Author Topic: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.  (Read 14397 times)

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Offline yodagruv

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CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« on: August 24, 2010, 07:45:38 AM »
i need some help determining how to choose jets for my '75 CB550.  After reading the Carb FAQ on here thoroughly i was fairly convinced i should return to a stock airbox and intake manifold.  Then i started to realize that since every single piece of the original airboxhas been removed from my project bike i would need to find every tiny bit all the way down to fasteners and stuff and thought it'd probably just be more prudent to tune the bike to the UNI pods and 4-into-one exhaust i have for it.

what i'm trying to determine is should i modify the jetting proportionally, for example, do i increase everything by, say, 15-20 percent or do i do main jets 15%, slow jets 10%, whatever, i have no clue.

i can tell you that i live in a very hot, very dry area being in West Texas with very fine dust in the air all the time. Altitude is going to be basically 2500-3000 feet around here.  Might ride in east Texas or the Hill Country occasionally which would be something like 500ft-2000ft range

Offline muttblbc

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 11:43:17 AM »
Heres something I found on the net a while ago, hope it helps

This document is based on Mikuni Carburetors. But the theory follows through on all carburetors. Be aware that Mikuni Main jets increment in steps of 2.5, Hitachi Main jets increment in steps of 2.0. Hitachi Main jets (screw in style [Yamaha XJ's] are available in sizes from 110-134 in increments of 2.0. All this means that if you find you need to go up 4 steps on the main jets according to this chart (2.5x4) the step up would be 10.0. For Hitachi mains the step up would be 5 jet sizes (2.0x5) since following this chart for Hitachi mains would put you at 8.0 which is very close to 7.5 which would be 3 steps according to this chart.

Jetting Recommendations
by Denny Zander

Here is a simple set of jetting guidelines that have worked for me. For those considering jet changes, this might help select a starting point.

1 jet size for custom 4 into 2 exhaust

2 jet sizes for 4 into 1 exhaust

1 jet size for K&N filter (single inside airbox)

1 jet size for drilling out the bottom of the airbox

2 jet sizes for both single K&N and drilled airbox

2 jet sizes for individual filters

2 jet sizes for no muffler (open header)

1 pilot jet size for every 3 main jet size increase

Add up all the jet size increases and subtract one. (Remember they go in steps of 2.5 for each jet size)

Under a mismatch condition, like individual filters and stock exhaust or 4 into 1 header with stock filter and air box, subtract an additional 1 jet size.

Check plug color often, sync carbs after each jet change, make sure the floats are set correctly, and seriously consider purchasing a Color Tune. (See "Color tuning Carburetors" in the Maintenance Section).

Make sure your carbs are in perfect working order before making jet changes.

Example from my '79 XS1100 F:
Stock main jets: 137.5
you cant drown if your born to hang.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 11:48:27 AM »
I was once told that Mikuni jet sizes were marked with numbers based on their actual flow performance.

I do know that Keihin Jets are marked with their orifice diameter.

How that relates to jet size recommendation relevance I could only guess.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline yodagruv

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 02:34:07 PM »
So that chart could be helpful if the numbers in question are an actual number of something objective. That is to say if is jet sizing an actual measurement of something, i.e. the opening length or diameter or amount of fluid (air or liquid) flow it allows then one could use these guidelines for mikuni "steps" of increments of 2.5 to derive a value such as "10.0" which could be added to the stock numbers on the other reference charts we have on this forum to come up with a final starting point number.  Worth a shot... If the number is objective and quantifies the same value (such as flow OR orifice) and doesn't vary like, for instance, US, UK, French and Japanese shoe sizes.

