Author Topic: power arc ignition?  (Read 9267 times)

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Offline DYSKORD

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power arc ignition?
« on: October 24, 2010, 11:08:18 PM »
Does anybody have any experience with the power arc ignition from cyclex? Any opinions on the best electronic ignition?

Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 11:33:36 PM »
Any opinions on the best electronic ignition?
You are opening a can of worms here, but since you asked for opinions.. IMHO, the best electronic ignition ever offered for an SOHC was the Gerex, a multiple-spark system that retained the stock mechanical advance. It was claimed by some guy named Russ Collins that it was one of the only ignition systems that actually increased horsepower, but I never saw any hard data to back that claim up. Mine has worked very well for over 30 years now... BTW, good luck finding one these days!!!
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 11:39:56 PM »
Wasn't the Gerex a true CDI system?

I would like to have one of those.  But, those are so old, I expect the caps would need to be replaced by now.
Any idea if those caps are easily replace-able?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 11:53:33 PM »
I've never had to try to take it apart, but I suspect it is a non-serviceable unit, potted in epoxy. I can tell it has an inverter, due to the high-pitched whine when the power is turned on. I have found very little specific info on the Gerex, and would appreciate any input. I can say that it is truly a "set it and forget it" system, at least in my experience. 
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Offline mick7504

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2010, 03:23:34 AM »
Here's a PDF from Axl about the Gerex.
It may be of some interest.
Gerex - About 1/2 way down.
http://www.satanicmechanic.de/download/
On some of the Kawasaki forums there is also some info in relation to the CDI and the CIS Gerex.
http://kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=116&func=view&catid=4&id=183884
Some photos and info here referring to the Kawasaki application.
http://www.velvetone.com/forsale/gerex.html
Does anybody have any experience with the power arc ignition from cyclex? Any opinions on the best electronic ignition?
Getting back to your original post mate, I think that it is a matter of preference, but the Dyna S or Dyna 2000 has been tried and tested with and without failures.
Mick
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 03:52:55 AM by mick7504 »
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Offline Cqyqte

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2010, 05:23:40 PM »
Does anybody have any experience with the power arc ignition from cyclex? Any opinions on the best electronic ignition?
I have a Power Arc Ignition from CycleX on my 1975 CB750 with 849cc pistons.  I have run it all summer and finally have it set up the way I like it.  I have the advance curves selectable and controlled by a VOES.  The switch is a 5 inch Hg switch and provides the needed retard capability for high load situations.

I run using the second advance curve when the advance kicks in and the the stock advance curve under high loads.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 07:16:10 AM by Cqyqte »

Offline mick7504

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 06:09:15 PM »
Does anybody have any experience with the power arc ignition from cyclex? Any opinions on the best electronic ignition?
I have a Power Arc Ignition from CycleX on my 1975 CB750 with 849cc pistons.  I have run it all summer and finally have it set up the way I like it.  I have the advance curves selectable and controlled by a VOES.  The switch is a 5 inch Hg switch and provides the needed retard capability for high load situations.

I run using the second advance curve when the advance kicks in and the the stock advance curve under high loads.


Love your bike mate.
Mick
If I was you
I'd be worried about me.

Offline Gaither

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2010, 08:48:23 PM »
Dyskord

First, I know nothing and I HATE WIRING!

However, FWIW, I'm very pleased with my Hondaman Electronic Ignition.

I actually installed it myself! If I can do it, ANYBODY can do it!

May we all ride safely, with a wide grin!
Gaither ('77 CB550F)

Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2010, 09:35:24 PM »
Thanks for the links, Mick. I had already seen the PDF on Axl's site, but I did gain some knowledge from the Kawi sites, particularly about the Gerex coils.
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Offline MilehighCB

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 09:42:47 PM »
I have one. 
There have been some good results, and others not so much.  I have had not so much when it over heats, but excellent the rest of the time.

I am not sure I would buy it again, as there are other options out there that may be better or at least the same, for less money without a potential over heating issues.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 10:09:15 PM »
Wasn't the Gerex a true CDI system?

I would like to have one of those.  But, those are so old, I expect the caps would need to be replaced by now.
Any idea if those caps are easily replace-able?

Cheers,

Boys,

I am sitting on a new Gerex Series II with it's full information. How can I assist you? That info on Axl's site is from my system. (That and the Yoshi Daytona cam info I contributed to his site dated 10/12/2008)

TT, What caps are you referring to? I do not have any info on coils however.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:37:20 PM by Jerry Rxman Griffin »
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 10:32:11 PM »
[quote author=Jerry Rxman Griffin link=topic=78861.msg880599#msg880599

Boys,

I am sitting on a new Gerex Series II with it's full information. How can I assist you?

