Author Topic: Shock Absorbers  (Read 21157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Phil

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2010, 10:02:33 am »
Assen was great - yes, long chat with Croz who remembered I changed the oil in his forks at Oliver's Mount- said the old Moriwaki handled worse than it did before - hope he was kidding!! His bike is for sale £50k - any takers?

Offline IRISHCBRACER

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 120
    • My first build - 1976 CB550
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2010, 09:38:17 pm »
Looking into a good Ohlins dealer in CA who is going to contact Ohlins for a built to length shock (HO140)for the CB550. I believe the stock extended length eye to eye is 320mm/12.6".

Anyone interested in a group buy for hopefully a better discount? I am getting quoted $650 + tax for the HO140's unmodified.

Offline somesuch

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2010, 12:06:18 am »
I've been running Koni's for most of my CB750 years. There's gotta be a better shock after all these years - or has the clevis screwed us out of any further development? No chance of Ohlins, darn it...or is there?
Hyperpro or Works Performance.....you have 1000.00 for those babies. ;)

I would not give two cents to Hyperpro after the way they handled all the problems with their steering dampers....search on leaking steering damper hyperpro.... Works has always been a great company

--Nick

Offline Phil

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2011, 03:17:35 am »
I now have 2 pairs of knackered Konis - good old ebay! I have now decided to buy a new pair from Maxtons who will custom-make them for me. They will calculate spring-rate etc. but my question is - what length should they be? What is the optimum length for racing? The mounting position top and bottom is as per standard K6. Should I go for the standard length 0f 13" (330mm) or try and get a bit more weight on the front by going longer? Your experience/ views would be most welcome.

Offline bear

  • Vale Bill McIntosh ......"illegitimi non carborundum"
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,575
  • Leeton in Australia
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2011, 04:31:51 pm »
I now have 2 pairs of knackered Koni's - good old ebay! I have now decided to buy a new pair from Maxtons who will custom-make them for me. They will calculate spring-rate etc. but my question is - what length should they be? What is the optimum length for racing? The mounting position top and bottom is as per standard K6. Should I go for the standard length 0f 13" (330mm) or try and get a bit more weight on the front by going longer? Your experience/ views would be most welcome.

Koni is now called Ikon, it is owned and operated by a bloke in Albury Australia.
He's a bit of a prat but has worked in the suspension game for many years and certainly knows his stuff.
I ran Koni units on our chair front and back.
Both units where well past their use by date.
I replaced the rear with a Wilburs unit.
And I got  Ikon to refurbish/ upgrade the Koni's and re rate the springs.
The price was good compared to the cost of the rear unit I had made.
Link attached below.

Cheers,
Brian

http://www.ikonsuspension.com/
The older I get the faster I was.

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,231
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2011, 10:50:30 pm »
I now have 2 pairs of knackered Konis - good old ebay! I have now decided to buy a new pair from Maxtons who will custom-make them for me. They will calculate spring-rate etc. but my question is - what length should they be? What is the optimum length for racing? The mounting position top and bottom is as per standard K6. Should I go for the standard length 0f 13" (330mm) or try and get a bit more weight on the front by going longer? Your experience/ views would be most welcome.

Phil,

IMHO if using standard length swing dont get overboard in length. If using the F2 swing you can go up a bit more.

Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2011, 11:15:35 pm »
How much longer is the F2 arm Rob.?

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,231
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2011, 11:52:36 am »
How much longer is the F2 arm Rob.?

Mick


Hey Mick,

F2 swingarm is 1"longer than the K-swing. One of the problems with the K is the short swing. I found that by using a longer swing, my swing is 40 m/m longer than oem makes the bike much more stable, due to the longer wheelbase. By using a 18"front and the bigger off-set triples from a DOHC, makes it steer much faster. Depending on circuit I use oem length Hagon shocks for the longer ones and for the short 'mickey Mouse' circuits I use longer Koni's.

Rob

Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2011, 02:58:53 pm »
Sorry for the Hijack guys. Rob, you say bigger offset, can you give us a bit more info, i am going to have some triple clamps made for my 43 mm forks and haven't made up my mind on offset yet {was going to go 50mm}. I thought the later Honda's had slightly less offset, 10mm less.?

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,547
  • Big ideas....
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2011, 03:02:12 pm »
How much longer is the F2 arm Rob.?

