Topic: Worldwide views please-WHAT REALLY IS A CB750K0.?

[UKCB750CAFERACERS]

Dear SOHCers around the world...

This question is likely to cause controversy,stimulate debate and maybe throw up some new ideas or information for the benefit of us all in the world-wide SOHC community

Can anyone,definitively,state exactly what a K0- as in K zero-is..?

In the UK we called the first production CB750s to arrive here,just CB750...we didnt receive sandcasters as production bikes....UK  bikes started in the 10,000+ series of frame numbers.....

USA/Canada and some parts of Europe DID get the sandcasters....Germany,France....I think Australia did too.?UK was too small a market to justify huge initial imports.

There is note of a "mythical" CB750K0...as in an interim bike between the first bikes and the later K1 model....described as a "transitional"version with some 121 examples made,believed to have been for UK/Europe...these were probably "parts bin specials" using up whatever parts were left rather than the start of a new model.

In a nutshell,one of these bikes looked mostly like an early (69/70)bike but with  a K1 carb set up instead of cables...some had the colour matched side panels,some had the later black ribbed airbox.Mine has the colour matched type,and I have seen a  photo of a bike with the later box too.

Theres no reference to these bikes in Honda parts lists,no seperate owner manual etc etc....BUT a Honda UK book from the 1970s confirms the existence of this "oddball" and gave a frame number range (121 number span)...Ill find it sometime and post the numbers.

THE FOLLOWING IS A STRAIGHT LIFT FROM A 1999 HONDA CORPORATE CB750 30TH ANNIVERSARY PRESS PACK LISTING......QUOTE" THE CB750 FOUR made from 1969 to 1970 was not originally coded K0,but after Honda had later issued the K1,additional labelling was attached for convenience.K0 was applied to machines prior to those with the K1 coding,which stood the Japanese "Kairyo 1 go" meaning "improvement no 1" in English.

The K0 title seems to be universal when applied to early bikes.

The history and lineage of "sand casters"seems straight forward,ie the first ?7414 motors,but what of the K0 term...?

As an international community,it would be great to hear different views and particularly
any members from Japan......

Please,fellow SOHCers,can the debate begin,Im sure there is much we can ALL learn here.
Most sources-ie books and mags-dont seem to pick up on the "oddball 121 bikes",maybe cos they didnt get shipped to the US/Canada,only to the smaller European market.

Rumour,conjecture and question marks surround some of the history of early CB750s....pre-production prototypes,strange carbs,strange rocker covers,seats,panels,tanks etc etc...the list goes on.....between us the knowledge exists Im certain.

Any views please


Thanks and....safe rides,wherever in the world you may be spinning those wheels 

[Bob Wessner]

I think what you have recounted sounds entirely logical.

[SteveD CB500F]

We have (sort of) addressed this before.  I'll bet Hondaman knows!

[Jonesy]

You explain it as I understood it. The "K" system was to originally denote engineering improvements that came out in the form of a new model. What was the first model an improvement of, then? (I know.. some smart-@ss is gonna say K-Harley or K-Triumph since it was the better bike in the day    I think this was later obscured by the different model designations (750K, 750C, 750A, 750F...) That it was more convenient to go back and give it a K designation and since all the other K models had a model variant assigned already K1, K2.... K0 was the only logical option.

[Ted Nomura]

You explain it as I understood it. The "K" system was to originally denote engineering improvements that came out in the form of a new model. What was the first model an improvement of, then? (I know.. some smart-@ss is gonna say K-Harley or K-Triumph since it was the better bike in the day    I think this was later obscured by the different model designations (750K, 750C, 750A, 750F...) That it was more convenient to go back and give it a K designation and since all the other K models had a model variant assigned already K1, K2.... K0 was the only logical option.

During World War II, Japanese Army fighters also had "K" designation denoting "Kai" for "Improvement", like the Kawasaki Ki-61 Kai "Hien". But with an exception of a Japanese Reisen, which means Zero-Sen, which went into service in Japanese year of 2600, Japanese don't designate "0" in their model numbering system because "0" means nothing. "0" is used only for their year designation. So CB750 was never issued the "K0" designation, it was an invention of American Honda and Honda of England but this myth is so strong now that even in Japan, they advertise their used 1969 or 1970 CB750s at motorcycle shops as "K0"s.

[Ted Nomura]

Dear SOHCers around the world...