Also SOHC4 carbs have main jets, slow jets, needles and clip settings so how does that all factor in i wonder?  i am clearly uninitiated.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 02:40:53 PM by yodagruv »

Offline muttblbc

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 04:39:03 PM »
Ive always figured you just go up by factory size increments, Ive yet to see a formula or way of doing the math (such as when your adjusting valve lash on a dohc shim over bucket valve train) Ive only used that chart thus far twice on keihin carbs but found it to be pretty right on.
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Offline yodagruv

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 07:22:32 PM »
I got the following reply from PJMOTORSPORTS.COM:

"Keihin Jets Hole Number is a Fuel Flow Rating that their company uses. Mikuni Jets Hole Number is their Size Rating.  This is the information they give us regarding these numbers."

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 09:30:17 PM »
I got the following reply from PJMOTORSPORTS.COM:

"Keihin Jets Hole Number is a Fuel Flow Rating that their company uses. Mikuni Jets Hole Number is their Size Rating.  This is the information they give us regarding these numbers."

Pretty sure they got that exactly backwards.  I've measured the Keihin jets.  The numbers are in millimeters.  IE. a #100 jet is 1mm in diameter.  A #38 is 0.38mm.  A #120 is 1.20mm.

Believe what you want to believe, I guess.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline yodagruv

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 06:54:49 AM »
i'm going with you on this as i'm sure i always will.

BTW, love the Popeye quote.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 07:09:16 AM by yodagruv »

Offline Triffecpa

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 09:22:39 AM »

it's unlikely that you will have to change out the pilot jets or the needle positions on a lightly modified bike.  Stock jets on 550's are 98's I think.  I run a couple of CB550's as race bike in Albuquerque (elevation 5000').  I run open exhausts and velocity stacks and I think that I run 105 main jets.  Stock needle position and stock pilot jets. 

You will need to go slightly richer for the lower elevation, but slightly leaner for the pod filters and muffler.  102.5's would be my guess.

Tracy

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 10:20:37 AM »
I once had a 75 CB550K with a mac 4-1, and a stock air box and Uni-4055 foam air filter.  (I converted the uni pods it had, back to stock induction) .  It had the stock 022a carbs with all the stock settings, and ran well on the street.  I never Dyno'd it or measured performance, though.  It felt quicker than my 74 CB550, and as fast as my 77 CB550F.  I later learned it had a 16T front sprocket while my other bikes have the stock 17T.  That will make any 550 feel quicker.  :D

I'm at sea level or up to 500ft above.  FYI

Here's a pic of the bike just before I sold it the first time.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline yodagruv

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 01:09:42 PM »
Here's a pic of the bike just before I sold it the first time.

Cheers,

"...the first time," huh? That's a story i'd be interested in hearing.

So if I have a jet that's a little too rich can I lean it out on the carb?  For instance, I get a 105 main jet and the bike would like a 102 better can I adjust fuel mixture down without rejetting?

And now a 16T front sprocket is on my to do list as well.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 05:15:31 PM »
"...the first time," huh? That's a story i'd be interested in hearing.

\
So if I have a jet that's a little too rich can I lean it out on the carb?  For instance, I get a 105 main jet and the bike would like a 102 better can I adjust fuel mixture down without rejetting?

And now a 16T front sprocket is on my to do list as well.
Beware that the 16T is not very good for freeway/cruise driving.  If the bike is in town only, the 16T is good.

The screw adjustment on the carb is an air screw primarily to tweak the pilot circuit mixture.  The pilot circuit is dominant at up to 1/4 throttle setting where the throttle valve and Main jet take over.  The pilot circuit doesn't have much contribution at WOT where the main jet is dominant.  Further, if you did use the air screw to limit Main jet contribution, then the idle speed would be way lean and your throttle response for low RPM would be hideous.

