Topic: Roadracing Panther Framed CB750

[kos]

 To me, a confirmed 750 Honda addict, nothing could be cooler than those BIG GRIZZLY bikes (and I thought I liked stock restorations until I took 1 look at these beasts). Kinda flew under the radar (how many of us have heard about them?) but musta really flew around the tracks! A quick check of AHRMA records shows 1st place for the Formula 750 National Series in 1996, 1997, and 1999 and included wins at superspeedway Talladega (which must've been a stupid-fast track). It had one of the very first Yoshimura built motors originating out of Wiggy's Honda in New Jersey 1971, and Randy Carrabelli was there.
Wonder what the motor cc's were? And what choice parts were used in these East Coast hot rods? I see a Yosh pipe on the #1 bike, and factory CR open megaphone pipes on the Panther framed restored bike, along w/ a Lockheed caliper and master at the rear.
  I got me a new desktop on my computer of that recent pic of the Panther framed machine

Just to clarify; 1998 & 1999 AHRMA National F750 Championship was by won by Adam Popp on M3 Racing CR750 Honda

[Lil Grizz]

Good to see you're still around Mark. Been about 10 years since we've seen each other, think it was NC, or Talladaga the last time we were face to face. Dad had just gotten out of heart surgery.

We did in fact win the 1999 Progressive Suspension Historic Cup Series. We actually took first in both Formula 750 and Formula Vintage. Got almost 2000 points over you that year.

http://www.ahrma.org/results/1999/rrpoints2.htm

[736cc]

Wish I coulda seen and heard M3 vs Big Grizzly go at it!

[Trav-i]

Good to meet ya Marc.  There seems to be quite a few Honda nuts here in the Northeast Georgia area.  My brother-in-law and myself are in Gainesville.  And I've met some other forum members from Lawernceville and Braselton too.  If you ever need a hand just give a shout.

[bear]

Sorry to hear of your lose Marc.
To win any National Title is a great achievement.
They never come easy.
Your obviously very proud of him and so you should be.

Cheers,
Brian

[Sam Green Racing]

How about some more pics Marc, the children on here like pictures. and me to.

Sam.

[Lil Grizz]

I tried to start a gallery but I got an error during registering. Can you help me out there?

How about some more pics Marc, the children on here like pictures. and me to.

Sam.

[Sam Green Racing]

  is that your father on the colour pics /

Sam.

[Lil Grizz]

is that your father on the colour pics /

Sam.

The two color pics are Will Harding, the B/W are John Fuchs.
Marc

[Sam Green Racing]

All good action shots, you'll have to look real hard to find any pics of me going round corners.

Sam.

[bear]

All good action shots, you'll have to look real hard to find any pics of me going round corners.

Sam.

Those hill climbs must have freaked you out then.

Cheers,
Brian

[kos]

Good to see you're still around Mark. Been about 10 years since we've seen each other, think it was NC, or Talladaga the last time we were face to face. Dad had just gotten out of heart surgery.

We did in fact win the 1999 Progressive Suspension Historic Cup Series. We actually took first in both Formula 750 and Formula Vintage. Got almost 2000 points over you that year.

http://www.ahrma.org/results/1999/rrpoints2.htm

The totals on AHRMA page do not tell you the championship winner, As you have to throw out so many races in the AHRMA points format. We were the F750 champions that year and we have the trophy the case here to prove it.

Sorry, we never were headed... the two years Adam went after F750 classes  98-99.

KOS

[Sam Green Racing]

All good action shots, you'll have to look real hard to find any pics of me going round corners.

Sam.

Those hill climbs must have freaked you out then.

Cheers,
Brian

Brian, I didn't say I don't like going round corners, just the pics are hard to come by.

Sam.

[Lil Grizz]

Here is a picture of the stripped down custom frame. I'd like to find out who actually made it.

[736cc]

Does it have serial numbers, which would be a big clue. Maybe instead of it being a custom-made frame, perhaps its a transplanted production frame from a factory racebike w/ dual shocks and modified the engine mounts (ie: RG500 or TZ700)?

[Lil Grizz]

Does it have serial numbers, which would be a big clue. Maybe instead of it being a custom-made frame, perhaps its a transplanted production frame from a factory racebike w/ dual shocks and modified the engine mounts (ie: RG500 or TZ700)?

No visible serials that I have ever seen, certainly not in the usual places.

[736cc]

I believe this is a Rob North SOPER CB. Similiar but not the same frame as Big Grizzly.

[736cc]

[Haggis]

After looking at the above Rob North framed bike and thinking how much it looked just like one of the BSA/Tri Triples, had a google and thers a bit about them in here http://www.satanicmechanic.org/north.shtml  sorry if its a bit off topic but thought it would be of interest

[Tintop]

Put in a call to Denis Curtis to see what he might know about the frame.  Will post his reply when I hear back.

[Tintop]

So I had a nice natter with Denis Curtis regarding what has been mentioned in this thread.

A little history re Panther.  Led Cmek was a mechanic who worked for Denis in Vancouver, starting in 1972.  In 77/78 Denis sold his business to Led, and he renamed it Panther.  He was going to call it Greyhound, and use the Greyhound bus logo, but was informed of the possible legal issues, so used Panther.  Led got from Denis all of his fixtures and jigs.  Panther's primary business was flat track frames, based on Denis's improved version of the Champion frame.  The only 750 frame Panther produced was a continuation of the mono shock frame Denis originally built for Robbie Mieklejohn.  There are pictures of this very frame in my Speed Pony thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74854.0.  Denis is absolutely certain Led never built any twin shock frames for the 750.  So the Curtis / Cmek / Panther connection to this frame, is very tenuous at best.

