Topic: Anyone using these tiny 12oz. lithium batteries? - Sold Out!

[kayaker43]

Oh all I do is check on it to make sure the voltage is good, and mAybe top it off if necessary, I don't leave it on! 

Either way, thanks for the great deal!!

Excellent,.. thanks for the business, I wish I could get more.

[Sam Green Racing]

Hey Doug, seems you are a real entrepreneur, hope you made a few shillings.

Sam.

[kayaker43]

Hey Doug, seems you are a real entrepreneur, hope you made a few shillings.

Sam.

I'll try anything to avoid working for a living 

[Sam Green Racing]

You sound like Arthur Daily.

Sam.

[kayaker43]

You sound like Arthur Daily.

I had to google that one,...... a highly unscrupulous importer-exporter, wholesaler, used-car salesman, and anything else from which there was money to be made whether inside the law or not.

I resemble that remark    

If your interested, I sell some Kryptonite spark plugs that add 30 HP

[freedomgli]

"Battery Tender" brand is the only one I trust to leave on indefinitely. These are true float chargers and will not cause harm.

Everything I've read says DO NOT use a Battery Tender on these LiFePO4 batteries

http://www.mavirykdesign.com/faq.html
http://www.fullspectrumpower.com/support_charging.html
http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/charging.html

Instead, I'd only use a LiFePO4 specific battery charger only when absolutely necessary, which should be never provided your electrical system is working properly.

[kayaker43]

Not neccessarily true,.. those links mostly refer to trickle chargers and smart chargers, a battery tender is neither. Its more of a low rate "float" charger, it charges at a relatively low rate then tapers off and completely shuts off at 13.8 volts. This is completely safe for Lifepo4 batteries. "Battery Tender" is a brand name, not a type of charger. Many people call any trickle chargers battery tenders but trickle chargers don't shut off, many will taper down but not shut off completely.

Smart chargers are regular chargers with extra circuitry and often try to auto detect battery types to determine capacity and charge rates but they are designed for lead acid chemistry and are sometimes confused by Lifepo4 batteries. Some also have anti-sulfation modes that lifepo4 batteries don't like.Smart chargers also usually don't shut off completely but just switch to a trickle charge. These should be avoided. I had a long talk with the manufacturer of "Battery Tenders" and was assured they are safe.

Having said all that, you really won't need a battery tender because Lifepo4 batteries have such low discharge rates. just disconnect them for the winter and store them inside till spring. The only exception would be some newer bikes that have a small but constant draw on the electrical system. If you leave the battery connected but don't ride often, any battery will run down. These could and should use a Battery Tender or other legitimate "float" charger (not a trickle charger or smart charger)

I willl agree that there are purpose built chargers for lifepo4 batteries that can do a better job of charging but that gets confusing too. Almost all R/C type chargers that can handle lifepo4 chemistry are what is known as balance chargers. These are designed to charge through a special battery tap and not the positive and negative terminals. Thes chargers essentially act like four individual chargers, one for each cell in your pack. This also keeps the cells balanced and is a good thing except they can only be used with batteries that have the special balancing tap installed. I started out selling my batteries that way but no one seemed to care about the taps and it confused people so I eliminated them.

I haven't been able to find a simple 4 cell lifepo4 "non balancing" charger to recommend but I'm sure some will come on the market soon enough ?

You can read the FAQ's posted on the Shorai battery site to confirm evrything I'm saying.

http://www.shoraipower.com/t-faq.aspx

Here's an excerpt:

Q. Can I use Lead-Acid battery chargers or charger/tenders?A.Yes. HOWEVER, you may NOT use a charger/tender if it has an automatic "desulfation mode", which cannot be turned off. We have confirmed with Deltran, makers of the "Battery Tender" brand, that their products do NOT have a desulfation mode, and are therefore OK for use with Shorai LFX, for example. But the best possible charger/tender for Shorai LFX is the SHO-BMS01, which will be released on about March 15th 2011, we expect. It uses the 5-pin BMS port in the LFX batteries, in order to monitor, diagnose, and balance the individual cells during charge. And it also has an optimized storage mode that will give the longest possible service life to your LFX.

[gnarlycharlie4u]

^^^ good to know thanks!

[freedomgli]

Thanks for the tech info kayaker.

