Topic: Sandcast #97 restoration

[fastbroshi]

It's nice to have access to great tools eh?  I need a lathe...

[markb]

It's nice to have access to great tools eh?  I need a lathe...

And guys that know how to use them.

[markb]

Here are some pics of the oil filter housing.  I’ve never actually seen one in person but I’m pretty sure it’s the real deal.  There are no reinforcing ribs on the inside and the surface definitely appears to have a cast finish.


The outside has imperfections but I don’t think it’s road blast because it’s uniform all around the outside.


The front face definitely has road blast but I think it should clean up.


Is this the real deal?  If it is my list of needed correct parts is getting shorter.  Am I correct that the smooth housings were polished like the engine covers and not painted?  Any tips for restoring?
Thanks for any input.

[754]

 Hope that is not a crack at 9 oclock in the pics.

 Probably a real one, I think all fin ones are internally ribbed.

 Dont torque it much, they are easy to break..

[markb]

Hope that is not a crack at 9 oclock in the pics.

 Probably a real one, I think all fin ones are internally ribbed.

 Dont torque it much, they are easy to break..

I saw that too.  There is no evidence of a crack in the hole so I hope I'm good.  I'll probably run it with a replica and save this one for show.

[markb]

I forgot to mention something I did this past week.  I was looking at my crankshaft main and rod bearings and decided they have to be replaced.  I don’t know why I was even considering reusing them.  I looked on the crank in the usual place for markings and everywhere else for that matter.  Nothing.  Maybe it’s because of the age?


Couldn’t find any markings on the rods either, except for a “2” scribed on one of them.  That, along with the journal on the rotor end of the crank (mentioned in earlier post) convinced me to send the crank out.  I need one more opinion on that.  I talked to APE and they’re going to check out the journal and repair if necessary.  While they have it they will measure everything for me and install the rods.  I mic’d the journals and my crank code should be JL-CBBBC PL-5555.  The case was stamped AABAA so selecting bearings for the crank shouldn’t be a problem.  I found it interesting that the main bearings should be green, yellow, yellow, yellow, green.  Yellows, being the thinnest bearing, would indicate to me that there wasn’t excess wear on the journals.  We’ll see how close I was when I get the crank back.

[markb]

So I’ve been thinking about the front oil gallery plug on the upper case.  I was thinking that the ultrasonic cleaning would make sure that it was clean behind there but…I kept thinking about it.  So I had to get it out to find out.  Saturday I squirted it a couple of times with Aero Kroil.  Sunday I got out the torch and heated all around the plug for a couple minutes, put a fairly heavy, slotted screwdriver on it and it came right out.  If that didn’t do it I was going try heating it again and go outside and grab an icicle to cool off the plug quick.  No damage to the plug either.  I tried to get a shot that would show the inside of the hole but no luck.  I almost expected a bunch of gunk on the end of the plug but was it was clean.  I doubt you’d find a case much dirtier than this one or one that should be stuck more than this one.  I had to know if the plug would come out and I had to know if the ultrasonic cleaning worked.   Now I know.

[markb]

I’m trying to figure out what the holes do in this picture of the clutch area of the lower case from E100.


Here’s a shot from the bottom.


But the bigger question is, why doesn’t the vertical hole go all the way through on my later sandcast engine E5491 shown here?

[jaguar]

love the optimism with those pics!

i really wish that i had the skill or resources to restore or own an early stock bike

[ekpent]

New mysteries are popping up all the time.With an engine that early you are definitely in uncharted waters. Hopefully one of the Sandy guys on the other site will know, or our own 754.Lovin' this thread and your dedication,thanks for letting us watch.   Eric    PS-Did you buy that engine #6732 Sandcast that you inquired about on the Sandy site.?  If so you owe us more pics 

[markb]

So far no replies from the SOOC guys.  But hopefully someone will have some insight to it.  I didn't buy 6732.  Just a few minutes too late.

[sallen]

Been following yours posts and enjoying watching your progress. I do have on question though in regards to were you bought this. Did you purchase this in NW Oklahoma bye chance? I live in Wichita,Kansas and went to a town in NW
Oklahoma that had a custom motorcycle shop that had some older Hondas. This was last summer when I went. Just a thought..Steve

[markb]

Actually I did get it from OK but not NW and I bought it before last summer.

[RickB]

Mark,

If you don't mind, could you tell me the story behind how you came to find the original oil filter housing. I don't know much about these early bikes but reading through this thread you yourself said they're unobtainable. I just figured there might be an interesting story as to how you found such a rare part relatively easy.

Rick.

[markb]

I wish I had some wild story about how I got that oil filter cover.  Pretty boring actually.  I was talking to a guy about a bike and found out he had one.  At first he didn’t want to sell it but I guess I talked him out of it.  Part of that was money talking and a part swap.  I actually know the whereabouts of a few others, on bikes and two that aren’t, but the owners don’t want to part with them, at least with a reasonable amount of “talking”.

