Author Topic: Sandcast #97 restoration (Read 203035 times)

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #650 on:** March 12, 2015, 05:58:12 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on March 12, 2015, 05:54:36 PM

They're bolts because you use a wrench to install and not a screwdriver (regardless of nuts)

+1

MCRider · « **Reply #651 on:** March 12, 2015, 07:12:06 PM »

The actual dfinition of bolts and screws is controversial, "The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used." n any event, this engineer agrees with Mark, as do I.

http://engineerexplains.com/answr/Screw-vs-Bolt1.html

Stev-o · « **Reply #652 on:** March 12, 2015, 07:21:50 PM »

Ok, it's a bolt. But what is the story of the 8? I know that Sandys have them. Grade 8 bolts use symbols.

MCRider · « **Reply #653 on:** March 12, 2015, 07:26:00 PM »

Quote from: Stev-o on March 12, 2015, 07:21:50 PM

Ok, it's a bolt. But what is the story of the 8? I know that Sandys have them. Grade 8 bolts use symbols.

Mark HondaMAn I think recently made a post that it has something to do with JIS v ISO threads.

The 8 in my mind indicated 8mm and the dot was JIS. OCICBW

Are there any 10mm with the "8"?

anders288 · « **Reply #654 on:** March 12, 2015, 07:30:31 PM »

The number cast on top of a metric bolt is it's hardness 8 = SAE grade 5 9.8= grade 8

calj737 · « **Reply #655 on:** March 12, 2015, 07:31:12 PM »

Quote from: MCRider on March 12, 2015, 07:12:06 PM

The actual dfinition of bolts and screws is controversial, "The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used." n any event, this engineer agrees with Mark, as do I.

http://engineerexplains.com/answr/Screw-vs-Bolt1.html

His (the author) logic is sound, and Id have to agree for the most part. Yet, there are too numerous examples in automotive applications where cylinder head bolts are installed thru the head and into the block blind. As are many connecting rod caps, rod bolts. These items are even listed as "bolts" in part fiches universally, yet they don't use a nut.

Now, I don't want to hijack Mark's wonderful thread and get all nuts about bolts and get everyone screwed up (see what I did there

) but just pointing out that perhaps its our language and vernacular that rules the definition more than the technical definition.

MCRider · « **Reply #656 on:** March 12, 2015, 07:51:15 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on March 12, 2015, 07:31:12 PM

Quote from: MCRider on March 12, 2015, 07:12:06 PM
The actual dfinition of bolts and screws is controversial, "The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used." n any event, this engineer agrees with Mark, as do I.

http://engineerexplains.com/answr/Screw-vs-Bolt1.html
His (the author) logic is sound, and Id have to agree for the most part. Yet, there are too numerous examples in automotive applications where cylinder head bolts are installed thru the head and into the block blind. As are many connecting rod caps, rod bolts. These items are even listed as "bolts" in part fiches universally, yet they don't use a nut.

Now, I don't want to hijack Mark's wonderful thread and get all nuts about bolts and get everyone screwed up (see what I did there ) but just pointing out that perhaps its our language and vernacular that rules the definition more than the technical definition.

I agree. When not guided otherwise, I use this definition. But if a certain manufacturer, car, bike, machine wants to call a certain screw a bolt, I won't say they are wrong and will give them such license. We can all get along.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #657 on:** March 12, 2015, 09:36:19 PM »

Quote from: MCRider on March 12, 2015, 07:51:15 PM

Quote from: calj737 on March 12, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
Quote from: MCRider on March 12, 2015, 07:12:06 PM
The actual dfinition of bolts and screws is controversial, "The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used." n any event, this engineer agrees with Mark, as do I.

http://engineerexplains.com/answr/Screw-vs-Bolt1.html
His (the author) logic is sound, and Id have to agree for the most part. Yet, there are too numerous examples in automotive applications where cylinder head bolts are installed thru the head and into the block blind. As are many connecting rod caps, rod bolts. These items are even listed as "bolts" in part fiches universally, yet they don't use a nut.

