Topic: Sandcast #97 restoration

[markb]

I agree.  The crank is a perfect example of what you're talking about.  The cranks with the 10mm hole were only used on the first 1080 units.

[markb]

I have my “spare” frame torn down and side by side with #97 frame.  You can see that the side stand bracket is definitely in the wrong place.


So while I had both frames up on the bench I decided to compare them closely.  Good thing I did.  First thing I saw was there are some spacers missing on the bottom side of where the rear fender mounts.  Here’s what it should look like.


Here’s what I have (don’t have) on #97.  It looks like they used to be there.  I don’t know why or how they would be removed but I pretty sure they should be there.  Anyone think not?  I can machine up some spacers and have them welded in.


Then I noticed the horn mount.  This is what I think it should look like.  The mount is basically perpendicular to the frame.


Here’s what’s on #97.  It appears to be bent forward.


Here’s a shot from the bottom on the spare.


Here’s a shot from the bottom on #97.  Here you can also see the gusset has been dinged on the right side, maybe from the same incident.  Who knows?


I’m only assuming the horn mount on #97 is bent.  One of them is probably wrong.  I’d like to get some feed back to confirm this.
Thanks,
Mark

[markb]

Any tips on getting the flat head screws out of the back side of the rotor?  They appear to be peened to lock them in place.  I think on my K0 I just drilled the heads off and replaced the screws.

[MCRider]

re: Fender spacers: I've got to check but i think on some models the fender spacer was a dowel pin that was inserted in the inner fender. I may have been dreaming.

[markb]

Another question.  Is the hole that’s at an angle to the through hole in the rod journal supposed to go all the way into the through hole?  If so, does anyone know what size hole?  I used a drill bit by hand to clear out the through hole in the journal.  After doing one this way I used an electric drill.  They were caked up pretty hard.  The same sized drill stops at about a ¼” into the angled hole.  By the way, the journals aren’t as bad as they look.  They’re discolored but there is no scoring or noticeable wear.  When I run my finger across it I can’t feel anything.

[fastbroshi]

Here’s what’s on #97.  It appears to be bent forward.

It's probably bent Mark.  I think I see a tear in the paint running along the bracket's base, then there's the witness mark of some impact there on the frame tube.  Then again that looks pretty fresh, so who knows.

[Old Scrambler]

Amazing to see the frame faults without damage to the motor. It may explain why the tank was painted.

Sorry, no early brake lines here.

This is a great thread for detailed info.............

[754]

 Horn mount looks bent, think the horn is different on early bikes.

  The starter drive on the rotor, I think you can sprinfs and rollers out and clean everything without further disassembly, except the tin cover may not be correct color after cleaning..

 Fender mount looks like threaded bushings to me..

 On the crank, it may be 2 drilled holes that meet.. pick or run a soft wire, blow out, keep trying..... dont break a hard drill off in there.. I think early cranks have a tapped plug, vs a ball that is staked like the later ones.. hole may be smaller past the tapped poertion..

[MCRider]

Yeah those starter clutch screws are tough. Why do you feel the need to remove them?

[markb]

Fender mount looks like threaded bushings to me..

They are actually through holes.  The fender mount bolts thread into the rear fender.

On the crank, it may be 2 drilled holes that meet.. pick or run a soft wire, blow out, keep trying..... dont break a hard drill off in there.. I think early cranks have a tapped plug, vs a ball that is staked like the later ones.. hole may be smaller past the tapped poertion..

There is a tapped plug.  Looks like a 5mm set screw.  Of course they won't come out.  I've decided to bring the crank to a motorcycle machine shop and get their opinion.  One of the main journals has some pitting and I want to what my options are there too.

Yeah those starter clutch screws are tough. Why do you feel the need to remove them?

I just wanted to get in there and make sure everything is clean.  It's pretty rusty inside.

Thanks for the comments,
Mark

[MCRider]

I don't know of any magic way to get those screws off. I've done it once, am struggling with another on current project. Soak in 50/50 acetone/ATF first. Grind off the staking with a Dremel tool. Use an impact driver of some sort, hammer or electric, Drill the heads off altogether.

Or leave them alone and soda blast the whole thing to remove the rust, rinse off in parts cleaner.  Good luck, report back any success.

[754]

The 3 screws, just drill them out, will save the stake marks, then you can restake on same line or just use red loctite.

