Topic: Fun in the shop

[scottly]

I made an actual part on my mill today. So far, I had only used it to make tooling, such as drilling multiple bolt patterns in a tooling plate that I can use on both the rotary table and the lathe. Since the rotary table was still mounted to the mill, I decided it was a good time to duplicate a missing bracket for a set of vintage rear-set mounting plates I have. It was a good test drive of the machine, as well as a good refresher on manual machining for me! Pics attached.. 

[rhos1355]

I LOVE to see this kind of stuff. But then I've never managed to find a course or someone to teach me workshop engineering. I reckon I'd be happy as a a pig in sh*t with one of those machines.
I've decided that as soon as I get the cb750 done and dusted & out of the shed, I'm going to buy me a small lathe to start learning.
What's that I can hear behind me??.............oh it's the wife laughing sarcastically.

[Terry in Australia]

Go for it Rhosy, I'm self taught and after 10 years or so of owning my lathe and mill I've paid for them both several times over making oil cooler adapters and other interesting bike related stuff.

Nowadays machinery from Asia is pretty cheap and reasonable quality, so there's even less reasons why you shouldn't have one. Cheers, Terry.

[rhos1355]

Ter, could you run it off the house electrics or did you have to have industrial rated power?

[Alan F.]

I can see this thread growing and growing.   

Rhos, there are plenty of small machines that'll run of your regular residential power.
It all depends on the size of your workpiece and your budget, most small machines have less power though so consider them carefully against the type of work you might be doing.
Alan

[Terry in Australia]

Well I'm not disagreeing with Al, he's quite right, but Oz has 240V single phase domestic electrics Rhosy (same as Britain, I think?) so as much as 415V three phase would be nice, I don't think it's necessary.

My Chinese thread cutting geared head lathe with 3 foot bed and 17 inch swing will turn anything from plastic to stainless steel, and my Taiwanese Mill/Drill complements it very well. While I'll probably never build my own engine from scratch, I've seen some amazing work done on these cheaper "domestic" machines.

Part of the fun of building something is trying to nut out how you can build it with the machinery that you've got, and you quite often will spend more time making a special drilling jig or adapter plate than you will on the item that you're trying to make, but the sense of achievement (not to mention the fact that it only cost you whatever you paid for the metal that you used) of holding the finished product is a wonderful thing. My first oil cooler adapter cost me over $7500, but the last one I made cost me around 20 bucks. Great stuff. Cheers, Terry.  

[Raef]

"My first oil cooler adapter cost me over $7500"

In that case I once hauled a ton of sand that cost $17,000, my dad couldnt belive I had a ton of sand in a truck that still had the paper tags on it.

You can pick up an old single phase bridgeport for under a 1000, many times you can get the stuff for scrap price and hauling it off. I am picking up a 7.5 hP gas powered air compressor this weekend I got for $40 and it runs

[Terry in Australia]

That's a very good point mate, cheap old machinery is good, but apart from issues with wear and parts availability, over here, most old machinery comes out of factories, so it's 415V 3 phase.

You can get 3 phase run to your workshop here, but it's more expensive to get it installed than it is to buy a new Asian machine. I've got a beautiful used Brobo saw here sitting dormant because I haven't gotten around to getting it converted to run on single phase power, another option. Cheers, Terry.

[scunny]

on the elecy motor it will have a rating either watts or hp and rpm. use google to find a cheap 230v equivalent

[nokrome]

  Thats very cool Scottly, that wouldnt happen to be for a set of dunstalls like this would it?

[scottly]

That's a very good point mate, cheap old machinery is good, but apart from issues with wear and parts availability, over here, most old machinery comes out of factories, so it's 415V 3 phase.

You can get 3 phase run to your workshop here, but it's more expensive to get it installed than it is to buy a new Asian machine. I've got a beautiful used Brobo saw here sitting dormant because I haven't gotten around to getting it converted to run on single phase power, another option. Cheers, Terry.