Now, I don't want to hijack Mark's wonderful thread and get all nuts about bolts and get everyone screwed up (see what I did there ) but just pointing out that perhaps its our language and vernacular that rules the definition more than the technical definition.

I agree. When not guided otherwise, I use this definition. But if a certain manufacturer, car, bike, machine wants to call a certain screw a bolt, I won't say they are wrong and will give them such license. We can all get along.

What is a cap screw?...it's a bolt, silly's!

calj737 · « **Reply #658 on:** March 13, 2015, 05:08:21 AM »

Actually, Sean, a socket head cap screw abides my logic of being a screw based upon the tool (Allen head driver) used to install it. I said earlier screwdriver, but probably should alter that to "driver". Allen heads and torx are some screws types used with a driver that come to mind.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #659 on:** March 13, 2015, 05:55:37 AM »

Hex heads are cap screws too.

calj737 · « **Reply #660 on:** March 13, 2015, 06:00:36 AM »

Quote from: seanbarney41 on March 13, 2015, 05:55:37 AM

Hex heads are cap screws too.

Isn't that what I just said above?

knottedknickers · « **Reply #661 on:** March 13, 2015, 07:29:03 AM »

Quote from: calj737 on March 13, 2015, 05:08:21 AM

Actually, Sean, a socket head cap screw abides my logic of being a screw based upon the tool (Allen head driver) used to install it. I said earlier screwdriver, but probably should alter that to "driver". Allen heads and torx are some screws types used with a driver that come to mind.

Not to throw a wrench into things... OK, precisely to throw a wrench into things:
What do you do with a Nut Driver? According to Wikipedia: "A nut driver is a tool for tightening nuts and bolts. It essentially consists of a socket attached to a shaft and cylindrical handle and is similar in appearance and use to a screwdriver" (emphasis mine). But we've hijacked poor markb's thread over something we probably won't resolve, since even the experts can't figure it out (see e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#Differentiation_between_bolt_and_screw). Fun to think about, though!

markb · « **Reply #662 on:** March 13, 2015, 09:12:41 AM »

Wow, I didn't realize this was going to turn into a "thread" thread.

No worries on the hijack. There was some interesting discussion.

Quote from: MCRider on March 12, 2015, 07:26:00 PM

Are there any 10mm with the "8"?

Good question. Yes, the two front, upper engine mount bolts

are 10mm with 8's.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.

markb · « **Reply #663 on:** March 15, 2015, 10:57:26 AM »

I installed the exhaust spigots.

They look really nice.

Notice the radius on the angled sides? Nice distinction on very early spigots. The plates are thinner too – 5mm instead of 6mm.

markb · « **Reply #664 on:** March 15, 2015, 01:08:40 PM »

Next project, the steering stem. The races in the frame tube were pretty rough so I took them out before painting. The last time I installed them I had a hard time getting them to go in straight so I made this tool.

Makes the job super easy.

Mission accomplished. Never even dropped a ball. The key is to have plenty of grease to hold the balls in place.

markb · « **Reply #665 on:** April 10, 2015, 04:04:07 PM »

Between vacation and a couple of business trips I haven’t had much time to work on the bike. I’m starting to mount some parts on the frame. I got the center stand in and I decided to use the washer method of installing the spring. With someone holding the frame I used to be able to pull it on using a hook but not anymore. I clamped one of the loop ends in to a vice and then using a piece of tubing over the outside of the spring; I bend it back and forth and insert washers between the coils. It took me about a half hour to wrestle them in. It seems one falls out for every two you get in. The key is to try to bend the spring where you want to insert the washer. I use #10 springs and about 32 of them will increase the length by about .75”. Then you hook it onto the C plate and lift up on the center stand and the other end easily slips onto the hook. It might take a while but no straining, no chipped paint, no skinned knuckles.

