Topic: Clutch teardown with questions and PICS

[laser145]

I'm tearing into my clutch because my bike stalls when I try to start out in gear. The bike runs and idles well, shifts fine, but stalls when I try to accelerate...like it's stuck.

There is also a slight rattle that goes away when I pull in the clutch.

I posted a thread asking for advice and was told it may be the transmission...http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74588.0

I hope not, but the clutch is an easier place to start, so that's where I am.


I had to use my impact driver to get the screws out, they were mangled by the PO. Anyone know the measurements for the screws and an online source... I would like to replace with stainless allen bolts but can't find them at my local store.


What is this gaskety gunk? I assume I'll need to redo that to reinstall...


So far so good, I undid each of these 4 bolts a little at a time so as not to warp the aluminum plate


Notice the shape of these indentations... is this normal?


Same thing here...


I measured the springs... they are all over the minimum size, but they aren't all the same as the manual requires... so do they need replacing?


Here's the fun part... the pic is blurry, but can you tell how gnarly that center nut is? The PO must have been hitting it with a chisel.
Any suggestions on how to get this guy off, and should I replace it also? I don't have the spanner wrench, but I know where I can order one if needed...

This is as far as I've gotten now. I welcome any comments or warnings/words of wisdom. I'm going at this on the street in front of my apartment because the bike broke down here. I really need a garage space close by... anyone in Brooklyn want to share?

Cheers

[laser145]

Is this normal? Anyone?


Cheers

[Trav-i]

From what I recall on my 750 that damage on that part or the cover is not normal.  Looks to me like the PO was pretty rough on the poor bike.  I would just go after the nut the same way to PO did, because I would replace it, along with the shaft and cover.  I would think you could find everything on Ebay for a pretty decent price.  As for the springs I'm not sure, I would just say go a head use them again, that's what I did and I seem to have no ill effects from it.

Hope this helps, good luck

Travis

[laser145]

From what I recall on my 750 that damage on that part or the cover is not normal.  Looks to me like the PO was pretty rough on the poor bike.  I would just go after the nut the same way to PO did, because I would replace it, along with the shaft and cover.  I would think you could find everything on Ebay for a pretty decent price.  As for the springs I'm not sure, I would just say go a head use them again, that's what I did and I seem to have no ill effects from it.

Hope this helps, good luck

Travis

I thought that wear didn't look right, but I have no idea what I'm doing here. The PO tore into the bike for sure, and now I'm cleaning up his mess.

I'm actually really frustrated by it all. I had the bike running great, now it seems no one can clearly diagnose the issue I'm having, or perhaps I'm not describing it well enough. So I'm just stabbing in the dark for solutions...

I'm going to look into the clutch as best I can, but I don't know if that will fix my stalling issue... I may end up have to get into the transmission, which I really don't want to do since I lack the proper workspace for such a job.

Cheers

[MCRider]

Yeah I'm suspicious that lifter isn't giving you the proper lift, disengaging the clutch properly. Hard to see in the picture. But there are only a few things it could be. Lifter, sticking plates, that's about it.

[laser145]

Yeah I'm suspicious that lifter isn't giving you the proper lift, disengaging the clutch properly. Hard to see in the picture. But there are only a few things it could be. Lifter, sticking plates, that's about it.

Those bearings have worn spots on each of the plates they contact, also, my springs are above the minimum length, but they aren't all equal...

The manual says they need to be equal as well as within spec... So I guess I should replace.

I'm waiting to get that d@#m nut off so I can measure the plates with my caliper... if they need replacing I'll probably order the clutch kit from David Silver Spares.

[MCRider]

Yeah I'm suspicious that lifter isn't giving you the proper lift, disengaging the clutch properly. Hard to see in the picture. But there are only a few things it could be. Lifter, sticking plates, that's about it.

Those bearings have worn spots on each of the plates they contact, also, my springs are above the minimum length, but they aren't all equal...

The manual says they need to be equal as well as within spec... So I guess I should replace.

I'm waiting to get that d@#m nut off so I can measure the plates with my caliper... if they need replacing I'll probably order the clutch kit from David Silver Spares.

The lifter, yes, suspicious.
The springs, not worried about them.
The plates, your problem indicates stickiness, I'd be inclined to scrub them with something, nylon brush, 3M scrub pad or the like, kerosene, parts cleaner or the like, on the fibre plates. Steel wool to the metal plates.

Wear would indicate as slipping, not sticking.

