Author Topic: 500/550 tips  (Read 2972 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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500/550 tips
« on: February 08, 2006, 08:43:31 PM »
Although I know a little less about these than the "big Four", I've worked a bunch with them, and both my brother and I owned a pair for a long time. (We used to roadrace each other on 'em for fun!)

The 500 was Honda's reply to folks who were "inseam challenged" and those who did not care about raw power, but more civility in their rides. As such, it was Honda's crowning achievment in smoothness, their best before the Gold Wing series.

The quiet and smoothness came at a price in performance, though, and in handling. The quiet mufflers, surprisingly so for their short length, were restrictive to get that silence. Opening up the exhaust a little has big paybacks, but will require rejetting. The airbox was likewise restrictive, and opening up the inlet holes will solve that without buzzing your ears with intake noise. Use a K&N air filter, the one that replaces the stock unit in place, for the best performance with the least annoying noise. Then, either rejet or run D8E sparkplugs afterward.

The inlet tubes were not made for flow, but for easy production and maintenance. You may even find large mismatches in the bores, and the screws that are used for carb balancing often stuck into the passage about 1/8" or more. If you're looking for upper-end HP, match up the intakes tracts and trim those screws. Remove the rough casting marks inside the inlet tubes, too. You can actually pick up almost 10% more flow with these little things.

If you're tired of grabbing 2 handfuls of throttle to get from 0-70 MPH, try this: get and install aftermarket throttle cables, which are thinner than Honda's (but won't have that nice nylon slider coating). Then, inside the throttle grip, lay some small diameter wire in the groove where the cables run in the twistgrip: this makes a slightly larger diameter circle in the grip. Don't make it so big a wire that the thinner throttle cables won't ride in the grooves. (Alternatively, you can get a fast throttle grip, but you'll sacrifice the handy switches in the process.) Test it to make sure it glides smoothly, then reassemble.

The springs on the stock 500/550 were very soft, too soft for spirited riding, and they sagged quickly. Get 100 lb springs for the rear when you replace the shocks, and shim the front springs inside the fork tubes with at least 3 washers of the diameter that fits the tubes inside. Then add air valves to the caps to make air forks out of them: run 10 PSI without a fairing, 15 or so with a fairing.

The 500 frames usually ran straight and true, even to 110 MPH. They really like TT100 tires, if you don't carry touring loads. The Continental motorcycle tires match the lean angle of the stock 500/550 perfectly and make a real good all-around tire for these bikes, lasting a long time and gripping well in the wet (and ice!).

The swingarm bushings and steering head bearings were just like the "big four" and suffer the same maladies. Fix them the same way as the CB750K series bikes. And. if you have over 10,000 miles on the wheel bearings (original Honda), they're gone. Replace them with Timken or Bower bearings for a much more responsive and confident ride.

Hop-ups: Add 4 teeth to the rear sprocket and get a cam. Don't get high lift, get longer duration - BUT: not a LOT more duration, because it is a small-bore engine. A little goes a long way. Adding 5 degrees of overlap and 10 degrees of duration should be your limit for non-racing driving: it will REALLY wake up the "mid-four". Don't bother with bigger carbs: port it in the head instead. The stock carbs can make a lot more HP than they do: make a "pocket" above the intake valve, then raise the exhaust ports about 2-3 mm and smooth 'em out. This will add up to 10 HP to this neat engine, which is a lot.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 08:49:04 PM »
Awesome!! 

Small (and perhaps laughable) request: you are clearly a fan of the "Big Four" (as am I), but woud you have any tips or advice for the "Miniature Fours", IE; the 400?  :)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 08:52:59 PM »
Not as many, Ghoulie, because I worked on the 350-2/350-4/450-2/500/550/750 the most. Only a few things, which will be 350-related, and I'll list them in a future post. The 400-4 was actually one of Honda's best street efforts!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 08:56:25 PM »
Not as many, Ghoulie, because I worked on the 350-2/350-4/450-2/500/550/750 the most. Only a few things, which will be 350-related, and I'll list them in a future post. The 400-4 was actually one of Honda's best street efforts!

Wow! Thanks!  I know there is a commonality between the 400 and 350, so I await your post!

I've seen some 750 fans rip the little 400 for various reasons, (not very many here however), most of them relating to power or size.  I was half expecting it and was pleasantly suprised by your reply!

It seemed the motorcycling press loved the little 400, but the American public wasn't so quick to catch on.

