Author Topic: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?  (Read 1505 times)

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Offline jessezm

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Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« on: September 24, 2010, 05:36:57 AM »
As the topic states, I'm breaking in my 466cc kit on my CB400f.   Took it for its second ride last night and went about 50 miles (75 miles total on the clock).   My buddy was riding behind me so he had a good vantage point, and noted that coming of throttle during engine braking and resting at stoplights I was getting some smoke.  He said it looked like blue smoke but it was dark so it was hard for me to confirm. 

Is this normal during break-in?  Is there anything I ought to be concerned about?  I guess the reason I ask is because I reassembled the top-end myself and am a bit paranoid that maybe I was too hard on one or two of the 3-piece oil rings when putting it all together...

Is there anything I can/should do at this point besides monitor the smoke and oil level?  The bike feels like it's making plenty of power (80mph in 5th gear with a whole lot of throttle and another gear to go).

Thanks

bollingball

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 05:53:05 AM »
I think your are running a little to hard for the time on the motor.I would go 3K to 5K and very the RPM for 25 50 miles then 5K to 6K for another 25 to 50 miles no steady long RPM. That's just the way I do it until I get the rings to seat good. After about 100 to 150 miles change oil & filter then start working it a little harder.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 06:24:35 AM »
If the rings are like a 750 you have to make sure that your oil scraper rings are NOT upside down. Were you aware of that and made sure everything was orientated correctly upon assembly ?

Offline jessezm

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 06:45:12 AM »
If the rings are like a 750 you have to make sure that your oil scraper rings are NOT upside down. Were you aware of that and made sure everything was orientated correctly upon assembly ?

The scraper rings were definitely right-side-up from my recollection...


as for the hard break-in:  I really was torn about which way to go, and don't get me wrong, I'm not flogging it real hard.  First 20 miles were all 3-6k rpm (redline is 10.5), and next 50 miles were 3/4 throttle runs through the gears to about 8k rpm.  I did take it to 9k once or twice for a second.  I've always varied speed and rpm.

Seems to smoke a little when the engine is real warm.

Offline MRieck

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 07:20:44 AM »
Does the head have the exhaust guides with no seals?
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Offline jessezm

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 08:22:03 AM »
Yes it does.  I had the head rebuilt by a machine shop, but the guides, having only 5200 original miles, were in great shape, so we left them in, and reused the stock components (just new intake seals)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 08:46:04 AM »
AS Mike is leaning to, the larger displacement and CR is sucking harder on the exhausts. They may have sealed well with the stock pistons and no seals, and in the early stages of their life.

But now you're asking for more sealing from a guide that is worn and has no seals. The smoke will likely get a little better as you break in. But you may have a chronic smoker on your hands.

FYI: What is likely happening is that a little oil is invading the combustion chamber thru the exhaust guides and then being blown out the pipe. The exhaust valve is open for a moment I believe on the beginning of the intake stroke.   Also, a little compression may be pressurizing your valve cover area, again thru the guides, and blowing some oil out the breathers. Which you'll see in your headlights at night. Not so much in the day.

On a performance bike this is tolerated. On a street bike, less so.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 08:48:33 AM by MCRider »
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 08:48:54 AM »
+1 on the valve guide issue.............you may see some amount of blue smoke for a thousand miles or more depending on how each set of rings seats to the cylinder.........but cold startups, idle, and engine braking will likely show white-blue smoke from valve guide leakage unitil all parts have remarried themselves.  Common on engine rebuilds.....at least on mine!  Be sure to change the oil soon and check the level more often than when the motor was stock.
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Offline jessezm

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 08:51:54 AM »
Thanks for the responses, everyone.  This is very helpful.  I'll just keep an eye on things.

Offline jessezm

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 01:18:33 PM »
Update:  took a ride today and at a stoplight definitely observed smoke coming our of the breather (just have a little pod filter from the auto parts store on it)

Offline MCRider

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 01:43:12 PM »
Update:  took a ride today and at a stoplight definitely observed smoke coming our of the breather (just have a little pod filter from the auto parts store on it)
That could be from the rings not seating in yet. Blowby will pressurize the engine and blow oil smoke out the breather. Fingers crossed.  It its rings that should get better.
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Offline jessezm

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 01:50:57 PM »
fingers definitely crossed...  Guess there's not much else I can do anyhow...

Offline dave500

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2010, 01:51:46 PM »
try and load the engine somewhat during the break in,this forces the rings against the bore and beds them in ,dont let it idle for any periods.,keep out of the higher revs as not much load occurs and the bores can glaze.

Offline jessezm

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Re: Breaking in new top end--is some smoking normal?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 02:05:27 PM »
That's been my game plan so far, will keep it up.  Thanks!