Topic: Ignition Problems

[Gordon]

Come off it Terry !...... would take me ( you ) about 2 mins. to loosen the little point wire bolt and slide the cond. forked terminal under the point wires to reconnect them  I could do that by feel in complete darkness  .... and if I had a HM ign. mod I would be sure to wire it with bypass option...... but thats just me 

How do you know those condensers are still good?  Will they work after months/ years of sitting under the points cover unused and untried?  

[Spanner 1]

LOL........ got my payback....

[Gordon]

 

Of all the ongoing debates on this forum that will never be resolved, the points vs. electronic ignition is definitely my favorite.



Probably because I could be equally in favor of either side, but I have to defend the Dyna because I have it on both of my current bikes.

[Grnrngr]

too bad no one makes a decent diesel motorcycle..

[Markcb750]

Makes you wonder about the low-rpm torque, but then it sure is ugly.

[youtube=425,350]5rLymowVSQU[/youtube]






I am sure you would enjoy something from this selection

[Terry in Australia]

Come off it Terry !...... would take me ( you ) about 2 mins. to loosen the little point wire bolt and slide the cond. forked terminal under the point wires to reconnect them  I could do that by feel in complete darkness  .... and if I had a HM ign. mod I would be sure to wire it with bypass option...... but thats just me 

Really? So there you are, in the dark, it's raining, and you reckon you can get your cold frozen fingers working well enough to manipulate your two tiny 5 or 6mm (depending on which model ignition you've fitted) spanners with your torch (if you've got one) in your mouth, so you can re-connect your condensors Spanny? In two minutes?

Hey do me a favor will you, it's pretty cold on your side of the pond right now, yeah? Take your bike for a ride one wet night next week, and after an hour or so of riding, film yourself removing and replacing a pair of condensor wires, and post it here mate? If you can do it in two minutes, I'll buy you a bottle of Jameson Irish Whiskey! Oh, and if you fitted a Hondaman ignition amplifier, how would you bypass your condensors? 

[z1100r]

 How many SOHC owners are going to be stuck in the dark on a cold wet night these days...!!!!! Get real, most are only ridden for an hour or so around mid day on warm summer days.
   There is the odd one still in frequent all weather use all year round, 5 years ago mine was one of those - in fact i specifically used it if the weather was real bad. It was my expendable rat bike and I didn't care about it from a rust or damage point of view.
   From 1984-2002 it was in fairly regular use, certainly it was regular through the winters - it was my winter bike for years. From 86 on its only ever had points/condensors and  I definately never changed them, they might even be the originals, and they are still on the bike now. I did buy some new ones years ago with the intention of changing them but I just found those in my stash of spares unused....

I just started renovating the bike and maaan,,, I wish hadn't been so cruel to it now. You can hear it running here..after being left in the back of a horsebox lorry for 4 years - 4 year old petrol and still the same old points/condensors...!!!
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=3362.0

[Terry in Australia]

 How many SOHC owners are going to be stuck in the dark on a cold wet night these days...!!!!! Get real, most are only ridden for an hour or so around mid day on warm summer days.
   There is the odd one still in frequent all weather use all year round, 5 years ago mine was one of those - in fact i specifically used it if the weather was real bad. It was my expendable rat bike and I didn't care about it from a rust or damage point of view.
   From 1984-2002 it was in fairly regular use, certainly it was regular through the winters - it was my winter bike for years. From 86 on its only ever had points/condensors and  I definately never changed them, they might even be the originals, and they are still on the bike now. I did buy some new ones years ago with the intention of changing them but I just found those in my stash of spares unused....

I just started renovating the bike and maaan,,, I wish hadn't been so cruel to it now. You can hear it running here..after being left in the back of a horsebox lorry for 4 years - 4 year old petrol and still the same old points/condensors...!!!
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=3362.0

Geez, you're right mate, what a POS! And I agree, you being a Pom and all, your summers only last for an hour or so each year, so I can understand why your bike doesn't get much of a run, but a lot of the guys here don't own several vehicles, and they have no choice but to use their bikes for regular commuting duties, so I gather that it's pretty important to them that they can ride their bikes in any weather, at any time of the night or day, therefore, I think that it's a "real" concern for them that they may well get caught out in the dark, or in the wet, (or both) regardless of what's happening in the "Old Dart". Cheers, Terry.