Same thing here; a lot of the older machines come from factories and have 3 phase motors, but there is no 3 phase power available locally. My friend got a 15 ton punch-press today, with a 1 HP 3 phase motor, for a nice price. With a single phase, capacitor-start motor, he will be good to go. The other alternative is a "phase converter", which allows a single phase source to power a 3 phase motor.
When I was looking to buy a lathe, I finally, after multiple trips to Phoenix 80 miles away, and measuring the wear on the ways and run-outs on the chucks of older machines, decided I was better off buying a new Chinese lathe for only slightly more money. A couple of years ago, I lucked into an old lathe for $300 that was in better shape than ones they were asking $2500 for 12 years ago.  

[MidTNJasonF]

In the US I recommend a nice used Bridgeport knee mill or a close clone like a Lagun. You can run most of them very effectively with a phase converter. If you can find them an old Hardinge lathe. We have a small one that was probably made in the 40's in the shop and it is near bullet proof.

If you can afford to splurge I am a big fan of ProtoTrak mills. We have a 3d and a 2d in the shop that get a ton of use for jig and fixture work. Most of the parts I have made for the bikes were made on one of those two machines. Pretty intuitive conversational programing ability and the newer software controllers can import just about any file type and interpret your geometry. They are a bit spendy on the front end but the ones we have are over a decade old and get used hard.

Here is the most recent parts turned out on my ProtoTrak 2D.

[scottly]

  Thats very cool Scottly, that wouldnt happen to be for a set of dunstalls like this would it?

Very close: these are John Tickle. The plates, levers, and pegs appear to be identical to Dunstall, but the peg rubbers are different. In your pic, it appears your bracket has a chamfered corner, while mine has all 90 degree corners?

[MidTNJasonF]

Not MC related or home shop related but here is a slightly crappy video of a Fadal 4020 ripping up a bit of 6061 T6 on one of my side projects..

right click save as if you will please.

http://www.turnthewheel.com/Photos/firearms/ar/arlowermill.wmv

[scottly]

Not MC related or home shop related but here is a slightly crappy video of a Fadal 4020 ripping up a bit of 6061 T6 on one of my side projects..

Ripping up? I once got to witness a Toyoda machining center eating 3" thick 6061 at an aircraft plant in Long Beach, CA. They were showing off for the executives, and everyone assumed I was supposed to be there. I was actually there installing the new phone system!

[MidTNJasonF]

Ripping up? I once got to witness a Toyoda machining center eating 3" thick 6061 at an aircraft plant in Long Beach, CA. They were showing off for the executives, and everyone assumed I was supposed to be there. I was actually there installing the new phone system!

Well I did say ripping up a little bit of 6061.  I can not get pictures of our horizontal machining centers in action. They are to enclosed and there is too much coolant flooding the area to get a camera going. Those will really sling the chips. I have seen some pretty impressive demonstrations over the years but most just seem to air cut and dance the machine around at the trade shows it seems. It is more fun to see them actually cutting in production in my opinion.

[scottly]

It is truly amazing to see one of these big machines turn a big slab of aluminum into chips. It blew my mind that the finished part was about 5% of the volume of the billet they started with; about 3" x 24" x 30".

[754]

Congrats on getting it all working.. sure is fun to carve out parts for your bike..

[scottly]

My latest project has been to make a spacer plate/centering ring to mount a Yamaha disc, which has the 750 bolt pattern, but a slightly larger center hole, as well as slightly less offset; about .050". The problem was how to hold the part, as well as how to maintain a uniform thickness on the very thin flange, so that the disc would run true.
I started with my tooling plate on the lathe, and did all the critical dimensions. Then I transferred the tooling plate to the rotary table on the mill, drilled the hole pattern, bolted the part to the plate, and cut the OD of the flange with a 3/8" end mill.

[Terry in Australia]

Very nice mate, I did a similar thing years ago for a guy who scored a pair of Barry Sheene's RG500 front discs that he wanted mounted on a Suzuki GS1000S front wheel. Great fun! Cheers, Terry. 