[markb]

Some good news, bad news.  Here’s the setup I used to tackle the oil plug screws in the crank; an impact driver, 1/2” to 3/8” adapter and a 3/8” drive 3mm hex bit.


Here’s what I’m trying to get out.


This is what it looks like when it’s out!


Yes, that’s part of the good news.  I actually got two of them out!


And here’s why they have to come out.  Not sure how well this shows but the hole is filled with black sludge.


The bad news is the sockets in the next two rounded out.  So for the learn-by-my-mistakes department, I think the first two went too easy and I pushed too hard on the next two.  I used a lot of heat on the first two and since they were probably Loctited in that probably made the difference.  The other part of the good news at least I know what size and style they are for replacement and how deep the hole is for drilling or burning them out.  At least I know I can get them out.

[MCRider]

You may be one of the 2 or 3 people on the planet that have ever taken those out. Carry on!

[MoMo]

You may be one of the 2 or 3 people on the planet that have ever taken those out. Carry on!

Mark could be the only one-gotta admire his dedication...Larry

[fastbroshi]

My question is, what is their purpose, and why did you have to remove them?

[markb]

You may be one of the 2 or 3 people on the planet that have ever taken those out. Carry on!

Actually there are at least two places that do this routinely for either cleaning or modifications such as fluting the oil galleries for better oil flow.
http://www.faliconcranks.com/
http://www.aperaceparts.com/
The later cranks are plugged with a steel ball.  APE will remove the balls plugging the holes in later cranks and replace them with screw plugs.

My question is, what is their purpose, and why did you have to remove them?

The purpose of the hole is to create an oil path from the main journal to the crank pin.  After it's drilled it's plugged (otherwise there would be no oil pressure).  I had to remove mine so that I could clean out the oil galleries that are filled with solid sludge.  Normally this wouldn't have to be done on a crank out of a runner but this one sat outside for 24+ years.

[754]

 I think the first logical step is to flust thru the oil holes on a crank, with solvent and see what comes out. Should be able to tell tight away if its plugged or if sludge is comming out...

 When I sold my sandcast, I had not tried to start it. figuring if it was going for resto it would be torn down.. Maybe that was a good think.. in the back of my mind, I always thought.. What if there is corrosion on the crank or bearing?, running it wont help it..

[markb]

I’m ready to drop the #97 frame off for the welder to repair my side stand mount, straighten the horn mount and steering damper gusset.  I also machined the posts that are missing on the frame.


Once the frame is painted you won’t be able to tell they were ever gone.


While I’m at it I’m going to see if he can fix up the inside of the upper, front motor mounts on the other frame.  It’s kind of hard to make it out in this picture but it’s pretty chewed up, probably from the lock washers.


Here’s what it should look like.


I’m thinking I’ll probably get both of them painted while I’m at it to stop any more rust.

[HedNut]

I truley enjoy how intimate you are getting with the bike...and sharing each step of your intimacy is gold on here!!
Cheers! and keep up the good stuff.  She'll be beautiful some day!

[markb]

The frames are out for welding so I decided to work on getting all the black ready for paint.  When I got to the oil tank I had another surprise.  There’s a pretty good size hole rusted through.  It wasn’t that big to start with.  Just a soft spot and that’s how big it got with just my thumbnail.  I haven’t decided if it’s repairable or not.  I think I should try removing the internal rust to see how bad it is first.  Worst case is I have another one from a later sandcast but I'd like to use as many of the original parts as I can.

[Old Scrambler]

Mark..........Your #97 oil tank was more likely the 903rd tank made in a 1000 tank supplier order.....you know........last in the bin is the first out!  I know you want to keep it together, but if the other tank is the "same" regarding the welds and mounting tabs..........it would make for a more sound restoration.  You could still document the replacement to show the next owner.

[CycleRanger]

Meh, that can be brazed up pretty easily.

[markb]

While thinking about the oil tank, I got the last two oil path plugs removed from the crank.  I ran drill bits through all the holes and then cleaned them out good with pipe cleaners.  I’m still planning on having it hot tanked and ultrasonically cleaned (along with the cases and oil tank(s)) to make sure everything is as clean as it can be.  As I was working on the holes I found one that doesn’t appear to go through.  Am I just missing something or what does this hole do?  The one that I’m talking about is the one on the right in the pic?

[markb]

I figured out that the hole supplies oil to the starter gear.  It must be plugged.  I'll check it out tonight.