[Retro Rocket]

How many SOHC owners are going to be stuck in the dark on a cold wet night these days...!!!!! Get real, most are only ridden for an hour or so around mid day on warm summer days.

You can tell he's a pom Terry, as you know, in winter in Queensland we sometimes wear long sleeve shirts......365 days of riding up here....

[z1100r]

I dont think you understood me. I dont have a car, I only ride bikes. I think you Aussie softies ought to try 356 days a year up here (for 30 odd years).
   I have commuted on bikes back and forth to work for the last 30 years everyday in all weathers - and I mean the lot. The little Honda was my winter bike. My z1100r Kawa was my summer bike. However, they interchanged sometimes depending on which one needed tyres or chain.

   As you can imagine the Honda probably did most of the commuting - the Kawa was always in need of one or the other. I still have both bikes, the Kawa was kinda tidied up last year for the IOM tt....the Honda is getting tidied up for this years.

  My Hondas points/condensors had outlived 4 electronic ignitions before 1987...the fact that they are still going aswell...holy crap. Whats the life span of electronic components.?.I know its not great on some things...certainly not guaranteed for 25 years even if they are never taken from their new box. Now you could say the condensor is only an electronic component, well yeah, its a capacitor, exactly whats inside your mysterious 100 dollar black box.

The Hondas second Piranha ignition (now Newtronic) lasted 2 years (I believe because I left the ignition on for an hour - well so they told me). The Kawa is 1984 and still has its OE electronic ignition. I dont have a thing about electronic ignitions, just aftermarket ones.

My latest workhorse (daily hack) is a 15 year old YZF1000 ThunderArse....Mint when I got it....not too good now..hehehe

[Skunk Stripe]

Z, you suffer from user error. Sorry but you do not know what "all weather" truly is. Fact is, the ONLY way you ride a motorcycle here is if you got something to keep you upright. from first snow till everything melts, our roads are snow and ice covered. And no, you do not know what it is like. I know you want to talk big but no one buys it.
I have ridden in plenty of rain with electronic ignitions and never had a failure. In FACT, bike for 3 decades now have been doing that with no failures. I do not see junkyards full of bikes with bad ignitions.
As terry might say, you are full of #$%*e. You are not on the original points and condensers unless of course you ride about 10 miles a year. points only last so long no matter how well you take care of them, they are a consumable. So really, you could say that every time you change points, it is because they have failed. Pretty sure there are bikes with electronic igniotions that are from the 80's and are still original. Points can't make that claim, oh wait, unless you never ride the bike.

[Nikkisixx]

Come off it Terry !...... would take me ( you ) about 2 mins. to loosen the little point wire bolt and slide the cond. forked terminal under the point wires to reconnect them  I could do that by feel in complete darkness  .... and if I had a HM ign. mod I would be sure to wire it with bypass option...... but thats just me 

Really? So there you are, in the dark, it's raining, and you reckon you can get your cold frozen fingers working well enough to manipulate your two tiny 5 or 6mm (depending on which model ignition you've fitted) spanners with your torch (if you've got one) in your mouth, so you can re-connect your condensors Spanny? In two minutes?

I'd wager he can do it with a pint in one hand and sore finger on the other.  I myself can do it while sitting on the bike going down the road. 

Wait, what are we talking about?   

[z1100r]

Skank strop...your a nice guy too...

 I am on the original points/condensor and the bikes done about 85,000 miles. You dont read too well do you...? Its had a few electronic ignitions in the early years, it also did about 3 years with no speedo cable. Full of SIHT eh...I can think of someone with an appropiate name who fits that bill.

