Author Topic: Breather?  (Read 16478 times)

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Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2011, 03:27:35 PM »
No doubt I have tweaking to do. I probably do te majority of my riding in 3rd gear - since there's a stop sign every 100 yards or so. But regardless, I know it should be better than this.

That being said, I haven't really been paying close attention. That will cone in the near future when the weather breaks.

I'll continue my search, and for now, pinch off the drain hose a bit to see if I can mimic air proper flow.

The side hose is already connected to the valve cover.

Thanks again TT
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

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Offline Scott S

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2011, 10:12:43 AM »
 Are there any "upgrades" or better ways to vent the breather on a CB500? Mine just has the open hose that goes down behind the engine.

 A breather filter for the end of it?
 Vented back to the air box some how?
 Leave it as Honda intended?
 A Reed type PCV valve?

 This is from MikesXS and obviously written with the XS650 in mind, but the principle should be the same.
 "Reed type Positive crankcase ventilation Valve.
Valve hooks to engine top breather vent and allows expelled air out but reed
prevents air re-entering quickly so a very small vacuum is created in the
crankcase. A small power increase has been noted during dyno tests (most
notable on pre 77 engines) and the crankcase vacuum helps prevent crankcase
pressure from pushing oil past oil seals and case joints."

 Scroll down and look at part #15-0677. You can find pretty much the same thing at an auto parts store.
'71 CB500 K0
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'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2011, 01:37:28 PM »
Quote
Leave it as Honda intended?
Yep. Actually quite some 550 owners overhere preferred to disconnect there breather and had it vent into the open as on the 500. This after bad experiences with fouled paper airfilter elements.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2011, 02:31:14 PM »
Are there any "upgrades" or better ways to vent the breather on a CB500? Mine just has the open hose that goes down behind the engine.
The "better way" was introduced on the CB550.  I don't see why you couldn't fit the filter box onto the earlier model, to make both the machine and all life breather easier.

A breather filter for the end of it?
Does nothing except keep bugs from crawling up the tube into the crankcase of the engine.

Vented back to the air box some how?
That's exactly what the 550 upgraded filter box does.

Leave it as Honda intended?
Not for the informed, enlightened, or environmentally conscious.

A Reed type PCV valve?

PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation.  It applies to engines that have TWO crankcase fittings.  One to supply fresh air (often filtered), and one to provide evacuation of the crankcase gasses and vapors.  A valve is usually placed in the vacuum source path to shut off or restrict ventilation when manifold vacuum is very low.  The systems I am familiar with, tap into manifold vacuum between cylinder and carburetor.

As the SOHC4 only has one Crankcase fitting, the choices are really only venting or Positive Evacuation.  Honda chose Positive Evacuation for almost all the Cb550s.

Simple venting allows the expanding gasses/vapors to escape without building up pressure inside the engine.

Evacuation helps lower the boiling point of water (which helps eliminate condensation buildup faster, helps seal piston rings to lessen blow by, and scrubs both these pollutants and the oil vapors using the high heat combustion chamber of the engine.  It's a win-win for a few extra passive parts.

If you keep to a proper schedule of cleaning/clearing the small foam element that is part of the recirculator assembly, and don't run 649 carbs with the required inlet restrictor pictured below, there is no fouling of the paper filter element in the stock CB550 filter box, (until the element is already clogged with outside dust and needs to be replaced anyway).

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Accolay

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2011, 03:25:11 PM »
TT- Why does the airbox cover seem to always be missing? Did owners do this to improve airflow to the filter? Mine's missing on the 550f, they are unavailable from Honda, and I haven't seen one pop up on ebay.
1977 CB550F

Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2011, 04:48:10 PM »
I don't have a cover - unless you mean the "tool box" with the air screen in it.  If so, I FINALLY got one from Tango (member) after looking for 6 months.  Mine doesn't look like TTs photo above.