Mick


Hey Mick,

F2 swingarm is 1"longer than the K-swing. One of the problems with the K is the short swing. I found that by using a longer swing, my swing is 40 m/m longer than oem makes the bike much more stable, due to the longer wheelbase. By using a 18"front and the bigger off-set triples from a DOHC, makes it steer much faster. Depending on circuit I use oem length Hagon shocks for the longer ones and for the short 'mickey Mouse' circuits I use longer Koni's.

Rob

Rob
Yes. Absolutely Rob.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline kos

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 718
    • m3racing.com
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2011, 03:52:12 pm »
If you want to step up to one of the best options in the world for shocks for any SOHC bike out there. Take a look. Less than two pounds each in weight.  Built to your weight and swingarm geometry. Works Suspension, carved from billet. They work on any track, short or long and have much newer technology than koni are only equal to Ohlins out there..
Interested... contact mark@m3racing.com

$749.99 + shipping

KOS
220...221, whatever it takes.

Offline fastbroshi

  • Puppet
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2011, 08:49:58 pm »
Shoot, the "Works" stickers are on upside down, they must be crap!!  Very nice Mark.  What adjustments do they have?
Just call me Timmaaaaay!!!

Offline Sukin

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2011, 12:55:53 am »
Some my friends use Hagon on theirs racers and they tell that is OK, it is really cheap solution.

Offline kos

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 718
    • m3racing.com
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2011, 06:34:23 am »
Shoot, the "Works" stickers are on upside down, they must be crap!!  Very nice Mark.  What adjustments do they have?


Stickers on are the right way as you run these "upside down" or with heavy end up, IE: body towards the top and thus less unsprung weight. Adjustments? proper shocks built to rider's weight and bikes triangulation/swingarm angle, do not need adjustments, other than preload. Once we installed these shocks on our M3 racer and set preload we never, ever even looked at the rear shocks again.


KOS
220...221, whatever it takes.

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,231
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2011, 08:33:29 am »
I agree with Mark, but........people need to take a close look to what they want to do with their bikes and in what conditions they use them.
If your riding in changeable conditions, with pillion, or without, tankbag on or off etc. a good replacement shock will do just fine. No need for that fancy stuff. Even if your riding trackdays or even in a sportclass and you're not able to set suspension, keep out of them!
If you want/need(!) top act, draw your wallet and go for it.

Rob
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 09:11:09 am by voxonda »
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline somesuch

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2011, 09:03:00 am »
I agree with Mark, but........people need to take a close look to what they want to do with their bikes and in what conditions they use them.
If your riding in changable conditions, with pillion, or without, tankbag on or off etc. a good replacement shock will do just fine. No need for that fancy stuff. Even if your riding trackdays or even in a sportclass and you're not able to set suspension, keep out of them!
If you want/need(!) top act, draw your wallet and go for it.

Rob

Rob,

I would like to respectfully disagree. I think that safety of much improved grip and better handling could be put to use by anyone riding. Granted, it may be without their knowledge :)  i.e. they will never be aware of how good their suspension is, but (despite such ignorance) they will be able to make bigger mistakes and still stay upright. Those that can't set up a bike, should spend the $20 to have it setup for them.

I would like to re-iterate respectfully, as I after reading many of your posts, that is my sentiment.

--Nick

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,231
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2011, 10:11:28 am »
Hi Nick,

Fully understood. But, maybe thru my lack of sufficient English, what I mean to say is you do not need the Ohlins and other top of the bill to ride save. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hagon, Ikon(koni), YSS shocks.
And if you use the bike in different conditions, having your suspension setup is near impossible. One cannot setup the suspension perfect for both solo or pillion rides. If you have it setup near perfect, even putting on a tankbag with some stuff in it can destroy the setup due to changed weight distribution. And please do not forget setting up  your bike includes much more than just shocks.
Hope this put some light on what I meant.

Regards, Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline malcolmgb

  • What am I not? an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,401
  • The BEST 400 four by far
    • malcnet
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2011, 10:26:57 am »
I now have 2 pairs of knackered Konis - good old ebay! I have now decided to buy a new pair from Maxtons who will custom-make them for me. They will calculate spring-rate etc. but my question is - what length should they be? What is the optimum length for racing? The mounting position top and bottom is as per standard K6. Should I go for the standard length 0f 13" (330mm) or try and get a bit more weight on the front by going longer? Your experience/ views would be most welcome.

