Author Topic: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal  (Read 9883 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« on: September 27, 2010, 08:21:56 am »
The bike has an old vintage 4-into-1 pipe and stock airbox and it looks like, surprise surprise, one of the former owners knew to rejet for the pipe, seems like it's jetted too rich though.  

I bought the bike a week ago and it runs real healthy but not as strong as my instinct told me it should.  The thing that I noticed is sluggish throttle response.

I've re-jetted bikes before (however I'm no expert), and have made mistakes, I've put in mains that were way too small and have personally experienced "lean lurch" --  the surging of an engine when you open the throttle and it's not getting enough gas from the carbs.

This '73 cb750 feels like the opposite, just 'gurgle gurgle gurgle' like overwhelmed with fuel.

So I thoroughly cleaned the plugs, did somewhat of a plug chop, then pulled the plugs and sure enough they are black with soot.

I'm going to yank the carbs and go with smaller main jets.  However, I have not jetted an old cb750 like this bike nor have I worked on Keihin carbs.   While I could start buying smaller mains 4 at a time, buying a bunch of extra jets I don't need would be nice.

I'm not expecting to find the 105 mains and 35 pilots (the stock jets) in these carbs that the manual calls for.  Would not be surprised, by the rich running of the bike, if someone put 120 mains in it.

Any of you guys have a main jet-size recommendation for a stock airbox, all stock motor, and a pretty quiet 'neighbor friendly' 4-into-1 on a '73 cb750, a jetting setup that has worked out pretty well for you or someone you know?  

  

« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 10:40:38 pm by Hondawggie »

Offline TedH

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2010, 08:44:49 am »
How are the charging circuit and battery?  I had a '75 CB750K and found the rectifier was failing and contributed to weak spark.  Weak battery and charging circuit will show down on power also (black, carboned spark plugs).  

With the weak spark, my 'K' bike would spew black smoke from all four of the 4-into-4 mufflers, buck, spit, backfire and essentially run like it was flooded with fuel.  Carb rebuild helped some but it took solving the charging/ignition demons to make it run like it should.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 08:47:09 am by TedH »
Cycle Ownership:
Past:
90cc 2-cycle Rockford (mid-70's)
85 CB450SC Nighthawk
75 CB750K
85 VF1100 Magna
77 CB750F
95 VF750 Magna
76 CB550F
01 FXDXT
80 XS850SG
78 CB550K

Present:
75 CB550F
80 XS850LG

Offline 1974blaze

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 139
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2010, 09:09:52 am »
i have to second the thought above.  i would definitely check out the ignition system, charging, timing et. al. if it is in the ignition and spark is the problem you'll be messing with that carb forever and be very frustrated.  symptoms are quite similar so it's work the look.

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 09:16:51 am »
Just for your future reference the stock slow jet should be a #40 and the stock main should be a #110.  ;)

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 09:18:33 am »
Check your ignition from the points to the plugs first. Sounds like that is your problem.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

KingCustomCycles.com

  • Guest
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 09:19:25 am »
Make sure your needle is in the center position or one notch lower for the open pipe.  Jets for your set-up would run around a 120 but go to the needles first.  Keep us posted, every bike flows differently.  I drill my jets to .051 with open pipes and pod filters.  I have caught some flak for that but what works, works, and it is free with no delivery costs or wait for new jets.

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 09:52:22 am »
Just for your future reference the stock slow jet should be a #40 and the stock main should be a #110.  ;)

Wow man thanks for that.  The fsm I have showing 105 mains and 35 pilots -- what model year would that be for?  I have read/been told that Honda gradually detuned the 750.  Now I'm seriously expecting 120 mains to be found inside.

Yep I thought about the charging circuit/coil/spark.   About a week or so ago I filled it with distilled water then trickle charged the battery the day I got it and have ridden it almost every day for varying amounts of time.  I haven't had to recharge the battery since.  

Just as a check I went out to the driveway just now (it's about 20 hours since I ran it yesterday) and turned on the petcock and she started up immediately.   I don't think the electrics are an issue in this case but you're right, electrics have to be in line or you won't get a consistent burn.