  For some reason, I was more excited to get that than any other piece I've found.  It takes very little to amuse me :)
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2011, 06:12:37 PM »
TT- Why does the airbox cover seem to always be missing? Did owners do this to improve airflow to the filter?
Possibly.  There is a lot of junk science out there.  There is certainly more intake noise with cover removed.  Some equate louder with faster.

Mine's missing on the 550f, they are unavailable from Honda, and I haven't seen one pop up on ebay.
The F models and 77-78 550K models had the horn top cover. As below.  Even rarer than the cover are the two tall wing nuts that hold the cover on this type.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2011, 06:19:44 PM »
I don't have a cover - unless you mean the "tool box" with the air screen in it.  If so, I FINALLY got one from Tango (member) after looking for 6 months. 
Yes, that is the filter box top cover, too, as well as the tool tray.  I rather like it when Honda has a single part with dual functions.  ;D


Mine doesn't look like TTs photo above.
\
It's not my photo.  Those were used with 649 Carbs (#78 Mains), in the Netherlands and perhaps Germany.  They weren't for sale in North America.
Not sure of the specific reason.  I suspect it was some sort of local government requirement.  But, I don't know why.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2011, 06:51:32 PM »
Quote
Yes, that is the filter box top cover, too, as well as the tool tray.  I rather like it when Honda has a single part with dual functions. 

I like that too, especially when it means that it's one less missing piece that I have to find :)

I'm just glad I now don't have to stress about the pouch I keep a few tools in, falling down into the filter, causing unknown horror and pain...

.......Ok, so it probably wouldn't have any effect like that at all, but I'm still pumped I found it :)
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

“Success is dependent on effort.”
~Sophocles

Offline dave500

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2011, 03:09:34 AM »
those covers are to reduce induction noise,not just for the public but for the rider,they howl,,and i like it!some dont.

Offline chickenman_26

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2011, 04:13:56 AM »
those covers are to reduce induction noise,not just for the public but for the rider,they howl,,and i like it!some dont.
Funny you should mention that. I used to think the howl was from the mufflers, till I installed a '78 induction system (TT's picture) on my '71. I have to admit, the howl was pretty cool. Sounded like a Ferrari. But the new quietness sure makes a long ride more pleasant. The main reasons I installed it were for the benefits explained by TT. And since I was switching to PD carbs anyway, I just replaced the whole system, from the manifolds to the air filter


Stu

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Offline dave500

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2011, 04:21:52 AM »
i like induction howl chickenman,i have a quadrajet four barrell on my daily driven car!

Offline Accolay

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2011, 06:43:15 AM »
Quote
i like induction howl chickenman,i have a quadrajet four barrell on my daily driven car!

Your daily driver wouldn't happen to be The Last V8 Interceptor, would it?:D
1977 CB550F

Offline chickenman_26

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2011, 07:34:30 AM »
i like induction howl chickenman,i have a quadrajet four barrell on my daily driven car!
Only problem with that is to make it howl, you need to keep your foot to the floor to open the secondaries. I remember owning those cars. I also remember how fast the gas gauge moved when I drove 'em like that. Okay at 35 cents per gallon, but not at today's gas prices, thank you.

Stu
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Offline Trav-i

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2011, 07:53:44 AM »
LLoyd, I have a 78 ss 750, with stock induction.  All of the EGR items are still in place and I have it all hooked up, my question is where does the drain line from the top of the fuel tank go, also where does the carb vent hose hook to?  I've a fair bit of searching and I can't seem to find a good answer or picture.

Any help would be appreciated.