There it is in place. Is there a “right” way to install it? There are four possible ways. As near as I can tell from the parts manual I think this is correct. Any opinions before I remove the washers. After that it ain’t getting changed.

MCRider · « **Reply #666 on:** April 30, 2015, 12:01:15 PM »

I'd say you got it right. The long spring hook allows for clearance as the stand moves thru its arc. OCICBW

markb · « **Reply #667 on:** May 05, 2015, 12:25:23 PM »

Still busy but I have managed to whittle away at a few things: oil tank, swing arm, center stand, shocks….

…chain guard, ignition switch, side stand and battery box. But of course not without issues. The worst one was dropping the battery box. I still don’t know how that happened. And of course it had to bounce, and I tried to break its fall with my foot and managed to kick it across the floor. I think it was chipped on all 8 corners.

But a trip back to the painter and it’s as good as new.

You can’t see it in this picture but I still need to find a decent, correct starter relay.

This is where it’s fun to make sure all the hex heads are correct. No 8 on the shock, regular 8 on the chain guard…

….offset 8 on the chain adjuster.stopper.

markb · « **Reply #668 on:** June 17, 2015, 05:59:25 AM »

First a quick follow up on the last picture. I realized that there isn’t a washers on the screws for the chain adjuster stopper so I removed them.

I assembled the fork bottoms and completed the forks.

They’re ready to put on the frame. It sure is nice to have pristine fork assemblies. They look like brand new.

I got my painting back too. Looks great.

Now I can start to see some color.

Except for my control housings and master cylinder (more to come on that) I think the rest of the parts are all painted, plated, polished and otherwise ready to assemble. In theory it should go pretty fast at this point. I still have to get tires, battery, chain, etc. but I just might be starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

markb · « **Reply #669 on:** June 17, 2015, 06:34:24 AM »

I decided to use new coils. I understand that some of the early coils were larger but if #97’s were then my frame probably would have been notched per Honda Recall #15 for the throttle valve and cable. Of course the coils could have been changed before the recall but when I go to first start up I don’t want to be wondering if the coils are bad if I have issues. Picture shows no notch.

So I have the coils mounted. It’s really hard to tell just how they go from looking at the parts manuals; in fact the early and later manuals are different in which way the coil hanger bracket goes. Take a look at the pictures below and tell me if you think I have it assembled correctly. It seemed to be the only way it would go so that the coils were centered on the frame. Here’s the right side.

Here’s the left side.

greenjeans · « **Reply #670 on:** June 17, 2015, 08:14:49 AM »

Beautiful. I really do want to make a pilgrimidge to see this bike when it is complete.

fastbroshi · « **Reply #671 on:** June 17, 2015, 11:37:36 AM »

It's so....CLEAN. When it's done it's going to be a shame to ride it. You are going to ride it, aren't you?

markb · « **Reply #672 on:** June 17, 2015, 12:08:01 PM »

At least once. I'll have to know that everything works.

markb · « **Reply #673 on:** June 18, 2015, 06:18:44 AM »

I found this picture in a Honda Manual. It’s a little hard to see but the coil appears to be mounted the same way I did it.

markb · « **Reply #674 on:** July 29, 2015, 09:18:22 AM »

I have been plugging away but have fallen behind in my posts.

After much discussion on this thread, http://cb750sandcastonly.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=281.0,
I have decided to go with Dunlop F11/K87 tires from Yamiya. They seem to be the tire of choice by Vic World and others. I would still like to find some decent Bridgestone Super Speeds but I’m not very optimistic about finding a good rear one.

These are the wheels that came on #97. I tried to take a picture that shows the rolled rim but this is about the best I got.

The DID logo is the only marking on the rims.

This bike won’t get many miles on it and probably won’t ever get these lines worn off. For showing should I try to wash them off or just leave them?

News:

Author Topic: Sandcast #97 restoration (Read 203035 times)