Bike sales story:
I learned about the bike on the old SOHC4 mailing list.  A guy posted and asked if the Cb550 was "unloved", as he was having a hard time finding a buyer.  Since he was only about 5 miles away from me I went to go look at it.  It didn't run, but was worth the asking price except there was no title.  How this guy acquired it was kinda ...odd.  I think he loaned someone money and when the borrower moved away, he "collected" the bike in his garage.  Lot's of time passed without contact so he eventually decided to try and sell it, as he didn't even ride motorcycles.  I said if he could produce a legal title, I would buy it.  So, he went through some sort of lien sale process with the state, and acquired title to the bike.  Took him 3 months.  But, I finally bought it, loaded it into the truck, and took it home.  Whoever had "owned" it tried to make a "sort of" cafe racer.  The previous owner had stripped it down, probably because removing parts was cheap.  Did a decent job on rattle can paint, but the tank was rusty inside and fouling carbs; it had lowered bars, no rear fender, bald rear tire, clutch cable routed so badly that the clutch would disengage if you turned the bars to the left.  And for all the cafe leanings it still had a style low king/queen seat on it.  I assume it was cheap/free and looked better than the original torn up seat.  The Koni shocks on it looked good but would hardly move.  The internals of them were dry and damaged.  (I still have them in the parts pile.)  There was this banging sound over bumps that was the shock end of travel, quite audible, and the springs were too strong.
Anyway, I went through the bike, brakes, carbs, a Kreem job for the tank.  Put a the fender back on, some old shocks that would move if not have new damping, tires, carb rebuild, put on the seat you see in the pic, etc.  Generally, I made it into a nice street bike.  I used it for commuting in the summer.  But, I had too many bikes.  And when a guy at work showed an interest, we struck a deal and off it went.  I still saw it at work, and helped him with the routine maintenance.  A year goes by.  The guy needed to go back to Nepal and live near his father who was having age related issues and he needed closer attention.
I bought the bike back for very very near what I had sold it to him.  I kept it for a while.  But, I still had too many bikes.
I saw a craigslist add from someone who wanted a CB550.  I sent him the picture above.  And we eventually struck deal #2.  In hindsight, I should have refused.  He was a new rider with zero knowledge about things mechanical and no aptitude to acquire those skills.  He kept calling me about a starting problem.  And every time I went to go check it out it worked fine for me.  He kept telling me, he was getting stranded when it wouldn't start and the kick starter wouldn't work.  Yes, I tried to explain that the clutch had to be out for the kick to work.  But, when he stalled it, the bike would be in gear and the kick won't work unless in neutral.  He couldn't grasp the concept.  And, since he wouldn't drive the fast enough or keep the RPM much above idle, he kept running the battery down.  So, the electric start wouldn't work.  He finally damaged the battery enough so it was unreliable.  After the fifth time going over to start his bike for him and finding nothing wrong, he finally stopped calling me.
About a year later.  I encountered another person interested in buying a 550.  He wanted a cheap one he could turn into a cafe racer.  I wasn't willing to meet his price on any in my fleet.  But, what he was asking for fit the description of the bike I sold last year.  So, I called him to see if he wanted to sell it.  He already had sold it to a woman about six months back, but knew she had to sell the bike.  We got the number, called, and arranged to see what condition it was in.  Under a tarp in front of her garage, there it was still looking like the last time I had seen it.  She said she hadn't run it much since she was diagnosed with MS (The reason for selling).  And, that replacing the battery immediately after buying, it had run well to that point.  She liked the bike and was sad to sell it.  She was worried it wouldn't run anymore as the battery had run down.
It was a funny situation.  I kicked it though to check the compression.  Then, I put on the gas valve, gave it full choke, turned off the lights, Key on and it started on the first kick.  She was amazed.  Knowing I had been the one who had owned it before said, "the master's touch".
#2 pipe wasn't heating properly.  But, the bike was still drivable, if a bit lacking in power.  I drove it, he drove it.  I told him that the carbs may need cleaning, or possibly that a slow jet was stuffed, but, otherwise the bike was still a nice bike.  The two of them struck a deal, and I felt I had sold it a third time.
He drove it back to my house (I followed in his car),  where I supervised his removing the carb bowls and pilot jet removals.  Sure enough one of them was clogged, #2.  The bike now drove as I remembered it.  And the new buyer was ecstatic that it now had so much more power than on the drive back to my house.  Last I heard, he still had the bike.