Offline bill440cars

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2006, 02:09:49 PM »
I have a couple each of the 500 and the  550 fours, so I'm enjoying the info about them. I have a 400F also and will be interested in info on it. Also, I have 3 CB450s and 1 CL450 that I'd like to see something on them. I don't want to sound greedy. I just really enjoyed seeing and reading things about these motorcycles. I am really thankful to be a part of a site that has such an abundance of varied info to offer.  Anything posted on these bike is greatly appreciated by us all, I'm sure. Later on, Bill
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 07:24:53 PM »
At the risk of breaking tradition of 1 cam in this forum....I love the 450 DOHC. Honda's most magic bikes, IMO, were the 450 DOHC, the 500/550-4 and the 400-4. My personal choice of riding the "big four" these last 36 years has more to do the with durability of that bike than with its personality.

The 450-2 will deliver more wallop per pound than almost anything out there, a real "kick-butt" twin. It's nimble, has excellent brakes (if they do wear quickly) and throttle response that is the envy of anyone who has ever ridden, but not owned, one. I usually beat every British twin except the 1967-68 Bonnevilles and the Norton 750s with mine. I had it for only 3 years before my father-in-law talked me out of it. His neighbor still owns and rides it today, 35+ years later!

Rules:
#1. Keep the carbs CLEAN. The vacuum pistons have very small clearances and the slightest amount of stickiness (from old gas, usually) will make the pistons misbehave and the mixtures will be erratic or just plain bad. Cleaning is easy: just loosen the clamps and twist the carbs sideways to get the covers off and the pistons out. Clean the bores and the pistons with acetone. Put 1 drop of very lightweight oil on your finger, apply it to the bores and the pistons, and reassemble. You'll be surprised at the difference! Remove the bowls and pilot screws, then spray carb cleaner through the passages. Clean the floats with acetone, check the float levels, and reassemble.

#2. The intake valve rockers wore badly. This was from folks running too light oil (cheap 10w40 or 10w30), and running it too long. The recommended change interval is 750 miles or less, because the top end really beats up the oil. Use 20w50 if you don't mind losing about 1 HP. Use Castrol or Torco, in any case, because it survives tehse hot-running engines better than almost anything but synthetics. Don't use synthetics, or you might lose your clutch. When starting it hot, WAIT 45 SECONDS BEFORE DRIVING, because it takes that long for the oil to reach the intake rockers on hot startup (honest!). If your lifters are worn, get new ones. They can be replaced through the adjustment cap holes. Set the intakes at .003" and the exhausts at .004" (I know the manual says .002" and .003", but that's for quiet, not for longevity). Worn lifters both clatter and reduce the lift a lot, as much as .100". Worst case, they also damage the cams. Look inside with a flashlight for score marks. They can be resurfaced or replaced fairly easily.

#3. A common malady with these was the points advancer weights getting corroded and stuck or the pivots wearing and getting loose. This makes it surge when trying to run along at steady in-town speeds (the carbs can cause this, too). Cleaning or re-bushing fixes them up.

#4. If you have more than 20,000 miles on it, try to get a new oil pump. This will improve many things, subtle things, that make it a happier ride.

#5. Hop-ups: after you've replaced those worn lifters and cleaned up the cam, give it a nice valve job to make it seal well, bore it .25mm (1st oversize) to gain almost 2 HP, mill the head .010" and remove the resulting sharp edge around the bore, trim the valve guide bosses on the intakes (they are too big), reassemble and set the timing an extra 2 degrees advanced. Grind off an extra spline on each torsion bar (for the valves) and reinstall 1 notch "extra" tight. This will let you spin 10,500 RPM safely, and it will, very willingly. Use the gearing from the CL model (it's slightly lower) if you have a CB. Get good tires: you're gonna need them after this. Replace the worn swingarm bushings  and install tapered rollers in the steering head. Then, you'll wonder why you ever wanted to ride anything else.

The 450-2 riders' motto used to be: "After all, enough is enough!" It's hard to argue with that bike.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline bill440cars

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2006, 10:13:45 AM »

  Hondaman,

            Thanks for the info, I will definitely put it to use. If you have, or come up with anything else,
   send me a message, okay? I've got my 4 cylinder projects but, I've always wanted to build 450s since
   I rode a new 68' model back then. Thanks again.  Bill
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Offline Master Ted

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2006, 11:23:09 PM »
The 500 frames usually ran straight and true, even to 110 MPH. They really like TT100 tires, if you don't carry touring loads. The Continental motorcycle tires match the lean angle of the stock 500/550 perfectly and make a real good all-around tire for these bikes, lasting a long time and gripping well in the wet (and ice!).

Is not the TT100 a Dunlop tire or are you refering to a different continental tire... if so, which one?

