Author Topic: CB500 front end wobble  (Read 5570 times)

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Offline Scott S

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CB500 front end wobble
« on: October 24, 2010, 11:52:33 AM »
 I've got a slight wobble on the front and of my CB500. It's not a "tank slapper", by far...but it's there. Just the slightest pressure of my hands on the controls stops it. It actually seems to go away or get better at highway speeds.

 -I swapped out the top triple tree (to replace your standard  broken clamp) and inspected and greased the top bearings while I was in there.

 -The front tire is new and has been balanced (could still be out of balance, I guess).

 -I changed the fork oil, but they have a slight weep, so I'll be doing seals this Winter.

 -Wheel bearings and steering head bearings all pass the "feel" test. All are probably old, though.

 What should I inspect/attack to get rid of the wobble? The fact that it changes at higher speeds suggests a wheel balance problem, no?
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 12:12:04 PM »
I'd suspect the wheel balance since you've mentioned a new front tire. Does the tire seat well on the rim?
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Offline nancy

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 12:43:55 PM »
D'ya knpw what it did BEFORE the new tyre? Was the new tyre an attempt at stopping the wobble?
Is it a standard size tyre?
Was a new tube put in?
What tred pattern on this tyre?

Offline Scott S

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 01:08:40 PM »
 As far as I know, the bead is seated on the rim. I had it professionally installed.

 I never rode the bike before this new tire. I pulled it out of a barn and the old tires were rotten.

 The tire and tube are new. It's a 100-90/90, the modern size for a stock tire. Tread pattern? Just your standard street tire.
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Offline spot45

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 01:18:54 PM »
What about your rear tire?  If your rear tire is not balanced then you will have a wobble.  What is the condition of your rims?

Offline steam-powered man

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 01:27:00 PM »
if the new tire was balanced on a stand and not high speed spin-balanced, the tire and/or rim still might not be true.  easy to check.  with the tire off the ground, position a screwdriver or such adjacent to the rim and spin the tire.  you can check up/down and side-to-side trueness this way, target is +/- 1mm.  you may see a little wave where the rim was welded.     
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Offline Scott S

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 01:56:30 PM »
What about your rear tire?  If your rear tire is not balanced then you will have a wobble.  What is the condition of your rims?

 There are some marks on the rear rim, like maybe the chain hit it at one time. The shop that installed the tires didn't mention having any problems with mounting or balancing.

 I'll try to see if I can spot any obvious run-out. I had planned on having the front wheel re-balanced when I did the fork seals. Think it's worth having the rear looked at, too?
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Offline spot45

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 03:05:29 PM »
If you do not have both wheels looked at and correctly balanced not only will you have always have a wobble, you may as well put a down payment on cemetary plot.   When you replace tires on a bike you do them two at a time front and rear.  Yes I do know there are sometimes cost constraints.  But unless you have a new rear and have it balanced you are risking your life out on the road.

Offline Scott S

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 03:26:58 PM »
 Maybe I should clarify: BOTH the front and rear tires/tubes are new. Less than 1,000 miles on them since I had them mounted and balanced. They were both installed at the same time.
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Offline haill

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 08:10:49 PM »
had or have this condition on my 71 500 which has changed in degree of severity from the time first got it on the road last year to this day.
first off your tyre is not stock at 100/90/19  should be 90/90/19 front which is closer to stock.
in my case, the tyre was not mounted/seated correctly which larger tyres cause from pinching in on the stock thin rims.
this was corrected  by the shop that mounted it, this helped for have the 100/90/19 myself which feel is too big for the rim.
next replaced the rear swingarm bushings with bronze style and checked the true of the rims front and rear, which found to be quite out which helped as well.
have replaced rear shocks with new Ikons on the rear and rebuilt the front end. increased fork spring tension and rebuilt front forks, played with fork oil height ect, this helped tremendously as well.
for me  still have a slight head wobble at around 40km but disapperars at higher speeds, which  think is due to old rims that won't true perfectly anymore.
Will change out the  stock headstock bearings for tapered and change the front tyre to a 90/90/19 this winter . Would like to get new rims as well, money and time...
My point being all the parts are connected in subtle ways, each having effect on one another and seemingly not one thing fixes the handling woes of a 40 year old bike.
It all could be very simple and just be a badly seated tyre or warped rims, but found with mine it's just age of the machine.  Going through and replacing worn parts and correcting flaws is slowly making it a well handling motorcycle.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:14:34 AM by haill »