So I just cranked the bike over, it fired right away and I shut it off after about 5-10 seconds.  Then I got to wondering.  I fired it up again, it started right up again, I turned on the choke, it died immediately.

It just seems like the carbs are providing too much gas in pilot and mains.

EDIT:  I'm going to check points gap/timing today but there's a famous shop here in the area and my prior owner just had the bike at this shop that is famous for honda fours work, for new points etc., a tuneup.  I don't know if they told my p.o. about the 'running rich' condition but if they did he wouldn't understand it probably as he is a rider and basically has no mechanical aptitude or awareness, just likes to ride 'em.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 10:01:44 am by Hondawggie »

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 10:10:03 am »
Make sure your needle is in the center position or one notch lower for the open pipe.  Jets for your set-up would run around a 120 but go to the needles first.  Keep us posted, every bike flows differently.  I drill my jets to .051 with open pipes and pod filters.  I have caught some flak for that but what works, works, and it is free with no delivery costs or wait for new jets.


Good advice.  I have a suspicion that I will find the needle in the stock center position.  Here's why, this is my seat-of-the-pants assessment of how the bike responds to throttle

- idle:  fine.  It always returns to idle lickety-split and maintains it.

- pilot (to 1/4 throttle): rich, burbling and gurgling, like a drunk who is gargling half a can of  beer after putting away a 12-pack

- needle:  okay

- main:  I get a consistent stumble/hesitation when transitioning from the needle to the overly-rich main jet, so I suspect the mains were increased but the needle left alone.  The mains are burbling and girgling like a drunken sailor.  The bike has power up there, it is not lean, but just feels like a gluttonous person just finished a 12-course meal trying to eat 10 more double cheeseburgers -- overwhelmed.

So I'm expecting to have to drop the pilot to a smaller size, drop the mains to something smaller (still not sure what to guess at, should I go with a 115 main jet?), and either leave the needle as is or move the clip down one notch (hence raising the needle for midrange).  

I don't yet know if I'll need the needle change.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 10:16:36 am by Hondawggie »

KingCustomCycles.com

  • Guest
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 10:40:03 am »
I would say, move the needle, and you may not need a jet change.  That has been my experience.  Besides, jets are easy to do on the bike, needles are a pain. You want to know where they are before you start with the jets.

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,301
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 10:45:51 am »
dont tune your carbs until you tune the rest of your bike.
(aka - do a 3000mi tuneup)
...then dial in your needles, AF mix, bench/vac sync, etc...then plug chop to see if you really need smaller mains.
 
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mineā€¦"

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 10:46:59 am »
I think it is pretty silly to rejet carbs without knowing your have a brand new air filter on the machine.
In fact, all the other 3000 mile tuneup items should be addressed first. IMO

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: new owner of a '73 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 10:48:31 am »
Listen to the "King" but also make sure you incoroprate a full tune-up first. New plugs,set valves,timing,check points,check air filter,oil change,cam chain,make sure carbs and petcock and tank are clean.Peace of mind knowing those systems are set correctly first then move to carb tuning.Npw off to the Garage with Ya and get busy  ;D  ;D     EDIT-TT beat me to it by a minute or two   ;)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 10:50:14 am by ekpent »

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 10:58:32 pm »
Changed this thread name from '73 to '72 as I accidentally found out from my VIN and engine number that this is a 1972 cb750 K2 bike, and not a K3.

So prior to picking up a '74 750 late this afternoon (stuck motor), I embarked on the 3000 mile tuneup/check as recommended on my '72, and here's what I found.

- air filter looks brand new, use compressed air inside-out on it
- points gaps a tad too narrow, not much though, but dressed the points and opened them
  up a bit anyhoo
- timing is perfect
- valve/tappet clearances a bit too gappy, not much though, but adjusted some of them closer to spec (.05mm intake, .08mm exhaust).  Will finish the remaining tappet checks tomorrow.


This bike doesn't burn oil.  However at stop lites you can smell partly burned gas like it's flooded.  All 4 spark plugs look identical: black soot.