Ted
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Offline SteveD CB500F

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2006, 03:25:05 AM »
TT100 are Dunlops (K81 if I remember right) - as fitted to the bike in my avatar (in 1978...)
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2006, 07:05:45 PM »


         HondaMan,

                     Wouldn't you say that you could get a fair improvement on the performance of a 550
       ( or any of them actually) by: Replacing the airbox w/pods, Matching up the intake ports with 
       the manifolds and the manifolds with the carbs, Replacing the stock 4 into 4 exhaust w/
       a 4 into 1 or even a 4 into 2 system and tuning (rejetting and adjusting) the carbs for the best
       performance, after these changes were made? Any estimate as to what the hp increase could be?
       I've heard pros & cons of the airbox vs. the pods. What is your opinion? Later on,  Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 08:06:09 PM »


         HondaMan,

                     Wouldn't you say that you could get a fair improvement on the performance of a 550
       ( or any of them actually) by: Replacing the airbox w/pods, Matching up the intake ports with 
       the manifolds and the manifolds with the carbs, Replacing the stock 4 into 4 exhaust w/
       a 4 into 1 or even a 4 into 2 system and tuning (rejetting and adjusting) the carbs for the best
       performance, after these changes were made? Any estimate as to what the hp increase could be?
       I've heard pros & cons of the airbox vs. the pods. What is your opinion? Later on,  Bill

I dislike open airboxes for noise reasons. Unless they are fitted with velocity stacks, the improvement is usually overrun by the annoyance, with maybe a 5% change. You can get almost 5% with just matching the ports. 4-into-1: I have never seen them make any difference. 4-into-2: these make quite a difference on the 500/550, if you can get good ones. Unfortunately, the good ones also block the oil filter....

On a 500/550, for about the same $$$ as buying 4 K&N filters with velocity stacks, buying 4-into-something pipes and fighting with the resulting tuning, you can get a cam with more overlap and install it, right in the frame. For performance, that's the first place I'd go with the 500/550. Don't get more lift, just longer duration (this will cause more overlap, by design), maybe 8-10 degrees. This can add 10 HP to the under-aired 500. I don't know if Yosh still makes the street cam, but look around - maybe someone has one.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline scunny

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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 08:11:12 PM »
If it's any help, when I had a 500/4 (god I miss her) I had a stage 2 cam and ran a 4 into 1 with velocity stacks, av gas and rejetted and retimed it accordingly. She ran just fine through most of the rev range, mind you I was 18 so probably didn't just putt putt around town.Oh and tt100's were the way to go.
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Re: 500/550 tips
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2006, 04:48:40 PM »
.... I worked on the 350-2/350-4/450-2/500/550/750 the most. Only a few things, which will be 350-related, and I'll list them in a future post. The 400-4 was actually one of Honda's best street efforts!

Like Ghoulie, I also have a 400/4.  (It's my first motorcycle, and I'm a beginner.)  This is a question, and a thank you.

I was wondering if you would feel comfortable recommending the same suspension modifications for the 400/4 as you do here for the 500/550?  (Just to refresh your memory - "The springs on the stock 500/550 were very soft, too soft for spirited riding, and they sagged quickly. Get 100 lb springs for the rear when you replace the shocks, and shim the front springs inside the fork tubes with at least 3 washers of the diameter that fits the tubes inside. Then add air valves to the caps to make air forks out of them: run 10 PSI without a fairing, 15 or so with a fairing." )

I have read in a book I have on the 350's and 400's, that the suspension on the 400/4's was too soft as well, so I thought I'd ask about similar modifications for my bike as you suggest for the 500/550.


I should say how much I enjoy your posts Hondaman.  The sophisticated chat about engine mechanics is by and large over my head, but I appreciate how you usually include aspects that are either generally applicable to all the Honda 4's, or just generally appropriate for riding motorcycles of any type.

For example, I have found your tips for low speed handling exercise(s) to be particularly revealing and helpful.  (Funny too - I wouldn't have had the patience to try it, I don't think, if I wasn't forced to ride in my 1.4 kilometer underground parking lot "track".)  And even though my bike must be a lot lighter than the 750, it was so great to get the feeling I did after teaching myself that "opposite steering" thing.  In the course I took last year they kinda touched on it, but by following your simple directions, at low speed and with the tight turns in my "course", I really made significant progress.

(This is the best part of what I received from you in that regard.)  I made some (elementary) routines based on your tips and practiced them for about half an hour a night for a week.  Then we had a freakishly warm day (here in Southern Ontario) and I was able to get out on the streets and highways for a few hours.  I noticed immediately and was pleasantly surprised how much better my low to medium speed skills had become.  I was so much more proficient in intersections and around heavy traffic/city driving situations -- it's hard to describe.  Not only was I better, I felt in such better control.  Really really important, I think - and I can certainly see (even with such a brief description of what to do, from you) how these sorts of skills could save a rider's life.  I can't thank you enough for including that kind of anecdotal tip.

All the best ....