Fair play on the weather, I only include UK roads that are actually open, that is 99.9% of them all year round regardless of weather - I'm in the middle, not Wales or Scotland, dead centre of England......I'm certainly not talking about horrendous parts of Canada or the US. I fail to see what the big deal is about the weather. The point is I ride a bike all year round and dont have a car. The UK is renowned for its inclement climate.

 I was defending myself against some sarcastic comment made by the Wizard of Aus eluding to the fact that I rarely ride my bike  because of our #$%* UK weather. Try and keep up Skank.

[Markcb750]

All in good fun people, all in good fun. 


 

[TwoTired]

I have two brand new points plates from Honda waiting to go on a 550 that needs them.   I bought the points plate assemblies back in the late 80's, early 90's.  I remember they were $47 each.  (Dyna was $110 at that time)  The plates sit in the garage drawer waiting for the time I can't redress the points at 3000-5000 miles intervals with a quick swipe of a points file.  I do worry about the condensers remaining uncharged for all these years.  So far so good on that.  I think my 74 CB550 is on its second new points set since 1975 and 55000 miles.  The first one was replaced due to rust issues, stemming from a bad cover seal (3-4 months a year ridding in wet weather here).  The second one was when the parts counter man convinced me a new one would make it run much better.  It didn't.  He also tried his best to sell me that Dyna-s.  All the rest of my bikes have the same points and condenser set they came with, redressed and checked for function, of course.

When the points rubbing block wears down, or I run out of point contact material, I have a replacement waiting to go in.  Anybody that tells me the points have to be replaced frequently, simply doesn't have any credibility with me.  Yes, they do need more attention than generic "electronic", and they have a degrade curve, particularly if your maintenance routine is lax/lazy.  But, they don't have any real reliability issues for those that are able to pay at least a little attention to them.

If the Dyna-s wasn't a flawed design, I might consider it an actual upgrade.  While the 750 can tolerate it's power hogging abilities, particularly with an additional battery upgrade, the smaller bikes struggle with it, or require a more restricted riding regime/envelope (biased toward higher RPMs), and projected battery life issues, due to an over taxed charging system.

Cheers,

[Skunk Stripe]

Skank strop...your a nice guy too... 

 I am on the original points/condensor and the bikes done about 85,000 miles. You dont read too well do you...? Its had a few electronic ignitions in the early years, it also did about 3 years with no speedo cable. Full of SIHT eh...I can think of someone with an appropiate name who fits that bill.

Fair play on the weather, I only include UK roads that are actually open, that is 99.9% of them all year round regardless of weather - I'm in the middle, not Wales or Scotland, dead centre of England......I'm certainly not talking about horrendous parts of Canada or the US. I fail to see what the big deal is about the weather. The point is I ride a bike all year round and dont have a car. The UK is renowned for its inclement climate.

 I was defending myself against some sarcastic comment made by the Wizard of Aus eluding to the fact that I rarely ride my bike  because of our #$%* UK weather. Try and keep up Skank.

Please z, you can't do better than that? First off, did all those 85000 miles happen on JUST the points? According to you, no. So then, how many miles did electronic ignitions together log? Any actualy number or will you just make one up? So what if you drove with no speedo cable. big deal, not like it is a part required for the bike to operate. Ride without the clutch cable. Oh I am sure you have done that too. 
As for weather, YOU brought it up and I called you on it. Fact is, other than rain, you see no real weather. I have ridden in rain with 30+ mph(not kph) crosswinds and my dyna(and points before that) worked fine.
So please, at least speak something decent instead of petty names which only degrade whatever opinion you may be trying to make.
Again, if you had THAT many ignitions fail, you did something wrong. Sorry but others have had dynas for years and never had a failure. Can it happen? Sure but not that many times in such a short amount of time in weather no different than what anyone else has ridden in. For this to have happened, it would have been induced. Maybe you forgot to replace the cork "seal" with something actually capable of sealing the points cover.