The stuff I found with the valve clearances, timing, points gap, airfilter show nothing major to explain sooty plugs, nor the stumble when the bike transitions from needle to mains.  so more and more it's becoming clear that something is affecting all 4 spark plugs identically, and it's poor jetting.

As if someone (the owner in the past who put on the 4-into-1 perhaps) rejetted across all 4 carbs and made the same incorrect jet choice.  That would explain the consistency of identical-looking sootiness across all 4 plugs, a consistent incorrect and too-large jetting in each carb. 

I discovered that the prior owner (actually, the shop he paid to keep the bike going, he never worked on it) put 1-level hotter plugs in it.

I suspect someone else noticed the rich running condition and decided "hey I'll put hotter plugs in her to burn up that overage"  but that was ineffective.

I was happy to find points/timing/air filter/valves looking pretty close to spec, because the bike does have power, just too much gurgling/burbling, too much gas.  Will probably have the carbs off tomorrow to look at jets.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 11:38:22 pm »
- air filter looks brand new, use compressed air inside-out on it

I think it is pretty silly to rejet carbs without knowing you have a brand new air filter on the machine.

Personally, I've never been able to see the filter pores get smaller with the naked eye.  But, I have seen the effects of an old one making the plugs turn black, even if it "looked" clean.

You have to change them once a year, anyway.  If a new one doesn't show a soot improvement, you can put the old one back in next year.

Or, you can just get a K&N which is cleanable and reusable.

Alternately, you can take the filter out temporarily to see if the plugs get less sooty.  But, I most certainly wouldn't rejet carbs unless the air filter was KNOWN to be as new.

Maybe that's just me.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,975
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 01:06:37 am »
check the plug caps resistance.only fiddle with the carbs once the ignition is spot on.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 01:18:34 am »
Listen to TT- get a new air filter- either a paper element or a K&N and never have to buy a new one again. But buy a new one first.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

KingCustomCycles.com

  • Guest
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 07:22:33 am »
Run it without the filter, problem goes away, it is the filter.  I have never seen a filter make a hill of beans difference, but that's just me.

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,512
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 07:44:32 am »
OK-Now lets make it really fun on those proper jets.Depending on the serial number of your engine, if its a 72, it could be one of several options.Here is a micro fische to get you doing some head scratching. If you get your carbs off look for a model number stamped on them to see maybe if they are early or late. Also pop off that slow jet and look for the original stock Kehin Logo on it.I have seen some "aftermarket" stuff that had HUGE holes in the #40 slow compared to stock-they were junk,mains probably were as bad.

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2010, 08:36:03 am »
OK-Now lets make it really fun on those proper jets.Depending on the serial number of your engine, if its a 72, it could be one of several options.Here is a micro fische to get you doing some head scratching. If you get your carbs off look for a model number stamped on them to see maybe if they are early or late. Also pop off that slow jet and look for the original stock Kehin Logo on it.I have seen some "aftermarket" stuff that had HUGE holes in the #40 slow compared to stock-they were junk,mains probably were as bad.

Hey thanks for that, I will use it.  I think the carbs are coming off today, however prior to that I'll check plug caps and coils, and yep I will remove the air filter and assess the change.  However it's worth pointing out that if the carbs are in fact jetted too rich, introducing a lot more air by removing the filter can give a 'mixed message:' if the plugs clean up after removing the air filter element, it can mean the filter is clogged -or- prove that it's jetted rich (stops running rich due to lots more air coming in)   If introducing more air by removing the filter cleans up the plugs, it is not necessarily conclusive.  But I'm gonna try it.

Pulling carbs and doing an overnight dunk in Berrymans -- well I have four 1-gallon cans of berrymans, I've done enough carb cleans/jetting so it's not a big deal.  The only pain is waiting overnight for the Berryman's to work.

