Topic: Stuck Cam Holder...

[laminarflowone]

So, I'm rebuilding the engine, and I can't seem to get the cam holder off.  I removed all of the rockers, and the camshaft, and it will wiggle, but I can't seem to muscle it off.  I don't want to mess up the seals by driving a flathead screwdriver in there, but I don't know what else to do.  Help from the gurus plz!!!



Also, how can you tell if its time to replace the rockers/camshaft?

[wrenchmuch]

Just to clarify . You have the camshaft right out of the head ? Your photos still show it in the engine . The shaft and chain would make holder removal impossible if they are still in place . All the nuts and bolts are out and they should ( once the cam is out ) come out with a little wiggling front and back . There are 2 dowel pins that locate the holders . I can't remember if they are around the studs or the bolts that hold the bearing caps down for the camshaft . This is likely whats making them stick a little.
Cheers
Mike

[laminarflowone]

Sorry, I didn't take a pic after the fact, but the cam has been removed.  What are the dowel pins?

[wrenchmuch]

There are 4 bearing caps for the camshaft . The front of each cap ( end that points toward the front of the engine ) is fastened by a nut on a stud that threads into the head . The rear of each cap is fastened by a long bolt . These bolts pass through the cap , bearing holder , (and then where the holder meets the head ) a hollow steel dowel countersunk half into the head and half into the holder . These 4 pins (2 on each holder ) ensure alignment of the cam bearing surfaces . With all the bolts out of the holders  , wiggle them back and forth they should come off as you pull up .
Mike

[MCRider]

You would have encoutered the dowels before as there are 2 of them that align the cam cover on the cylinder head. In the case of the cam holders, there are 2 each and they will make it a snug fit. as mentioned wiggle and pull up.

As to wear, the rocker surface where they meet the cam, will get a wear mark on them. Even that is not bad, its a matter of degree.

If you look at the lower ones in the picture, the 3rd one from the left, the wear mark would be right where the light glare is, a thin line across the face of the rocker. YOurs look fine from here.

Across the top row, the 3rd from the left, has some excema (missing hardening) on the face. Doesn't look too bad to not reuse, but its a form of wear.

The cams hardly ever wear out past the point of not using. Would be from bad oiling, gouges in the journals where they spin in the camholder bearing surface. Never seen one wear in the lobe area other than again lack of oil.

[laminarflowone]

Thanks a lot for the wealth of information! This forums has been totally indispensable for really anyone who wants to learn more about their bikes.

I still haven't been able to wiggle the cam holders off, but that may be because I am a weakling.  I will continue to try later today.

Here is some of the wear on one of the cam holders that is fairly representative of the other four surfaces.  Is this serious?  Should I be doing anything for this?



I tried to take a better picture of the wear on the rockers and cams, and it looks like there is significant wear. 




Is it worth replacing the cam with the drop-in-stock one from cycle x and/or the coated rockers they have?
http://www.cyclexchange.net/HIGH%20PERF%20ENGINE%20COATING.htm

[MCRider]

What do you intend to do with the bike?

The wear is likely normal for 25 to 50K miles, from the pictures. Hard to say. You could probably use it all over for another 25 to 50K.

Or go nuts, the skies the limit.

[laminarflowone]

I'm completely restoring the bike and I plan on using it for over 50k miles without taking the engine apart again.  I already dropped the dope when I bought the urethane paints, so even though I don't want to go 'wild' with an overbore kit, etc, etc, I do want to make the bike more reliable and safer. 
The title says the bike has ~26k miles on it, but it didn't come with gauges, so I'm not sure how reliable or close the actual mileage is.
I guess what I'm asking is, is if the coated rockers and new cam/cam chain/cam sprocket, etc would increase the reliability enough to be worth it.  I'm not too worried about performance because if I was, I would have just bought the newest CBR...

[MCRider]

I was close at 25 to 50 eh?

Those cam bearings always look like sh-t with 25+ miles on them. No way to restore them I know of. They still last though. I had mine cryogenically treated for the next 50K miles. Rockers, cam and pins too. I am using a new cam. Performance. Coating is probably fine but it is a coating, cryo actually improves the metal. But who knows for sure?

Its a tough question. The difference being in the word "reliable". Nothing about the wear on those parts points to imminent failure. They will last another 50K.

New parts and the treated ones will likely last 50K+ 50K. A new cam will fill in some of the space in the cam to bearing clearance.

Since you're there, cam chain, slider and rollers is a must. Are you splitting the cases? Mostly have to to replace the cam chain. If you want a quieter fresh motor, new primary chains and tensioner, about $175, will quiet down like a new one. Though your stock ones are good for another 50K no doubt. Just noisier.

[laminarflowone]

I am opening up the case.  I want to completely rebuild the engine, if not just a reliability concern, but also to learn how the bike works completely, so if it breaks down in the future, I will have a rough idea how to fix it.  I've always liked taking things apart and fixing them, so I really just can't help myself...

I'm already planning on replacing, gaskets, bearings, piston rings (hopefully not pistons), primary chain, etc.

By the end of this project, I hope to have a 'brand new' bike.  Has anyone heard anything about the cyclex treated rockers and cams?  I'm not too familiar with other brands. Luckily, there is a place relatively nearby that does cryogenic treatments.  Would this be a better option?

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/racing.html

[MCRider]

Not to take anything away from CycleX, as I REALLY DON"T KNOW, I'm just thinking... A coating will eventually rub off. Maybe maybe not...in the lifespan of the part.

Cryogenics is forever. BUT is one better than the other...?

If you're missing some material on the rocker faces (hard to see in the picture) maybe coating is the way to go.

Get a frame rail kit and you can check em every 10K on a sat afternoon without changing your oil.

So you're already planning on replacing things that aren't worn out. So I'd just proceed with what feels good, knowing you have a margin of error.

I mean, if you re ring it, valve job, all new rubber parts and chains, you've got a 50K motor that will run sweet. Anything more than that is just gravy.