Topic: Should protective motorcycle clothing be made mandatory?

[Nikkisixx]

This implies we have no choice in what we do, that personal decisions in ones life are no more in control of the outcome of that life then particles in an atom smasher...

Did I ride to Barber with Steven Hawkins?

Always, Illegitimi non carbonum.

Oh contraire!  This implies that regardless of what we chose to do the fates controll our destiny.  Until subatomic particles decide to be in one place at one time, and space and time are no longer relative, it is all just random chance.  It is really just all about gravity 

As for increased legislation, I say:

Sic semper tyrannis!

[Markcb750]

I say that man is not in charge of his fate, when your number is up it is up.

This has specific implications, one of which is;  Personal decisions on your way to your  infinite dirt nap had no impact on when that infinite dirt nap begins...


Just saying:

Mihi est compositum in taberna mori

[HondanutRider]

Interesting discussions. 

One of the basic tenets of public law that I always believed, was that each law should always be established to protect the public from the actions of others.  That means that laws shouldn't protect us from ourselves - we alone should be responsible for that.  But, along that line, since we can't be responsible for the actions of others - laws of society offer compensation and hopefully deterrent to protect us from these actions of others when they might be harmful towards us.

This tenet is obviously the basis for repeal of motorcycle helmets in most US states.  (I applaud that conviction...although I strongly encourage proper riding gear!)  After all, wearing a motorcycle helmet does nothing to protect your actions from harming anyone else in the public - it only protects the wearer of the helmet.  In fact, you could argue that wearing a helmet might make you more dangerous to the public, as with added protection a rider might be more inclined to take risks and thereby pose more danger to others. 

On the other hand, having a law to make motorcycle riders wear eye protection is perfectly logical and supports this tenet.  Without protection for the eyes, on a moving motorcycle there is very much possibility of impaired vision (e.g. tears from the wind stream, flying debris, etc.).  This would pose a potential danger to other motorists on the road, as with impaired or reduced vision a motorcyclist would be more likely to lose control and strike other vehicles.

Unfortunately, lawmakers often neglect to recognize this tenet when enacting laws for the protection of society.

[Terry in Australia]

Well so far, this is a nice, non-political discussion, so that's great.

I read lloyd's reply and apart from the usual 1776 era anti-government stuff, I learned that he's a skilled pilot, something that he values highly obviously, by his point that many people don't have the skills to fly a plane.

I've never tried to fly a plane, but I've parachuted out of a few, and whether I was a "skilled" parachutist, or just a normal parachutist I don't know, but I still managed to damage myself pretty badly hopping out of a Caribou or a C130 with 70 pounds of gear and a rifle or a machinegun hanging off me and now I have government funded physiotherapy twice a week to reduce the hurt.

Due to the nature of military parachuting, protective clothing other than a helmet isn't worn here, so if you "spud in" on your arse or your face you can do some real damage. I got dragged for a couple of hundred yards thru a ditch and over a tarred road in 20 knot winds one day, and ripped the arse out of my pants, and the shoulder out of my shirt, and lost some big patches of skin along the way.

20 knots is around 22 mph, and it hurt. Most of my motorcycle riding is at 60+ mph, and I've seen the damage that coming off a bike and sliding down the road will do to you, and it aint pretty. While I agree that we should have more choice and we shouldn't let the government tell us what to do and what to wear, it wouldn't hurt if they told us what we can't wear, surely? I mean, is anyone here gonna be up in arms if the government says you can't wear shorts, singlets and flip-flops on your daily ride? I wouldn't be, because it's dumb, and like Lloyd, I'm smart. Cheers, Terry.

[ferroussphinx]

funny how ignorant i am when i read your post i thought you were an american however  your in australia  and the silly whimsical thought went thorough my head  what do they need an army for everyone loves australia lol         i salute you takes bravery to sign up and then jump out or off a perfectly good craft

[Retro Rocket]

    LLoyd thinks he's free.......

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

funny how ignorant i am when i read your post i thought you were an american however  your in australia  and the silly whimsical thought went thorough my head  what do they need an army for everyone loves australia lol         i salute you takes bravery to sign up and then jump out or off a perfectly good craft

I wasn't that brave mate, all my fellow "Elite" soldiers (Commando's) had "gung ho" motto's emblazoned on the backs of their para helmets like "Death from above" and "get some", etc. Mine said "Stop pushing mate!".........

[TwoTired]

  LLoyd thinks he's free.......

Mick

... And getting less so with each administration.  The sheeple have spoken!

However, actually I'm inexpensive, not free.

But, what the heck do you know, Mick, being in Oz and all?

 

[BobbyR]

funny how ignorant i am when i read your post i thought you were an american however  your in australia  and the silly whimsical thought went thorough my head  what do they need an army for everyone loves australia lol         i salute you takes bravery to sign up and then jump out or off a perfectly good craft

I wasn't that brave mate, all my fellow "Elite" soldiers (Commando's) had "gung ho" motto's emblazoned on the backs of their para helmets like "Death from above" and "get some", etc. Mine said "Stop pushing mate!".........

Now ya see Terry if you had learned to fly there would no need to jump! The people behind you jump and you meet them on the ground and say something like " ready for another go!"

Lloyd is right, there is a big difference between operating an aircraft and being a Pilot. A good Pilot understands their ship and is aware of what is going on around them. They scan the ground looking for likely spots to put it down in the event something goes wrong. I am a very lucky mediocre motorcyclist.

[FunJimmy]

Lloyd is right, there is a big difference between operating an aircraft and being a Pilot. A good Pilot understands their ship and is aware of what is going on around them. They scan the ground looking for likely spots to put it down in the event something goes wrong. I am a very lucky mediocre motorcyclist.

