Author Topic: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?  (Read 3551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PHeller

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« on: August 26, 2010, 07:39:28 AM »
A buddy of mine said he had pretty good luck with syncing a four cylinder bike with two tubes filled with oil and a rough adapter.

The EMGO 2 cylinder kit is only $40, and honestly, I'm not afraid to pay that for two vacuum gauges.

Is there any reason I couldn't use these vacuum gauges for other automotive purposes?

and

Is there any downside two only using two gauges?

I heard you snyc 1-3, 2-4 and 2-3.

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2010, 08:44:17 AM »
Every small adjustment you make to each carb during synching affects the vacuum of all three other carbs.  You basically go back and forth between three carbs, making tiny adjustments, until all four are the same.  The only way to do it effectively is with four gauges. 

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2010, 08:45:24 AM »
It won't work properly, you need to be able to watch all four at the same time because one adjustment changes all of them.
Pony up a little more money if you want to do it right and buy a 4 gauge set.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,367
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2010, 09:01:15 AM »
After doing the job, I can tell you it will drive you nuts for the reasons above. A four gage unit is not much more than $40.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

bollingball

  • Guest
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2010, 09:13:05 AM »
Well it can be done however it will take a lot longer going back a forth and when you take the hose off one you have to plug the hole off if is a 77 or 78 cb750 number two is fixes you would read that one first for reference.

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,044
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2010, 09:12:56 PM »
Yamaha used to do one gauge with a rotary selector knob so that all the lines could be connected but used only one dial----IT WAS A PAIN IN THE A*SE TO USE
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline edgimeno

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2010, 07:58:02 AM »
I just got done syncing my 750K8 using 4 clear tubes and some engine oil, and i can confirm that adjusting one carb will affect the other 3.  Took me less then 10 dollars and about 30 minutes worth of time to get all 4 running at the same vacuum.

Like everyone else has said many, many times, it makes a noticeable difference in the way the bike runs. Much smoother throttle response.

my .02 cents....

Offline OrganDonor

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • My other hobby...
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2010, 10:19:37 AM »
Edgimeno, any chance you can share your list of parts?  Or take a photo?  Would love to do this but have never seen a gauge to get a feel as to how to construct one. 
77 CB500K
80 CB650 Custom
76 CB750K

Offline edgimeno

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 12:10:32 PM »
i used 4 equal length plastic tubes from Home Depot/Lowe's/ any hardware store.

I connected all 4 tubes at the bottom using t-connectors from an irrigation slow drip system so all 4 shared the same oil.

You should have 4 tubes, with one end open, and one end connected to each other so the only way air can get in is through the 4 open ends. it should look roughly like this:

|   |   |   |
|   |   |   |
|   |   |   |
|   |   |   |
----------

i then blocked off the middle two with my thumb, placed one of the remaining tubes in a quart of oil, and the last tube i used to suck oil into the contraption.  I then hung the tubes so the oil rested on the side that was joined together with t's.  mind you, i used 10 foot long sections of tubing, and hung them of a hook in my garage ceiling.  in about a minute or so, the oil will settle down and rest equally in all 4 tubes, like this:

|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
-  -  -  -
|  |  |  |
--------

I then hook the tubes up the the carbs, you can use little 1/8 plastic connectors for a slow drip irrigation system and push them into the carb ports, or i have even seen 5mm welding tips being used as well.  as long as the seal is snug and tight, this device works perfectly.

the theory behind this is that the carbs vacuum will fight against each other and raise the oil in the tubes that have greater vacuum in contrast to the other ones.  At first i was skeptical, but once i started the bike, this thing actually worked!!!!!

|  |  |  |
|  |  |  _
|  |  _  |
_  |  |  |
|  _  |  |
|  |  |  |
--------

i could slowly see tube #4 (carb #4, left to right sitting down) rising to the ceiling, while 1 and 2 dropped, so i adjusted the slide on 4 and the other two evened out a bit, the 2 started to rise, etc.... I kept on tweaking until all 4 oil levels where relatively close to one another, establishing a consistent vacuum between the carbs.  basically, since 2 is your constant (cannot be adjusted), you want the other 3 to match, i started by closing them all so 2 was the highest, then started with the lowest of the remaining three and brought it up to match.  it took a little patience as the sensitivity of this device is actually rather extreme, the littlest of adjustments on the carbs would cause the oil to rise or lower quite a bit.  eventually they got pretty close to each other, like this:

|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
-  -  -  -
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
--------

I think this might be easier to look at than say, 4 bouncing needles in a dial gauge, especially if the gauges are not right next to each other.  Four 1/8" tubes (what i used), sitting right next to each other might have been an inch and a half wide at the most, REAL easy to see all 4 carbs at once.

I understand you die-hards and the fact that you do not consider this an accurate machine, however, we are not trying to establish a set vacuum reading for the carbs when synching, just trying to get consistent vacuum between the carbs in relation to one another, and this machine did the trick.  I understand that this does not, or will it ever, establish a base point in carb 2 as being within spec, and this device assumes that your carb 2 is withing spec.

I think all in all, i might have spent $10 in total parts for this device.

Google (or whatever search engine you prefer) "Homemade Manometer" (although this definition is incorrect, this is not a manometer), and you should see several threads with pictures of various contraptions.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 12:12:14 PM by edgimeno »

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,132
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 12:21:32 PM »
Quote
... and the fact that you do not consider this an accurate machine...
But... this is the most accurate machine. Physically it can't be better than this. It can never lie. Congrats.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline OrganDonor

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • My other hobby...
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 01:00:24 PM »
Thanks loads - this sounds like fun!
77 CB500K
80 CB650 Custom
76 CB750K

Offline OrganDonor

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • My other hobby...
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 02:21:52 PM »
Just a brief update - I followed edgimeno's instructions (mostly ;D) in building my own contraption to sync the carbs, and it worked famously.  Can't believe the difference it makes in the performace of the bike, especially at idle.  The other symptom on my 550 was some popping in the exhaust (backfiring) on deceleration that is completely gone with the sync adjustment.  After making all the other tune-up adjustments on the bike, syncing the carbs had to me the effect of making the bike run like new - perfect idle, smooth acceleration, etc.

I can definitely see why two gauges won't work, too - each adjustment is usually followed by another on a different carb (or two). 
77 CB500K
80 CB650 Custom
76 CB750K

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,367
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: Syncing 4 Cylinder with Two Gauges?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 04:04:40 PM »
Here is an old thread on building your own: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=23038.0
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?