[Roach Carver]

what should the voltage be on these? I bought a double pack for a bmw r100 and while it will crank it it does the click thing quite a bit too. I charged it as it was about 11-12 volts and I ran it up to 13 volts. It was a bit better. what do ya think?

 I may just split them up and use them on my 750s.

[kayaker43]

Should be much higher than 11-12 volts. Was that after a starting attempt? Was your battery left connected all winter, does it have a clock or other small draw? They don't mind sitting in cold weather, and have much less self discharge than lead acid batteries but a small parasitic draw will run them down faster because they are smaller.

A typical Lithium shows maybe 14-14.5 volts after an extended run, and up to a volt less after sitting overnight unless your bike has parasitic draw. Always best to disconnect and bring inside over the winter. They shouldn't need any attention that way until spring when you should check voltage and charge if neccessary before use.

Remember, these batteries are poorly suited for cold weather usage. I can say that a hundred times and people don't hear it. All lithium batteries have MUCH less cranking performance below 40 degrees or even warmer if your leaning on it hard and the difference can be dramatic. Add to that, your bike is much harder to crank when frozen. Under these conditions a Lithium battery will warm a bit as it struggles and seems to improve.

An 8 cell pack is marginal for a 1000cc BMW on a warm day, and I would never expect it to crank a frozen one. 8 Cells is good for a CB750 except in cold weather.  4 cells could be used on an easy starting 750 in warm weather but would have  little reserve.  Use kick or push start when its apparent cranking won't work

NEVER continue holding the starter button after it starts clicking, or keep trying repeatedly. This will likely drive the voltage below its minimum and cause damage. If this happens, get some charge in as soon as possible to minimize time spent below 12 volts.

[Roach Carver]

I will put it back on the charger. As far as cold and parasitic draw. I never even hooked it up until the other day when I tried it. It has been sitting in a box in my laundry room. The temp in my garage was probably about 65. As soon as I finished the test I removed it from the bike. sounds like I just need to run the charge up a bit. Thanks for the pointers.

[scottly]

From the instructions that came with my battery:
"Recommended Charge Voltage - 14.4 volts

Maximum Charge Voltage - 16.8 volts"

Monitor the voltage while charging, as the battery nears full charge, the voltage rises quite rapidly. 

[Bluegreen]

Just came back from spending 10 days doing 1700 miles in the California and Arizona desert. There were some long days, short days, cold days and very hot days. Went through Phoenix during rush hour and did some night riding with the lamp on. I have '73 CB500 and just swapped out the old battery for the tiny new one. Worked great.  

Edit: And every start was push button.

[kayaker43]

Sounds like a great ride,.. those old CB's are smooooth even by todays standards. You just inspired me to plan a big ride this spring.

I think The few percent who have trouble with lithiums, had problems before the swap or just went a little small on the battery size? I wonder who will be the first OEM to put lithiums in new bikes?? It seems Yuasa owns the OEM market, If they're not scrambling to switch over,.. they should be.

[Roach Carver]

As I am the only one on here who has had any issues with my battery I would like to say, I think its a great little battery. I was under the impression that we had talked somewhere that anything over 750 cc needed a double pack, which I purchased. The condition of my bike prior to installation was running and starting fine with no drain issues. I think the reason I am having some difficulty is that I needed to top off my batttery and secondly and most importantly the bmw has a large car type starter. not a little bitty thing like our hondas. Anyway, I am not disgruntled. I think its great but may not work in every situation.

[kayaker43]

Roach, that wasn't aimed at you, just a general comment based on other forums and web info i've read. All the lithium sellers are struggling with the application issue. Some small bikes crank hard and some large ones crank easy and its not intuitive which ones are which. Not to mention the variation between bikes of the same model. Its tough to reccomend a size until these batteries get more exposure in the marketplace. Feedback like yours is important.

I think the industry recomendation for sizing will shift toward more conservative or will make more distinction between racing and street use? The temperature thing is what I hear most about as winter is passing. It may be sunny and 60 degrees as the sun comes out one afternoon, but the temperature of objects in the garage may still be in the 40's and the oil even less, plus last years gas etc,.. I have had a few calls this spring about sluggish starting but I expected that. When I worked at the dealership, we sold a ton of batteries each spring to replace ones that were percieved as failing, but would have been fine after a tank of gas.

I think the worst thing ever has been the removal of kickstarters from motorcycles,.. but then I got along fine with carbs and points so it could just be me