Does that mean you scan the ground looking for a place to put it down? 

[Retro Rocket]

The sheeple have spoken!

Watch out LLoyd, you will have Hush running in here head first with statements like that...



Freedom is almost a figment of our imaginations, but the word keeps being bandied about just to keep us all keen....

Mick

[BobbyR]

Lloyd is right, there is a big difference between operating an aircraft and being a Pilot. A good Pilot understands their ship and is aware of what is going on around them. They scan the ground looking for likely spots to put it down in the event something goes wrong. I am a very lucky mediocre motorcyclist.

Does that mean you scan the ground looking for a place to put it down? 

Actually I don't exactly look for places to put my bike down. I do look for places that would allow me to swerve around dangers rather than rely solely on brakes. Being mediocre means you have to be more cautious.

[ofreen]

Freedom is almost a figment of our imaginations, but the word keeps being bandied about just to keep us all keen....

A better word than freedom for what we are talking about is liberty.

[Damfino]

Armor plated codpiece's for everyone!!

[Markcb750]

Armor plated codpiece's for everyone!!

you can wear that on your junk, I'm going commando.

[demon78]

That's my point Bobby only I wasn't mediocre but yes I always looked for a way out, (if that person does that whats my escape, if I drop it who's behind me, I can see that drivers eyes and he knows I'm here but his wheel is moving what's the solution) always. As far as Terry goes I thought the word's on the helmet were shovel and cross in pack in red.
Bill the demon.

[ferroussphinx]

funny how ignorant i am when i read your post i thought you were an american however  your in australia  and the silly whimsical thought went thorough my head  what do they need an army for everyone loves australia lol         i salute you takes bravery to sign up and then jump out or off a perfectly good craft

I wasn't that brave mate, all my fellow "Elite" soldiers (Commando's) had "gung ho" motto's emblazoned on the backs of their para helmets like "Death from above" and "get some", etc. Mine said "Stop pushing mate!".........

good stuff   rolliking funny    my wife and i still would like to know if you aussies  sound like crocodile dundee   (sorry) but its true

[ofreen]

Here in Victoria we've had an almost 50% increase in motorcycle rider deaths this year. Interestingly enough, the main contributors to our road toll haven't been the expected 18-25 year old age group, but rather, the 50+ year old "born again biker" set.  (snip)

(snip)While I agree that we should have more choice and we shouldn't let the government tell us what to do and what to wear, it wouldn't hurt if they told us what we can't wear, surely? I mean, is anyone here gonna be up in arms if the government says you can't wear shorts, singlets and flip-flops on your daily ride? I wouldn't be, because it's dumb, and like Lloyd, I'm smart. Cheers, Terry.

Going back to your original post, I have to wonder.  How many of the 50 year old 'born again bikers' are dying because they are riding with shorts and flipflops?  You'd like to see a law passed, but is it really going to solve the problem put forth in your first post? 

The same trend has been occurring here in the USA for the past few years.  Old farts are either getting back into riding after decades away from it or taking it up for the first time because it is cool to dress up like a pirate.  Their skills aren't up to snuff.  The bikes they choose to ride are heavy and aren't the best handling.  Riding from one drinking establishment to another is a popular past time.  All civil liberty questions aside, I can't see how the government telling people they can't wear shorts when riding is going to put a dent into the problem stated in your first post.

[andy750]

Going back to your original post, I have to wonder.  How many of the 50 year old 'born again bikers' are dying because they are riding with shorts and flipflops?  You'd like to see a law passed, but is it really going to solve the problem put forth in your first post? 

The same trend has been occurring here in the USA for the past few years.  Old farts are either getting back into riding after decades away from it or taking it up for the first time because it is cool to dress up like a pirate.  Their skills aren't up to snuff.  The bikes they choose to ride are heavy and aren't the best handling.  Riding from one drinking establishment to another is a popular past time.  All civil liberty questions aside, I can't see how the government telling people they can't wear shorts when riding is going to put a dent into the problem stated in your first post.

+1. Well said Greg.

[Skunk Stripe]

Thats why I would like to see better testing in place. Another factor for these "old farts" is that many of them get massive bikes. "1200cc? pfft, that kids play!" So you got older riders with potentially slower reflexes, on a massive bike, combined with rusty or little to no skill.

[seaweb11]

Oh sure, Old guy bashing now

[Markcb750]

I'm showing how mature I am by letting the old guy comments go.

 

[Stev-o]

Oh sure, Old guy bashing now

I'm offended too!

[Retro Rocket]

Thats why I would like to see better testing in place. Another factor for these "old farts" is that many of them get massive bikes. "1200cc? pfft, that kids play!" So you got older riders with potentially slower reflexes, on a massive bike, combined with rusty or little to no skill.

Wanna race.?     

Mick

[Retro Rocket]

funny how ignorant i am when i read your post i thought you were an american however  your in australia  and the silly whimsical thought went thorough my head  what do they need an army for everyone loves australia lol         i salute you takes bravery to sign up and then jump out or off a perfectly good craft

I wasn't that brave mate, all my fellow "Elite" soldiers (Commando's) had "gung ho" motto's emblazoned on the backs of their para helmets like "Death from above" and "get some", etc. Mine said "Stop pushing mate!".........

good stuff   rolliking funny    my wife and i still would like to know if you aussies  sound like crocodile dundee   (sorry) but its true

Do you lot all talk like redneck southern folk, {you know, like Cletis}.......You need to get out more often....

Mick