This question is likely to cause controversy,stimulate debate and maybe throw up some new ideas or information for the benefit of us all in the world-wide SOHC community

Can anyone,definitively,state exactly what a K0- as in K zero-is..?

In the UK we called the first production CB750s to arrive here,just CB750...we didnt receive sandcasters as production bikes....UK  bikes started in the 10,000+ series of frame numbers.....

USA/Canada and some parts of Europe DID get the sandcasters....Germany,France....I think Australia did too.?UK was too small a market to justify huge initial imports.

There is note of a "mythical" CB750K0...as in an interim bike between the first bikes and the later K1 model....described as a "transitional"version with some 121 examples made,believed to have been for UK/Europe...these were probably "parts bin specials" using up whatever parts were left rather than the start of a new model.

In a nutshell,one of these bikes looked mostly like an early (69/70)bike but with  a K1 carb set up instead of cables...some had the colour matched side panels,some had the later black ribbed airbox.Mine has the colour matched type,and I have seen a  photo of a bike with the later box too.

Theres no reference to these bikes in Honda parts lists,no seperate owner manual etc etc....BUT a Honda UK book from the 1970s confirms the existence of this "oddball" and gave a frame number range (121 number span)...Ill find it sometime and post the numbers.

THE FOLLOWING IS A STRAIGHT LIFT FROM A 1999 HONDA CORPORATE CB750 30TH ANNIVERSARY PRESS PACK LISTING......QUOTE" THE CB750 FOUR made from 1969 to 1970 was not originally coded K0,but after Honda had later issued the K1,additional labelling was attached for convenience.K0 was applied to machines prior to those with the K1 coding,which stood the Japanese "Kairyo 1 go" meaning "improvement no 1" in English.

The K0 title seems to be universal when applied to early bikes.

The history and lineage of "sand casters"seems straight forward,ie the first ?7414 motors,but what of the K0 term...?

As an international community,it would be great to hear different views and particularly
any members from Japan......

Please,fellow SOHCers,can the debate begin,Im sure there is much we can ALL learn here.
Most sources-ie books and mags-dont seem to pick up on the "oddball 121 bikes",maybe cos they didnt get shipped to the US/Canada,only to the smaller European market.

Rumour,conjecture and question marks surround some of the history of early CB750s....pre-production prototypes,strange carbs,strange rocker covers,seats,panels,tanks etc etc...the list goes on.....between us the knowledge exists Im certain.

Any views please


Thanks and....safe rides,wherever in the world you may be spinning those wheels 

I was confused about the KO designation at first when I did a small Honda CB750 identification guide article in my Tigers of Terra comics series 2 number #4 issue in 1991 but John Wyatt's Original CB750 book finally listed the serial numbers of the 121 real CB750K0s and they were not the ones installed by dealers on later years.

[Ted Nomura]

Dear SOHCers around the world...

This question is likely to cause controversy,stimulate debate and maybe throw up some new ideas or information for the benefit of us all in the world-wide SOHC community

Can anyone,definitively,state exactly what a K0- as in K zero-is..?

In the UK we called the first production CB750s to arrive here,just CB750...we didnt receive sandcasters as production bikes....UK  bikes started in the 10,000+ series of frame numbers.....

USA/Canada and some parts of Europe DID get the sandcasters....Germany,France....I think Australia did too.?UK was too small a market to justify huge initial imports.

There is note of a "mythical" CB750K0...as in an interim bike between the first bikes and the later K1 model....described as a "transitional"version with some 121 examples made,believed to have been for UK/Europe...these were probably "parts bin specials" using up whatever parts were left rather than the start of a new model.

In a nutshell,one of these bikes looked mostly like an early (69/70)bike but with  a K1 carb set up instead of cables...some had the colour matched side panels,some had the later black ribbed airbox.Mine has the colour matched type,and I have seen a  photo of a bike with the later box too.

Theres no reference to these bikes in Honda parts lists,no seperate owner manual etc etc....BUT a Honda UK book from the 1970s confirms the existence of this "oddball" and gave a frame number range (121 number span)...Ill find it sometime and post the numbers.

THE FOLLOWING IS A STRAIGHT LIFT FROM A 1999 HONDA CORPORATE CB750 30TH ANNIVERSARY PRESS PACK LISTING......QUOTE" THE CB750 FOUR made from 1969 to 1970 was not originally coded K0,but after Honda had later issued the K1,additional labelling was attached for convenience.K0 was applied to machines prior to those with the K1 coding,which stood the Japanese "Kairyo 1 go" meaning "improvement no 1" in English.