[z1100r]

 I'm not going to go through it again....suggest you re-read what the weather thing was all about (you seem obsessed with that and seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick entirely)....maybe you could refrain from calling me a liar but I'm guessing thats not going to happen. Why the hell I would make up stories about my little old Honda....Ive had it from 5 years old.

   I have no idea how many miles the ignitions logged...2 of them blew on my race bike...the simplest posible wiring - no generator just total loss off a battery. Nothing to do with wet weather...manufacturer blamed static. Had to put the bloody points plate back on.

The first ignition I tried was a Martek...that lasted a seasons racing  on a 460 before just not wanting to work for the next season. No idea what happened to that. It was just switch on to fire the bike up before the start of the season and nothing. Put the bloody points plate back on...!! Send it back but out of warranty and they did sod all about it.

The Piranha/Newtronic on the road bike lasted 2 years and finally blew when I left the ignition on for an hour (well thats what the manufacturer said had caused it). It had done 2 years commuting 50miles a day and general running about.. Put the sodding points plate back on again.   From then on its stayed on and I haven't purchased any other aftermarket electronics since. Well not for my Honda 4's anyway.

 I did get a Zeeltronic programmable YPVS/ignition controller for my my RD350 and RD500 track bikes. I got it cost from the manufacture as I helped do the testing for him. His names Borut and he lives in Slovenia, not sure what colour underpants he wears but I could ask him if you like.

Do you sell ignitions or other aftermarket electronics...?? Or just have a problem with me for some reason.

PS the point about the speedo cable missing was that its definately done alot more miles than that....I dont know the actual mileage just that the majority has been done on the same set of points and condensors.....maybe I dreamed that though.

Edit: oops got the wrong guy..not Ralf but Borut

[Retro Rocket]

I was defending myself against some sarcastic comment made by the Wizard of Aus eluding to the fact that I rarely ride my bike  because of our #$%* UK weather. Try and keep up Skank.

Problem is you don't know the difference between light hearted fun and sarcasm mate, you know your weather is #$%* we know your weather is #$%* so where's the problem....   Look at your post dude, you jumped in with "get real" and that was what Terry was responding too. If you didn't like his answer then why make a stupid comment in the first place.

[z1100r]

 is Get real bad then....sorry. FFS I was merely pointing out that these old Hondas rarely find themselves in the conditions he was using as an example to justify the use of .....oh sod it I cant be bothered

[Retro Rocket]

"Get real" in that context was like saying "stop bull#$%*ting", and thats generally how its used......If you weren't so new you would know that Terry knows his #$%* and is a very clued up guy. No one really cares but don't get all offended when someone answers back with a bit of sarcasm mate, we are all bikers after all, all types and shapes....

[z1100r]

Oh my gawd none of that offended me and I hope nothing I said offended him. Because I'm new to this particular forum I felt I ought to explain my circumstances..thats all.

My subsequent responses have all been to:-

 And no, you do not know what it is like. I know you want to talk big but no one buys it.
 As terry might say, you are full of #$%*e.
 You are not on the original points and condensers unless of course you ride about 10 miles a year.
 Pretty sure there are bikes with electronic igniotions that are from the 80's and are still original. Points can't make that claim, oh wait, unless you never ride the bike.

I think I was pretty restrained....

[Skunk Stripe]

PS the point about the speedo cable missing was that its definately done alot more miles than that....I dont know the actual mileage just that the majority has been done on the same set of points and condensors.....maybe I dreamed that though.

And yet another stupid quote. A speedo cable can go bad from 0 use or crappy maintenance.
Clearly you do not get it. You are just being a loud mouthed braggart and thats it.

[z1100r]

 Errrm..You lost me definate. You're either dim, desperate for an argument, or just plain enjoy insulting folk. Either way an odd ball.

[Retro Rocket]

Time to move on folks......

Hang around ZZr, this place is full of great guys with more info than one can digest in a lifetime.....

[Markcb750]

The amount of passion we can debate the fine details of keeping 35 year old machines running reminds me of this:


[youtube=425,350]tGiCkd1kBHU&feature[/youtube]