit, you don't want to press it on so far that it contacts the inside plates of the front and rear links.

[MRieck]

ok I checked the box again. What it says is:

"Clip Installation: Use a press-fit tool, not vise grips. After seating the clip fully in the pin groove channels, back out the side plate so that it is tightly fitted against the clip, creating a "Tension Seat" between clip and side place. Close end of the clip must face the rotational direction of the chain."

 

You can see in the photo, it's a normal looking clip master link. Nobody has heard of this kind of thing?

I would just put a small bit of silicone on there to hold it in. Degrease it first. It never failed even when racing.

[markreimer]

ok I checked the box again. What it says is:

"Clip Installation: Use a press-fit tool, not vise grips. After seating the clip fully in the pin groove channels, back out the side plate so that it is tightly fitted against the clip, creating a "Tension Seat" between clip and side place. Close end of the clip must face the rotational direction of the chain."

 

You can see in the photo, it's a normal looking clip master link. Nobody has heard of this kind of thing?

Don't quite understand the question. Sure we've all heard of it. No big deal.

If your side plate is not a presss fit, then you have the wrong instructions. Put the plate on, seat the clip and you're done. Very traditional. There will not be any "tension seat". I'd rather safety wire the clip on then monkey with this "tension seat".

If it is a press fit, then theoretically you should use a press-fit tool. However, the proper use of vice grips will work. You have to go teeny tiny bits one pin at a time so the plate doesn't bind. MAybe 15 to 20 total squeezes.  Use a nut to cover the pin as it emerges and transfer the squeeze pressure to the sideplate. I have pictures and I think I posted the method in tricks and tips forum.

If that's your chain in the picture it looks fine. Main thing is if it was a press fit, you don't want to press it on so far that it contacts the inside plates of the front and rear links.

Yes, that is the chain in question here. I guess my problem is that I don't know how to identify if this clip was a press-fit or not as it's the first chain i've installed on my own. I didn't know that there were 'press-fit clip master links' to begin with. I thought it was either a rivit-style or a clip style, and only rivit-style required a tool to peen the rivit. Am I correct in saying that there are some clip-style master links that do require a tool to install? Could someone direct me to an example or photo perhaps?

[MCRider]

Its not the clip that is ever the press fit. Its the sideplate. And you will know as the sideplate will not go onto the pins if it is a press fit, without the aid of a tool.

I would expect all rivet links to have a press fit sideplate. It offers a belt and suspenders approach to keeping the link together.

I would not expect the sideplate of a traditional non-O Ring chain with a clip on the master, to be a pressfit. It would just fit over the pins unaided, then you afix the clip and you're done.

You are correct in saying that there are some clip links that require a tool. But the tool is to press the sideplate onto the pins. Not to install the clip. And I would expect to find those oly on O Ring style chains though there are probably exceptions.

[Johnie]

The O and X ring chains I have installed require the link to be pressed in place. Then I use a flaring tool to flare the ends of the pins. My chains do not come with the master clip, but come with the master shown below. I could order the clip style if I wanted, but see no need too. Click to enlarge pic.

[markreimer]

Its not the clip that is ever the press fit. Its the sideplate. And you will know as the sideplate will not go onto the pins if it is a press fit, without the aid of a tool.

I would expect all rivet links to have a press fit sideplate. It offers a belt and suspenders approach to keeping the link together.

I would not expect the sideplate of a traditional non-O Ring chain with a clip on the master, to be a pressfit. It would just fit over the pins unaided, then you afix the clip and you're done.

You are correct in saying that there are some clip links that require a tool. But the tool is to press the sideplate onto the pins. Not to install the clip. And I would expect to find those oly on O Ring style chains though there are probably exceptions.

Thanks! I understand now. Funny how sometimes the simplest things are the trickiest to understand.

[MCRider]

Its not the clip that is ever the press fit. Its the sideplate. And you will know as the sideplate will not go onto the pins if it is a press fit, without the aid of a tool.

I would expect all rivet links to have a press fit sideplate. It offers a belt and suspenders approach to keeping the link together.

I would not expect the sideplate of a traditional non-O Ring chain with a clip on the master, to be a pressfit. It would just fit over the pins unaided, then you afix the clip and you're done.

You are correct in saying that there are some clip links that require a tool. But the tool is to press the sideplate onto the pins. Not to install the clip. And I would expect to find those oly on O Ring style chains though there are probably exceptions.

Thanks! I understand now. Funny how sometimes the simplest things are the trickiest to understand.

YW! Fun discussion.