Travis
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73 CB750 Bobber Project (Always an on going project) Sold
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2011, 12:19:04 PM »
LLoyd, I have a 78 ss 750, with stock induction.  All of the EGR items are still in place and I have it all hooked up, my question is where does the drain line from the top of the fuel tank go,
Hello Travis,  For routing see the pic below.  But, be aware, EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation.  The SOHC4s don't do this.  Some do the Crankcase Recirculation.  Honda calls it a breather.

also where does the carb vent hose hook to?  I've a fair bit of searching and I can't seem to find a good answer or picture.
I couldn't find a picture either.  But, on my 750Fs that have the carb vent line, it routes up and back, over the air box then down between swing arm pivot and engine case.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Trav-i

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2011, 01:39:19 PM »
Thanks Lloyd!  I thought they just went to atmosphere but I just wanted to be sure.  And from now on I promise to call it a breather system and not an EGR system! ;)

Oh and by the way, you are the reason I will never run pods again, airbox forever!! ;D

Travis
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I don't know a lot about anything, but I know a little about practically everthing. 

If your not first, your last - Ricky Bobby

1992 GL1500 Interstate

73 CB750 Bobber Project (Always an on going project) Sold
71 CL350 Scrambler Project (Done and riding it) Sold
78 CB750 F3 Super Sport with F 0 engine (Current project)

Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2011, 01:48:14 PM »
I am assuming that it doesn't make much difference on the 550k where I place the down drain hose (as long as it's safe!) since I've made a pinch cap for it??
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

“Success is dependent on effort.”
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2011, 02:11:47 PM »
All the drain/vent tubes end up between engine case and swing arm.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2011, 11:36:58 AM »
Ok, last question, I promise!  Any idea what would make a good filter for inside the breather I just got from Kong?  This would be to place between the brass part that sinks into the recess of the air box (small holes on it) and the part with the tube stack on it that goes into the air filter (has the honey comb look to it).

I was thinking AC type filter material, but having never seen the stock piece, I have no idea what it should be. I don't want to hinder the function of this piece now that I finally have it!!!

Thanks
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

“Success is dependent on effort.”
~Sophocles

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2011, 12:32:57 PM »
Are they not available from Honda?
Western Hills Honda Lists it.
http://www.westernhillshondayamaha.com/fiche_select.asp?mfg=Honda&partnumber=17352-374-003

   ELEMENT (17352-374-003 )    $3.33

Yes, it's just a piece of open cell foam.  But, you know the cell size is correct and that it is fuel/oil resistant.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2011, 12:49:03 PM »
Thanks TT. I Had only looked at bikeBandit. Try are out of returning, and usually too expensive. But the gift certificate keeps me checking there.

Thanks for all your help with this. I'm almost home....
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

“Success is dependent on effort.”
~Sophocles

Offline chickenman_26

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2011, 05:29:15 AM »
Are they not available from Honda?
Western Hills Honda Lists it.
http://www.westernhillshondayamaha.com/fiche_select.asp?mfg=Honda&partnumber=17352-374-003

   ELEMENT (17352-374-003 )    $3.33

Yes, it's just a piece of open cell foam.  But, you know the cell size is correct and that it is fuel/oil resistant.

Cheers,
It's discontinued, TT. I bought a square of UNI filter foam and cut it to fit. They offer 2 densities. I bought the finer one. But thinking about it, the coarser one may have been the better choice.

Stu
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Offline Nortstudio

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2011, 05:31:27 AM »
I just ordered one from that place???  Did you try to order it, and then they told you it was discontinued?  Not sure why it would show in the "add to cart" area if it's not available????
1976 CB550K...in progress
1975 CL360...eventually custom
2009 Husqvarna TE610

a blog about wrenching in Brooklyn, NY

“Success is dependent on effort.”
~Sophocles

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Breather?
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2011, 08:57:23 AM »
It's discontinued, TT. I bought a square of UNI filter foam and cut it to fit. They offer 2 densities. I bought the finer one. But thinking about it, the coarser one may have been the better choice.
If the UNI -NU4055 filter foam is considered coarse, then the element foam is finer.  But, I don't know that it matters, really.

I tried using what looked like similar foam, only to have it deteriorate to pudding in 3-6 months.

I do know the stock one will retain a lot of water in rainy winter months. ;)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.