As for the Rob North connection.  Denis knew Rob in England, and continued to contact him after Denis emigrated to Canada, and Rob North to the US.  Denis stated that Rob North's only interest was in British engines, primarily the BSA triple.  He also said that when Rob's company went under in England he, to put it politely, sought solice in the bottle.  This continued after he emigrated, and he produced very few frames once there.  Those that he did build, were also for the same engines.  Denis is absolutely certain he never built any specifically for the 750.  He also said that if the frame is a Rob North, then it is one of his BSA frames converted to take the 750.

Given all this, if the frame is a Rob North, and Panther was involved, then the best explanation is that it is a BSA triple frame that was converted by Panther for the 750.

On another note for KOS, and other CR750 interested parties.  Denis told me that there is a real CR750 (not a kit bike) here in Canada.  The bike's provenance is iron clad.  I'm have the owners #, and if possible will try to go see it, and take pictures.  When I don't know.  However, if there is something in particular someone wants shots of, let me know.  I'm also certain that KOS knows the bike I am speaking about.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Cool,keep us posted.Thanks,Bill

[Sam Green Racing]

So I had a nice natter with Denis Curtis regarding what has been mentioned in this thread.

A little history re Panther.  Led Cmek was a mechanic who worked for Denis in Vancouver, starting in 1972.  In 77/78 Denis sold his business to Led, and he renamed it Panther.  He was going to call it Greyhound, and use the Greyhound bus logo, but was informed of the possible legal issues, so used Panther.  Led got from Denis all of his fixtures and jigs.  Panther's primary business was flat track frames, based on Denis's improved version of the Champion frame.  The only 750 frame Panther produced was a continuation of the mono shock frame Denis originally built for Robbie Mieklejohn.  There are pictures of this very frame in my Speed Pony thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74854.0.  Denis is absolutely certain Led never built any twin shock frames for the 750.  So the Curtis / Cmek / Panther connection to this frame, is very tenuous at best.

As for the Rob North connection.  Denis knew Rob in England, and continued to contact him after Denis emigrated to Canada, and Rob North to the US.  Denis stated that Rob North's only interest was in British engines, primarily the BSA triple.  He also said that when Rob's company went under in England he, to put it politely, sought solice in the bottle.  This continued after he emigrated, and he produced very few frames once there.  Those that he did build, were also for the same engines.  Denis is absolutely certain he never built any specifically for the 750.  He also said that if the frame is a Rob North, then it is one of his BSA frames converted to take the 750.

Given all this, if the frame is a Rob North, and Panther was involved, then the best explanation is that it is a BSA triple frame that was converted by Panther for the 750.

On another note for KOS, and other CR750 interested parties.  Denis told me that there is a real CR750 (not a kit bike) here in Canada.  The bike's provenance is iron clad.  I'm have the owners #, and if possible will try to go see it, and take pictures.  When I don't know.  However, if there is something in particular someone wants shots of, let me know.  I'm also certain that KOS knows the bike I am speaking about.

Dose the Canadian CR750 belong to this guy, I did hear there is one lurking in his museum.

http://www.hondacentre.com/gallery2.html

Sam.

[Tintop]

In a word Sam - no.  It is located about a 1 1/2 / 2  hour drive from my place (I'm just north of Toronto) I wish I could provide all the details at this time.  However, I was given the # on the promise that I would not.  Should the owner change that stipulation, this will be the 1st place I will start blabbing.

It's not a huge secret, he just doesn't want to be bothered fending off requests to sell it.  It is one of the original factory bikes, and came from Japan.  He also had a kit CR (might have been a replica) which was sold.  It was involved in a terrible accident in the new owner's 1st race.  I didn't learn what happened to it after that.  Maybe that is the one in the museum.

The Westwood photos are very interesting.  That was Denis' home track, and they are from the period he was there.  I will send him the link, as I'm sure he can provide details of who & what are in them.

Brian

[bwaller]

I happened to race at Westwood when all these guys were still around and I can tell you the Frankie & Stevie show was fun to watch. I was poor and in this company, not talented.   That was a great track by the way and fell victim to urban sprawl. It's unbelievable to me because the track was secluded in the forest still in the mid seventies.

It was great to see those pics Sam. I wish I still had some of my picture stuff to share here, but alas, long gone.

As to the CR bike T-Top, I'm fairly certain I saw its near destruction in a crash at Mosport at the top of turn 2, in a classic battle with one Todd Henning. Of course I can't be sure this is the same bike of which you speak...... That bike went to pieces in a high speed get-off and in the pits after it looked to me the steering head was bent in the crash. I have been wrong before however.    

That race was very hard on the 750 Hondas. I could have probably bought Kurt Leibmanns bike fairly cheap at the end of it. His engine dropped a valve (the second time in as many races) and he wasn't a happy guy. I felt like his shrink listening to him vent, poor guy.


I'll be interested to see if you're able to let us know for sure who the owner is.


Edit; I'm guilty of bad memory and sinced remembered a discussion with KOS about the bike I mentioned so it may well be a different bike.