The K0 title seems to be universal when applied to early bikes.

The history and lineage of "sand casters"seems straight forward,ie the first ?7414 motors,but what of the K0 term...?

As an international community,it would be great to hear different views and particularly
any members from Japan......

Please,fellow SOHCers,can the debate begin,Im sure there is much we can ALL learn here.
Most sources-ie books and mags-dont seem to pick up on the "oddball 121 bikes",maybe cos they didnt get shipped to the US/Canada,only to the smaller European market.

Rumour,conjecture and question marks surround some of the history of early CB750s....pre-production prototypes,strange carbs,strange rocker covers,seats,panels,tanks etc etc...the list goes on.....between us the knowledge exists Im certain.

Any views please


Thanks and....safe rides,wherever in the world you may be spinning those wheels 

I just checked the records and you're right, there's 121 true Honda CB750K0s. Frame serials are CB750 1044826-1044947 and engines CB750E 1044848-1045147. Built in mid 1970.

[kaceyf2]

in the UK the "cb750" was first seen at the Brighton show in april 1969. At the same time demand in the USA meant that we (the UK) got VERY FEW, there was a backlog of orders, and there are few known survivors of the "CB750" In the UK. This was the "original" 750 four and had NO model suffix    Then came the K0 which was a TRANSITION model ( for all you asking WHAT was K0 an "improvement of" , it was an "improvement" of cb750) generally similar to the cb750 and grouped within the latters batch of engine and frame number span, The K0 variants will fall between engine number cb750E 1044848 - 1045147 frame number cb7501044826-1044947 ONLY 36 K0's were sold in the UK. both discontinued in june 1971 on introduction of K1 IN THE UK.
Source HAynes super profile published 1983.

[elisent]

KO was used as a designation for first production models. This was instead of year designations. 750s were officially designated as CB750s until K1 models. (excluding the few hundred late 40,000 crossovers that still are not recognized in any Honda literature I've seen as KOs). This was not true on other Honda models. KO meant first for a number of Hondas. Not 750s.

geocities.com/indian440

[mcpuffett]

hi all, i am lucky enough to own a 750 with the frame number 103**** first registered in belgium europe, and according to john wyatt's book it was in the first batch to go to europe 69/70? , so is mine a ko or not ?    mick.

[Ted Nomura]

hi all, i am lucky enough to own a 750 with the frame number 103**** first registered in belgium europe, and according to john wyatt's book it was in the first batch to go to europe 69/70? , so is mine a ko or not ?    mick.

Yours is the 1970 CB750, not CB750K0. Although there's no real differences between 1969 and 1970 CB750s except for the detailed small mid-production changes listed in John Wyatt's book.

[Ted Nomura]

in the UK the "cb750" was first seen at the Brighton show in april 1969. At the same time demand in the USA meant that we (the UK) got VERY FEW, there was a backlog of orders, and there are few known survivors of the "CB750" In the UK. This was the "original" 750 four and had NO model suffix    Then came the K0 which was a TRANSITION model ( for all you asking WHAT was K0 an "improvement of" , it was an "improvement" of cb750) generally similar to the cb750 and grouped within the latters batch of engine and frame number span, The K0 variants will fall between engine number cb750E 1044848 - 1045147 frame number cb7501044826-1044947 ONLY 36 K0's were sold in the UK. both discontinued in june 1971 on introduction of K1 IN THE UK.
Source HAynes super profile published 1983.

The first CB750 shown in Britain is really unique, it's a pre-production model. It has the early-production CB750 engine and side covers but note the gas tank and the front end are the same prototype parts shown in 1968 Tokyo show. The gas tank have a higher Honda emblem and K1 type chrome trim and the front disk unit have bigger vented holes that extends to the disc itself.
I remember ordering the Haynes CB750 Suoer Profile book back in the 1980s only to find out that they were sold out.
I got the information about the "K0" myth in 1971 when I was talking to a Japanese Honda representative in Las Vegas who told me that there are 100 to 140 CB750K0s, so the accurate number of 121 turned out to be true, he also told me that originally it was designated as CB750Kai or CB750K until the K0 designation popped out without Honda of Japan's knowledge but I didn't see the CB750K0 designation in print until I saw the World of Color in Motorcycling book in 1975 when it showed the red 1969 CB750 as CB750K0 and the confusion started.