Once I had a Kaw triple that was running too rich.  I pulled the 3 carbs, disassembled, and was expecting to find the carbs jetted too rich (the bike had custom pipes on it and a stock air filter element with the air filter case removed). To my surprised the jets were *all stock* so I was puzzled by the 'running rich' condition.  "How can this thing be running rich with less-restrictive pipes and a ton more air coming in, on stock jettting?"

I put all the carb bits overnight in Berryman's carb cleaner, then reassembled and presto no more 'running rich', it switched to running lean!  That was freaky.  It went from running rich to running lean after the carb clean, no jetting change.  So I bought stock pipes and airbox on ebay and it ran fine after that.  

My guess is that air passages in the carbs in that Kaw triple were blocked cutting off air flow, and dunking the carbs and using 120psi compressed air after the dunking cleaned out the clogged air passages in the carbs.

So it is quite possible here that this 50,000 mile bike has a bit of blockage in the air passages and an overnight dunking in Berryman's then a re-assemble will restore it to running fine.  We shall see.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 08:56:55 am by Hondawggie »

Offline Don R

  • My Sandcast is a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,736
  • Saver of unloved motorcycles.
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2010, 09:25:48 am »
I didn't believe my air filter could be restrictive, it was older but had just a few miles. I got a new identical filter and couldn't tell the difference by looking. However, the bike started running better and I got 15 miles further before reserve. On a 76F 750. Still some work to do but it runs way better. I have a stock F header custom glasspack muffler and stock Honda new needles and jets with a stock airbox, the needles are one notch lean.
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2010, 10:23:09 am »
 However it's worth pointing out that if the carbs are in fact jetted too rich, introducing a lot more air by removing the filter can give a 'mixed message:' if the plugs clean up after removing the air filter element, it can mean the filter is clogged -or- prove that it's jetted rich (stops running rich due to lots more air coming in)   If introducing more air by removing the filter cleans up the plugs, it is not necessarily conclusive.  But I'm gonna try it.

It is a common misconception that the stock air filters limit air flow.  While true, to an extent, at the very high air velocities found at and above red line, if your engine is able to achieve red line, then the air filter is NOT denying air at mid range and certainly not at idle where the air flows are far far less.  The stock Honda filter passes more than enough air volume at red line for the stock engine. (Possibly not above red line, though).
The filter is a membrane.  As such it presents a pressure change across it while air is flowing through it.  A filter with more restriction creates a higher pressure drop across it.  The pressure drop in the carb throats, whether caused by the piston fall, or the venturi effect in carb throats, is further offset by the pressure drop across the air filter.  It is the throat pressure in the carbs relative to the outside ambient pressure that determines the flow rate through a given size fuel jet.  The greater the pressure, the more fuel flows through the jet, even if the exact same amount of air is flowing through the carb throats.

Given the same venturi size and the same engine mechanical efficiency, the filter makes little difference in the VOLUME of air getting to the cylinders (air speeds below red line operation).

The graph below demonstrates how paper filters behave regarding pressure drop across them.
The vertical graph axis is the pressure drop across the filter.  The bottom axis is the number of filter cycles in a closed loop test of the membrane.

The Bottom A line is the base filter pressure differential when no particulates are introduced (or so little as to not effect the pressure drop, as in a way oversize filter cross section).
The B line is where enough particulates are introduced to effect a pressure drop change.  The number of passes through the filter reduces the available air passageways and thus increases the pressure drop across the membrane with each pass of the contaminated air.
Only the A line is assumed for ideal jet size selection.  That way, when a new filter is installed, the jetting is returned to the correct value.

Unless the trapped particulates are day glow or luminescent, you will not see the microscopic particles blocking some of the airways through a paper filter.  Also, you can't see if the paper fibers have sagged/distorted to close up the pores.  And, you will certainly not be able to see what sort of pressure drop across the membrane exists without some instrumentation both before and after the membrane position in the air duct.

Don't feel bad about getting this wrong and buying into the myth vs fact.  Many here have stated that since pod filters require a jet change (bigger) to run well, they make the erroneous assumption that the filters must some how deliver more air to the engine.  This is quite false, as the pod filter only changes the carb throat pressure via a filter membrane change and the shortening of the intake duct tract (raising the pressure closer to atmospheric levels).  This makes the original jets flow less fuel.  They are fooling themselves (and any others that believe the myth), much to the delight of pod filter salesmen and marketeers.