Offline dave500

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 11:10:28 PM »
an obvious thing is the front tyre pressure so i wont even mention it... DOH!,but the tapered bearings can cure it,i had the same or similar,i couldnt take both hands off the bars with out it shaking a little,new tapered bearings cured it.,even though the loose ones felt ok .

Offline Kong

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 03:11:05 PM »
A not so obvious thing you might want to look for is front/rear wheel alignment.  Although the wheels do not have to track on the same line (some bikes don't) they must track parallel to each other.  This is generic to all bikes but don't trust the notches on the swing-arm for your rear wheel alignment.  Get to long straight edges and hold them, one to each side, to the rear tire such that they extend beyond the front wheel.  We use long aluminum L channel section bought at Lowe's held in place with surgical tubing.  Then you go measure the distance between your straight edges where they pass the rear and front of the Front Wheel's rim.  Adjust the rear wheel so that the distances, fore and aft, are the same for each sides, and for all four sides if the wheels track on the same line?  Does that make sense?  If the wheels do not track on the same line then just make sure that both fore and aft measurements are equal on the left side, then go over and see that they are equal on the right side - but both sides do not have to be the same - on most bikes they should be, but on some bikes they are not.

At any rate if they don't track on the same line you will get a stead state pulse sort of wobble when turning one way and generally nothing odd when turning the other way.  In neither case will it be a real tank-slapper; once you've experienced one of those its a hard thing to forget and not something you'd take at all lightly.
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Offline Raef

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 03:33:18 PM »
I have a bone stock 1975 cb 550 F with 2 new balanced tires and new fork oil. I have an ever so subtle wobble on declaration and it only show if 1 or both hands are off the bars? If both hands are on the bars, even with little or no weight or grip, it does not show at all.


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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 03:46:01 PM »
Spoke tightness?  Shows up mostly on decel.  I "twang" each one with my like a guitar string.  I am sure there is a torque value but the twang thing will help.

Offline Raef

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 04:15:46 PM »
Spoke tightness?  Shows up mostly on decel.  I "twang" each one with my like a guitar string.  I am sure there is a torque value but the twang thing will help.

I have been thinking about that, Every once in a while I get a click on hard breaking at stop when the forks unload?

I havent found any lose spokes but I havent gone any farther than checking for "round" and "true"

its gettin cold I'll give it a good once over soon

Mark

Offline camelman

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2010, 06:39:17 PM »
I've had "professionals" install tires poorly before.  They've left the tube between the bead and the rim, didn't seat the bead, etc.  If you didn't have the wobble before, then take another look at the tires.  There is an indicator line all around the tire to show if any portion of it is not seated correctly.

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Offline dave500

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2010, 06:41:39 PM »
hows the swingarm bushes?

Offline seaweb11

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2010, 07:52:50 PM »
I've had "professionals" install tires poorly before.  They've left the tube between the bead and the rim, didn't seat the bead, etc.  If you didn't have the wobble before, then take another look at the tires.  There is an indicator line all around the tire to show if any portion of it is not seated correctly.



+1
Have you checked it just spinning in the air yet as mentioned earlier?

Offline Scott S

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Re: CB500 front end wobble
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 03:52:24 AM »
 I don't know how the bike rode before. Like I said, I pulled it out of a barn earlier this year.

 I have not had time to check the things you guys suggested. Twelve hour shifts haven't left me much time to mess with it. Maybe this weekend.

 
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650