I could be way off base. Odd symptoms.

[laser145]

Yeah I'm suspicious that lifter isn't giving you the proper lift, disengaging the clutch properly. Hard to see in the picture. But there are only a few things it could be. Lifter, sticking plates, that's about it.

Those bearings have worn spots on each of the plates they contact, also, my springs are above the minimum length, but they aren't all equal...

The manual says they need to be equal as well as within spec... So I guess I should replace.

I'm waiting to get that d@#m nut off so I can measure the plates with my caliper... if they need replacing I'll probably order the clutch kit from David Silver Spares.

The lifter, yes, suspicious.
The springs, not worried about them.
The plates, your problem indicates stickiness, I'd be inclined to scrub them with something, nylon brush, 3M scrub pad or the like, kerosene, parts cleaner or the like, on the fibre plates. Steel wool to the metal plates.

Wear would indicate as slipping, not sticking.

I could be way off base. Odd symptoms.

When the clutch plates do stick, how does that manifest itself in terms of performance? Does the cable get stiff? Does the bike simply not shift?

[MCRider]

Sort of. Try not to impart symptoms. The clutch cable is either stiff or its not stiff, not independent of the other parts, etc.

If the plates are sticky, it will be hard to shift. If at idle, and in neutral, one pulls the clutch in and selects a gear, it will stall. But usually this is a minor issue remedied by some activity, (use) and or an oil change. Maybe some Seafoam too.

If the lifter isn't lifting, same thing will happen. This would happen with the old CB/CL77 style lifters that were an aluminum cup with a thread/ramp in them. A steel cartridge affair would turn at the command of the cable and rise and lower on the thread. They would wear out fiercely and render it shiftless. Poor design.

I've never seen the CB750 style wear to that point. 3 Balls in a plate, ramps on either side. All steel. But if I'm seeing yours correctly, it may be the first.

OCICBW  You've got some strange symptoms and I debated entering this thread. Good luck.

[laser145]

Well thanks for jumping in!

I've never seen the CB750 style wear to that point. 3 Balls in a plate, ramps on either side. All steel. But if I'm seeing yours correctly, it may be the first.

I'm unclear... are the ramps supposed to be there, or is that simply wear?

[MCRider]

Its supposed to have ramps, but they are machined surfaces from the factory. So yours looks proper in concept. I haven't seen one in my hand for quite some time, so I can't say if yours is worn or not. Sorry.

We never really confirmed this. It may just be poorly adjusted.

[Trav-i]

I would say it's worn out, and it's time to replace it.  Last I looked at mine it did have machined ramps, but no chunks missing like his.  Not sure why it did that, my best guess would be that it was improperly installed at some point and someone tried to ride it like that.

[laser145]

I wish I could see what one was supposed to look like... I've searched but haven't come up with a good image.

[MCRider]

I wish I could see what one was supposed to look like... I've searched but haven't come up with a good image.

Trav: That's what I suspect.
Laser: I know I have at least 2 in good shape. I'll look them up tonite and try for a picture.

[laser145]

I wish I could see what one was supposed to look like... I've searched but haven't come up with a good image.

Trav: That's what I suspect.
Laser: I know I have at least 2 in good shape. I'll look them up tonite and try for a picture.

Thanks!

[wrenchmuch]

In the first pic there is a used cover section on the left and a new one on the right .
The second and third pics show the lifter from two angles . My used cover section looks almost new and the lifter looks almost as good as the used cover section . Its hard to see in your image how they look but maybe these will help to compare it to . Its not unusual to find clutch nuts in that condition . Many use a hammer and punch to get them loose . I cut a socket once to act as a nut tool but it didn't last long . A proper nut socket works great .
Mike

[MCRider]

That relieves me of my promise to get some pictures.

Affirmative on that nut. Not uncommon to see them mangled. A chisel works on getting them off, but cuts them up in the process. A punch is only slightly better. The low priced 4 prong tools will often flare their prongs before the nut will turn. In my experience, it takes one of the high priced hardened tools to get it off correctly every time. They are set up to go on the end of an impact or a breaker bar.

[laser145]

Wrenchmuch, thanks for the pics. Those seems to match mine pretty well... I wasn't sure if those ramps were wear, of supposed to be there...now I know

I ordered a new cable for my clutch, and once I get the plates out I'll see if I need to replace them or not... I'll probably replace the springs regardless.

We'll see where it goes from here...

Cheers