I wouldn’t actually say I found it easily though.  I’d been looking for a cover for a year and other parts for longer than that.  The secret to finding some of these parts is perseverance.  I check this site and others and eBay and Cralgslist and others every day.  I post here and place ads looking for parts.  I ask everyone that I talk to about bikes (dealers, sellers, forum members, etc.) if they know of anything or anyone who has stuff.  I've followed a lot of leads of "I know a guys who knows this guy who....".  And a lot of them end up being wild goose chases.

Then when you find something you have to jump quick and hard.  I’ve literally missed stuff by minutes and also passed on stuff that I shouldn’t have.  I’ve paid too much for some things and got good deals on others so I hope it all evens out.  Some sandcast guys seem more willing to trade parts rather than sell something.  So sometimes I buy parts I don’t really need if the price is OK.

I think I’ve been lucky too, which never hurts.  You have to been in the right place at the right time but sometimes you just have to make sure you’re in the right place often enough to be there at the right time.  So I'm still looking for some early smooth rubber oil lines, the long front engine mounting bolt, early rear pillion bolts (I'd take later ones too), early tach and speedo cables.....

[754]

 I cant agree more.. some prople find more stuff, simply because they WORK ..MORE at it..
 Dont work at it, you get less results..

 Having people know you are into certain bikes, helps a lot.. I was talking to a guy with a 40 Indian Chief, who told me about an old Honda 750, thought it was a 69. I even told him if it really was, that it was worth money. He said not interested, thought I would like it..... so I got CB750 # 572.. cheap...

 I also agree with aquiring trading stock, when dealing with rare or early bikes, sometimes  getting rid of parts for cash, does not make much sense.. a lot of folks woith 70's bikes (or newer) dont understand that

[markb]

So I had this crazy thought.  When I was using the torch to help remove studs and screws from the cases, I noticed some kind of moisture forming in the area around the flame.  Could this be water or something leeching out of the aluminum?  I haven't had any paint stick problems with my diecast or sandcast that was painted but I've seen posts from guys who have used the same paint and did have problems.  In both my other cases it was months before the assembly was completed and subject to heat and oil and gas so maybe that was part of the reason for my success.  Maybe too because they hadn't sat outside for over 20 years.  But what would you think about putting the cases in the oven at 250 degrees F. for a couple of hours to "dry" them out before painting?  Actually I know my painter puts them under a heat lamp before painting but I'm sure they don't get that warm.  Any thoughts?

[Old Scrambler]

Mark......that's a good thought.........I had a professional paint a diecast motor 2-years ago. He heated the motor parts to 250-degrees for an hour, then he sprayed and baked everything. 

[markb]

I pulled out the covers today to work on.  I’d like to get them done before I need them.  I hate this part.  I guess hate is a little strong.  Yea, I hate this part.  Anyway, I came up with another challenge.  And more questions.  I didn’t see this until I started sanding on the rotor cover, but I have a small crack   on the cover.  You can see there are quite a few good dings in it too but I’m hoping they will sand out.  But there’s a pretty good dent and that’s where the crack is.


Here’s a better view of the crack.  It’s visible on the inside too.  It doesn’t appear to have been leaking but it seems like I should do something about it.  So here’s the questions.  Would repairing it using JB Weld or welding it on the inside be sufficient?  Is it possible to fill the dent with weld or will there be a problem with the color of the aluminum matching?  Should I sand enough to remove all the blemishes or if a little is left is that OK.

[somesuch]

I think there will be a color difference if you weld it, but I also think that welding it up is the only way to fix it. Depending on how good the crack weld comes out to be you could fill the rest of the scratches or not. If you decide not to weld them, do *not* sand all the way until all scratches are removed, they are too deep for that....
my 2 cents....

--Nick

[Old Scrambler]

Suggestion based on observed welding at the local shop..........drill the crack and save the metal. Add it to metal from another scrap case cover-to hot-roll a stick to repair the holes.  The finished project should be color matched.

[Old Scrambler]

Other repair thoughts............I believe that dyno-cover has a unique ID in the casting on the bottom near the edge....you could cut the ID off and weld to a good dyno-cover.........or just keep the one you have for authenticity and put a good replacement unit on the bike.

Regarding the apparent look of a crack on the inside of the oil filter cover..............I have seen that mark on other covers..........looks like where the machining tool was lifted from the cover.   

[fastbroshi]

Sounds like a job for Alumiweld

[markb]

Suggestion based on observed welding at the local shop..........drill the crack and save the metal. Add it to metal from another scrap case cover-to hot-roll a stick to repair the holes.  The finished project should be color matched.

I kinda like this idea.  I'll be talking to my welder today.  The scary part is doing this kind of work on a rare part.  It is the original cover with the thin lip on the left side and the smooth background on the Honda logo.  Later ones have a thicker lip and a textured background.  Two features that are easy to spot.  The thin lip covers were used up to engine 2134.  That alone would make it rare but the smooth background covers were only used on the first 342 engines!  Finding a replacement would be next to impossible.

Sounds like a job for Alumiweld

I'm not familiar with this but I'll be weighing all my options before doing anything.

Thanks guys.

[MasterChief750]

what about that micro welding that is done to carb posts, coul possibly be less noticable.