What are you doing with your scrap Koni's? I could with the lower moving spring seats from some.
Malcolm

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

1977 CB400F
1973 CL175 K7
1976 XL175 - Sold
1964 CL72
1966 CA78
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=1988

Offline kos

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 718
    • m3racing.com
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2011, 11:10:34 am »
I agree with Mark, but........people need to take a close look to what they want to do with their bikes and in what conditions they use them.
If your riding in changeable conditions, with pillion, or without, tankbag on or off etc. a good replacement shock will do just fine. No need for that fancy stuff. Even if your riding trackdays or even in a sportclass and you're not able to set suspension, keep out of them!
If you want/need(!) top act, draw your wallet and go for it.

Rob

Of course, if one is using the bike for street use at times... then we are way off using shocks like the ones I sell and promote. I thought this was posted on the racing /high perf section? That subject should not be on High Performance thread but moved over to  the more basic of SOHC forum questions/topics.

Mark

220...221, whatever it takes.

Offline somesuch

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2011, 11:24:54 am »
Rob,

It is my post that is less than clear :) . I felt lazy and wanted to make it as succinct as possible. I completely agree about the importance of tailoring the setup to conditions/riding double/etc.  In my previous post I did not want to name brands that in my mind are only good for rolling the bike in the driveway, well maybe some sedate riding too :) but instead, wanted to say that in my experience, now that I know a bit more about riding, good suspension that is set up/ modified/re-valved for the riding style/conditions/etc. is very valuable to anyone riding. Anyone will benefit from such efforts, even though they may not realize it.  I have seen some terrible riding/driving, only made possible by excellent equipment. The people usually had no idea that they had done something wrong, but were "saved" buy the quality of their machine. I have had many pairs of Koni shocks and I was never happy with how the bike worked. I attributed that to my inability to "dial them in" correctly...after 30 years of riding, I still can't dial <choose your brand of bad shocks> in, but I have no trouble dialing in (close enough) the shocks modified buy a very reputable suspension shop.....(the credit is all their :) they do the re-spring/re-valve/internal modifications)  

Maybe the cheaper brands in question are better now, I am not sure since I stopped buying them, and the ones I come across are the older versions that come on the bikes I buy/ride. Though I still do hear from the people around here that the common cheap replacement brand, is still not a very good choice if you want a shock to do more than just to hold the back of your bike up :)

I am guilty of buying the real cheap stuff myself, as I bought a pair of piggy-back shocks in China for $22 could not pass that up :)

Bottom line, I try to advocate to people who seek my advise (not many) to buy the best suspension/tires they can afford as this may save them in the future.  My riding may not be very typical, hence my experience not very applicable to others :)


--Nick


Offline somesuch

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2011, 11:32:55 am »
...
Of course, if one is using the bike for street use at times... then we are way off using shocks like the ones I sell and promote. I thought this was posted on the racing /high perf section? That subject should not be on High Performance thread but moved over to  the more basic of SOHC forum questions/topics.

Mark



Mark, I have not seen the inner workings of the Works shock as of late. Do you have any pictures of them apart? Is there a unique feature in their design that sets them apart? I am considering a pair of shocks for my 82 Katana, but I want the ability to adjust Hi/Lo compression, rebound, and length at the minimum. Quick preload adjustment that does not get all buggered up in use would be nice too.


--Nick

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,231
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2011, 12:15:33 pm »
Of course, if one is using the bike for street use at times... then we are way off using shocks like the ones I sell and promote. I thought this was posted on the racing /high perf section? That subject should not be on High Performance thread but moved over to  the more basic of SOHC forum questions/topics.

Mark

Mark, you're right. Only tried to clear things, since I think it is not only folks who are in racing business who read this. What I just do not see, is the fact you state you did not change anything but preload. Looks strange to me, since we had to change not ony pre-load but also (therefor) damping when racing in wet. Tires behave very different in these conditions.
We once entered a long distance race, and changed from 10º clipons to straight clipons to give the riders some comfort. This messed up the entire setting. Again just to make clear.
Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline Phil

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2011, 06:19:26 am »
Most informative. I am still going for Maxton T260-C shocks. The question is what length! Anyone know if a K7 swing-arm is the same length as the F2 one?

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,231
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2011, 09:30:29 am »
Hey Phil,

Do you have a K7 swing? If you have, take some measurements so I can compare with the F2 I have lying around.
If you do not change the headstock angle and go too wild on your off-set you can go a little longer than oem. I'll check the lengths after dinner.

Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline napoleonb

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: Shock Absorbers
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2011, 10:52:20 am »
I've got a K7 swing arm so if you need those measurements just shout.