[/quote]
Please share!! Do you have more than the installation instructions on Axl's site?? What is the primary resistance of the Gerex coils? On the Kawi link Mick provided, I saw .63 and 1.2 ohm mentioned. 
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 10:47:17 PM »
Scottly,

I updated my post as you were posting. Sorry but no coil info, just the ignition. I do have the rotor installation instructions and parts still sealed up in plastic, as well as the sensor plate still sealed. The kit includes a mounting bracket which is mentioned on the instructions you see from Axl's site. My "ignitor box" is hand inscribed with 580W and 5-83. As you can see the info does not mention using their coils, just coils.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 11:00:41 PM »
Scottly,

I updated my post as you were posting. Sorry but no coil info, just the ignition. I do have the rotor installation instructions and parts still sealed up in plastic, as well as the sensor plate still sealed. The kit includes a mounting bracket which is mentioned on the instructions you see from Axl's site. My "ignitor box" is hand inscribed with 580W and 5-83. As you can see the info does not mention using their coils, just coils.
Thanks Jerry. I'm wondering if I have a series II or maybe an earlier model; how do you tell the difference? Physical size of the electronics box? Also, where did you find the inscriptions? I'll give mine a good look tomorrow..
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Offline mick7504

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 11:03:19 PM »
Here is an old post that I came across while trying to satisfy my curiosity.
There maybe a some clues here.
Hope it helps.
Mick
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=10137.0
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Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2010, 11:19:40 PM »
Thanks again, Mick.
Jerry, I can say, from experience, that the Gerex will work fine with stock Honda coils.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 12:04:10 AM »
TT, What caps are you referring to? I do not have any info on coils however.
If indeed the Gerex is a CDI system (Capacitive Discharge Ignition), it has to have capacitors.  These are usually electrolytic and they degrade/become resistive with time.  They become resistant to being charged and then quickly bleed off their charge, leading to poor spark voltage.

CDI's change 12V from the battery and with an oscillator, a capacitor, and a transformer, turn that 12V into 300 or more volts.  Feeding 300V pules into the primary of the spark coils produces far more voltage at the coil's output than the standard 12V input on the primary of standard coils.  The coils make a spark voltage relative to a turns/ratio.  If 12V made 12000 V spark before.  That would be a 1 to 1000 ratio.   In theory, the same coil would then produce 300,000 V when fed 300V on its primary.   The actual gain is not that large, due to various physical factors of coil design.  But, getting spark voltages of 30,000-40,000 from coils that previously made only 12,000 was not uncommon.  CDI coil output voltages approach those of todays modern High energy ignition systems. 
CDI's normally provide several 300V pulses to the coil primary during each spark event (multifire).  This allows big gaps at the spark plug even when the compression in raised.  Very good for power and MPG, as well a spark plug longevity.

The downside to CDI's is the quality of the electrolytic capacitors.  In the 70's, Electrolytic caps of good quality were very expensive.  Cheaper ones worked, but they did not stay good over long time periods.  It was usually worse when the caps sat without a charge on them, disused.

Cheers,






Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2010, 08:43:04 AM »
Guys,

We are hijacking DYSKORD's post. Can the Gerex stuff be removed from this post and moved to a seperate "Gerex" post? Perhaps to Mick's link?

TT, I now realize caps = capacitors. Thanks for that detailed info! Here's some "new" caps  ;)

Scottly, pix to follow. From TT's explanation and your info I would say it be best to actually use stock coils. Looks like the new mystery is now "Series II" vs what?

Mick, great link.










« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 08:45:19 AM by Jerry Rxman Griffin »
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2010, 09:16:00 AM »
From TT's explanation and your info I would say it be best to actually use stock coils. Looks like the new mystery is now "Series II" vs what?

While CDI can make an ignition benefit using the stock coils, the stock coils may not have ideal impedance for the CDI driver(s).
Therefore, "Best" would be to use the coils that Gerex recommends for the unit, whatever that is.

Reason; some coil designs may quash certain frequency components of the driving signal, which therefore could not be boosted at the output.   You could get a higher output voltage with properly matched coils, than with the stock coil.

(based on what understanding and info I have at this point.  An enclosed box reveals little detail.)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline DYSKORD

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2010, 01:25:29 PM »
Hijacking, schmojacking. No worries here. My 2-3 timing mark jumps all over the place and is not affected by movement of corresponding adjusting plate when being timed. I am tired of messing with the points so an electronic ignition will be purchased very soon. Dyna S seems to be the way to go but I thought I would ask about the cyclex. Learning about the Gerex is good to though however I dont think it poses a reasonable solution to my timing problem. Carry on gentleman.

Offline scottly

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2010, 06:51:55 PM »
Guys,

We are hijacking DYSKORD's post. Can the Gerex stuff be removed from this post and moved to a seperate "Gerex" post? Perhaps to Mick's link?
I agree. It would be good to keep all the Gerex info in one place.

DYSKORD, you may also want to take a look at pamcopete's system, in the for sale section..
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 06:54:33 PM by scottly »
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Offline KB02

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 03:58:50 AM »
Does anybody have any experience with the power arc ignition from cyclex? Any opinions on the best electronic ignition?
I have a Power Arc Ignition from CycleX on my 1975 CB750 with 849cc pistons.  I have run it all summer and finally have it set up the way I like it.  I have the advance curves selectable and controlled by a VOES.  The switch is a 5 inch Hg switch and provides the needed retard capability for high load situations.

I run using the second advance curve when the advance kicks in and the the stock advance curve under high loads.



DO you have a post describing how you did that?
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
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Offline Cqyqte

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2010, 04:46:33 AM »
No but if you like I can describe how I did it and post something up or email you.

Offline KB02

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Re: power arc ignition?
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2010, 04:29:08 AM »
Got the e-mail. Thanks!
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

Join the AMA today!!

My project thread Part I: K8 Project "Parts Bike"
My project thread Part II: Finishing (yeah, right) touches on Project "Parts Bike"