Cheers,









Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2010, 01:55:09 pm »
I adjusted the points gaps to spec, the gaps were too small, I opened them up to spec.  The timing's done, it was already spot-on.  Valve tappet adjustment's done.  Air filter removed and blown out from inside/out with compressed air.  Idle was adjusted.  And the cam chain tensioner was set per the manual.

So this morning I wire-brushed and used compressed air on the 4 formerly-highly-sooty plugs and took her out for a spin.

Well the plugs now look like they are burning more successfully -- the sootiness is reduced.

Keep in mind that I found the prior owner (or more likely his mechanic) put in hotter plugs, D7ES, in this bike for whatever reason.

I just now tried to buy the NGK D8ES stock plugs and found that the newer version of that plug is D8EA and I could not buy then at Napa Auto parts nor at Kragen, had to go to the Yamaha dealer.

Here's the deal, this bike has about the same power feel as before I did the adjustments above.  Yes it feels a little crisper but still not right.  And putting the stock plugs in will not change that much at all.  I think the pilot jet and the low-speed part of the carbs is dirty - to get her going, I have to open the throttle and get revs building more than I think I should.  That has been a consistent issue from the first day I got the bike and hasn't changed.

And all the power is from 3000rpm to 5500rpm then it goes flat.  Granted, there is a noteworthy midrange pull in that zone, but shouldn't this motor pull all the way to redline?

I haven't yanked the carbs yet.  But the mystery of how the carbs are jetted is gonna force me to yank 'em.   As a final series of checks before pulling them to see if/how they are jetted to accomodate the 4-into-1, I'll install the new plugs, but carbs are coming next.

So my question is, and this is the first SOHC cb750 I've ever owned/driven -- shouldn't this motor pull hard above 5500 rpm, or is the midrange I've got simply a given due to the 4-into-1 system, as I'd heard a fatter midrange is a benefit of a 4-into-1 with less power at higher revs?

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,690
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2010, 02:17:37 pm »
These bikes stock have a noted powerband from 4-6K, pretty narrow.

Changing from stock, especially a 4-1 changes this powerband. You have to make changes to jet settings, needle settings and air screws to find the optimal combination- make one change at a time to note results, don't change multiple variables and complain it doesn't work properly.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline Hondawggie

  • Flimmy-Flammy, Hambone-Sammy -- I'm a Bigole
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2010, 04:37:00 pm »
These bikes stock have a noted powerband from 4-6K, pretty narrow.

Changing from stock, especially a 4-1 changes this powerband. You have to make changes to jet settings, needle settings and air screws to find the optimal combination- make one change at a time to note results, don't change multiple variables and complain it doesn't work properly.


Narrow power band as a characteristic of the cb750 -- well that explains it.   

That's pretty much the way I'd describe the way she runs, lots of 'oomph' in the middle, petering out over 6k.


So I wanted to assess the removal of the air filter by installing fresh never-used spark plugs.  So, with the correct spark plugs installed (NGK b8ea), -- and -- the air filter removed -- the bike has a much crisper feel, more responsive to the throttle all over the rev range.

The stock airbox shell is there, I simply removed the air filter element today right after installing the brand-new, correctly gapped NGK B8EA plugs. 

I then pulled and checked the new plugs --  BLACK WITH SOOT.   

And I still smell partially burned gas as stoplights.

The motor is not burning oil -- compression in all 4 bores is 160psi or slightly higher.  And it's not a 'burning oil' smell, it's a distinctive 'too much gas not being burned' smell.

What say you all?  With the 3000-mile adjustments all done, with new plugs, with the air filter out of the picture -- gotta be too richly jetted in my judgment.

KingCustomCycles.com

  • Guest
Re: new owner of a '72 cb750, spark plugs black as coal
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2010, 04:59:01 pm »
Pull the carbs already, you may need to do it 10 times, might as well get started........:-)