That's how I sold the same bike 3 times. ;D

Cheers,









Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Yooper 550

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 09:57:05 PM »
Great Story TT thanks for sharing.  It's too bad that the kid didn't take the time to stop think and learn.  I was just such a buyer at one point, always loved motorcycles.  The sound, the smell, the look, and the adrenalin rush of being on the edge.  (Whatever so sue me.)  So knowing nothing I bought a bike.  A 76 cb550F and I loaded her in a trail blazer by hand with no ramp, something I would never suggest, and lugged her home.  Upon unloading her and knowing nothing I thought I had destroyed the bike dropping it after unloading it.  Yeah I was furious at my self.  So I searched and searched and find a guy to look at it.  He comes over and kicks it to life!  I was shocked, I thought this machine was dead as stones and here it was humming away in all it's glory.  That's when I admitted to myself I was an idiot, but also decided not for long.  I learned to change the oil and battery first and did this first after realizing the PO could be running some really rough oil and I had no history of changes.  It also had a Walmart battery.  Pardon me while I go have myself a good cry. 

Okay, so after that I learned how to ride.  Whenever I had the chance I was burning gas and laying road behind me.  I was alive.  What a bike to learn on, though I either still am terrible at shifting, or I need to service the tranny.  Regardless, here I am and it's winter and I just got back from winterizing my bike.  I can't wait for summer to come.  Then I can take her apart, soda blast her clean, and rebuild the engine and carbs.  I'm terrified to say the least cause she's my only bike, but when that guy kicked my own bike into life after my trying what seemed like everything.  I knew I needed to learn, and that's what I'm gonna do.  Also after ridding more motorcycles then my 550 I have Honda fever.  I just hope there are enough of these bikes left that even as young as I am I can get my self a few.  Another one to make into a cafe racer at least.  Anyways I guess I ramble.  Cheers.

Offline brewsky

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Re: CB550 carb rejetting advice needed.
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2013, 02:03:55 AM »
Heres something I found on the net a while ago, hope it helps

This document is based on Mikuni Carburetors. But the theory follows through on all carburetors. Be aware that Mikuni Main jets increment in steps of 2.5, Hitachi Main jets increment in steps of 2.0. Hitachi Main jets (screw in style [Yamaha XJ's] are available in sizes from 110-134 in increments of 2.0. All this means that if you find you need to go up 4 steps on the main jets according to this chart (2.5x4) the step up would be 10.0. For Hitachi mains the step up would be 5 jet sizes (2.0x5) since following this chart for Hitachi mains would put you at 8.0 which is very close to 7.5 which would be 3 steps according to this chart.

Jetting Recommendations
by Denny Zander

Here is a simple set of jetting guidelines that have worked for me. For those considering jet changes, this might help select a starting point.

1 jet size for custom 4 into 2 exhaust

2 jet sizes for 4 into 1 exhaust
1 jet size for K&N filter (single inside airbox)

1 jet size for drilling out the bottom of the airbox

2 jet sizes for both single K&N and drilled airbox

2 jet sizes for individual filters

2 jet sizes for no muffler (open header)

1 pilot jet size for every 3 main jet size increase

Add up all the jet size increases and subtract one. (Remember they go in steps of 2.5 for each jet size)

Under a mismatch condition, like individual filters and stock exhaust or 4 into 1 header with stock filter and air box, subtract an additional 1 jet size.

Check plug color often, sync carbs after each jet change, make sure the floats are set correctly, and seriously consider purchasing a Color Tune. (See "Color tuning Carburetors" in the Maintenance Section).

Make sure your carbs are in perfect working order before making jet changes.

Example from my '79 XS1100 F:
Stock main jets: 137.5

I would question this recommendation if the system is the common MAC with stock baffel, as they are very restrictive. If it has the open "performance baffel", then maybe.
66 CA77
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