[nokrome]

My latest project has been to make a spacer plate/centering ring to mount a Yamaha disc, which has the 750 bolt pattern, but a slightly larger center hole, as well as slightly less offset; about .050". The problem was how to hold the part, as well as how to maintain a uniform thickness on the very thin flange, so that the disc would run true.
I started with my tooling plate on the lathe, and did all the critical dimensions. Then I transferred the tooling plate to the rotary table on the mill, drilled the hole pattern, bolted the part to the plate, and cut the OD of the flange with a 3/8" end mill.

fun!!
  nice setup!!!

[scottly]

I made a right side spacer. This time I roughed out the blank on the band-saw, and drilled the disc bolt pattern, plus 3 holes to hold the blank on the tooling plate. Basically made the part in the reverse order of the first one.

[Alan F.]

Taking the "make fewer chips" approach always seems to make things simpler doesn't it?
Was it much faster?

[scottly]

Well, the lathe work was much faster, but roughing out the blank on the band-saw took more time than bolting the rectangular plate onto the lathe tooling plate for the first part. One thing I decided is that I need to make another tooling plate, with the same bolt patterns, so one is dedicated to the lathe, and one to the rotary table on the mill. This will save LOTS of set-up time.

[scottly]

Did you know you can cut thick aluminum plate with a common circular saw, fitted with a carbide-tipped blade? I have cut up to 2" thick before. Today I knocked the corners off a square, 1" thick plate so I could fit it onto the lathe to face it off, then carved off more to make it closer to a round shape for turning the OD. 

[754]

Do you have enuf swing to make a triple tree?
 I know a tip that can turn out , set of 3 hole location to within 1/2 thou or better.. without  boring both trees at once..

[FunJimmy]

Nice work Scottly. Shows that there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Aluminum is fantastic to fab parts from as it's almost as easy to work as wood.
I've used bandsaws, tablesaws, drill press fitted with a compound slide table and milling attachment and a lathe to make dozens of parts.
It anodizes beautifully too.

Have fun.

FJ

[FunJimmy]

Do you have enuf swing to make a triple tree?
 I know a tip that can turn out , set of 3 hole location to within 1/2 thou or better.. without  boring both trees at once..

Come on Frank. Don't hold back.

BTW, congrats on the new job. 

[754]

 Jimmy, where you been?, Drop by when you are in town..
 I know, I am an evil influence sometimes..


 Thanks for the congrats..


 To make triple tress accurately, on a faceplate, or a single tree to accurately match existing;

 Search toolmakers buttons, and see what you find, may make more sense than my explanation..
basically, it involves moveable buttons screwed down lightly to holes tapped in work piece on your layout lines. These are then cross-checked with a micrometer, the bumped around to  desired spec, checked with a micrometer. When you are within a thou, or easily better than, lock down the crew holding the button.. recheck. If nothing moved put work on faceplate, the clock in each hole..

[scottly]

OK, I checked out toolmakers buttons; I don't think my lathe is big enough, with a 12" swing. I can understand how they could be used to duplicate a triple, sort of? Keep the tips coming!

[754]

 Make a  slotted angle plate, and mount on cross slide, where toolpost sits (post need to be removed). Then mount the work on  the angle plate, clock it in & clamp. Then use a boring head in the chuck to finish-bore the holes in triple tree.. after drilling..

[scottly]

Ah!!! Use the lathe like a horizontal mill!! I keep thinking of spinning the work, and using a stationary tool with a lathe. Thanks!!

[Alan F.]

Thanks 754, that's an inspiring idea for so many projects.  Since I've got small machinery creative work-arounds are pretty much all that keeps things happening.

[754]

 Hey, there are plenty of ways to carve up a chunk of billet...

 If you need help, just ask..

[scottly]

Frank, tell him how you made the exhaust clamps. Actually, post the pic again and let him guess, like you did before!

[scottly]

We got a new watch "dog" down at the shop... I think we're safe from the bad guys