Author Topic: Shorter forks  (Read 2436 times)

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Offline Wtrdog

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Shorter forks
« on: November 03, 2010, 08:24:26 AM »
so i had planned to lower the bike some (cb550) and I need to shorten the front forks.  it looks like it needs to be about 4".  i've seen different how to's about how to shorten the forks, I'm just wondering how far I can go without ruining the forks?

all the how to's seem to be about 2"


Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 08:28:45 AM »
I don't know anything about cutting the forks to make the, shorter but you can visit cyclex or forks by frank and get shorter forks there.
If anything, you could sell your forks to fund the new ones instead of cutting them up.

Offline Triffecpa

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 08:43:57 AM »
so i had planned to lower the bike some (cb550) and I need to shorten the front forks.  it looks like it needs to be about 4".  i've seen different how to's about how to shorten the forks, I'm just wondering how far I can go without ruining the forks?

all the how to's seem to be about 2"



the problem with shortening the forks isn't about "ruining them".  The problem is that the sliders will hit the lower triple clamp under braking if you shorten the forks too much. 

Tracy

Offline MCRider

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 09:07:04 AM »
I know a lot of people are running shorter forks for looks and such, and to each their own. I would like to add for those that may not be aware, if this is a bike you truly intend to ride at something other than a pedestrian pace, (sub 20mph) a short fork will almost certainly, eventually, lead to tankslapper condition which at normal driving speeds could easily be lethal.

When the wheel hits a bump, the forks absorb the energy on the upstroke and redirect it back down on the downstroke keeping the tire in contact with the road. If there is not enough fork travel to do this, and I think 4" is the minimum in my book, the energy travelling up the fork will bottom the suspension and the energy is then redirected sideways into the steering causing the steering to oscillate side to side. Your elbows will hit the tank on both sides, hence the term "tankslapper". It is virtually impossible to recover from this condition, the handlebars will be ripped from your hands, and you will go down.

Those of us who have raced, or ridden dirt bikes, have experienced this as we have overtaxed our front ends at one time or another. I hit a hole on the interstate on my GT650 Hawk, it bottomed out and the resulting tankslapper broke my finger with the clutch lever, (put your pinky finger on your desk, then take a clutch lever and hit it hard enough to break the lever and the finger, that's the kiind of power we're talking about. And that's before I left the bike!)  ripped the bars from my hands and threw me down the road at 60mph. had a truck been following me it's been lights out, as it was on a section with sides and no where to go.

Our SOHC forks are pretty puny to begin with. Any reduction in their effectiveness is a safety issue, please proceed with care.

Whenever i see a bike with shortened forks, i just cringe.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 09:30:52 AM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Wtrdog

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 09:53:02 AM »
it's really not to be cool, but to even out the bike since it ended up lower in the back.

Offline swellguy

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 10:08:18 AM »
This is a very old-school way of lowering your stock front forks by about 2":

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/shortening_forks/shortening_forks.html

going anything further than this would likely involve either shorter new fork uppers or having yours cut down and machined.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 10:26:54 AM »
it's really not to be cool, but to even out the bike since it ended up lower in the back.
Not picking on you, I see it everywhere. If you're really going to ride it and its not just for show, well ... you're on your own.

Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Really?

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 11:12:17 AM »

Whenever i see a bike with shortened forks, i just cringe.

Sorry Ron, I did not want to make you cringe!  ;D
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline Nikkisixx

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 12:36:04 PM »
Changing the fork length alters the trail of the front wheel slightly - tucking the front wheel under the front of the bike if you will.  This makes the steering "lighter" and "quicker" which is why race and sport bikes have a short trail and why choppers are known for being a pig in corners. 

A short trail can result in a "tank slapper" under extreme circumstances, which is why some bikes have steering dampers (others seem to run them 'cause they are cool).  Before making changes I would suggest you read up.  Here is a start:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/rake_and_trail.htm

Forking by Frank can shorten your tubes for less than $100 after shipping.  WAY cheaper than new tubes.  Shorter tubes are no worse than running the fork high in the trees

FWIW:  I have a '78 750 K which runs naked fork tubes (no gators).  I put a Zip-tie on the tube right above the slider to see what maximum travel would be.  So far it has never exceeded 3 inches.  On this same bike I have a Tarozzi fork brace,   Race Tech Gold Emulators, and 10 wt fork oil.  Previously  (before the fancy parts) the stock setup never dampened more than 2 inches. 
It is a proven fact that modifying a SOHC Honda in any way will bring on the apocalypse.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 02:45:19 PM »
Changing the fork length alters the trail of the front wheel slightly - tucking the front wheel under the front of the bike if you will.  This makes the steering "lighter" and "quicker" which is why race and sport bikes have a short trail and why choppers are known for being a pig in corners. 

A short trail can result in a "tank slapper" under extreme circumstances, which is why some bikes have steering dampers (others seem to run them 'cause they are cool).  Before making changes I would suggest you read up.  Here is a start:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/rake_and_trail.htm

Forking by Frank can shorten your tubes for less than $100 after shipping.  WAY cheaper than new tubes.  Shorter tubes are no worse than running the fork high in the trees

FWIW:  I have a '78 750 K which runs naked fork tubes (no gators).  I put a Zip-tie on the tube right above the slider to see what maximum travel would be.  So far it has never exceeded 3 inches.  On this same bike I have a Tarozzi fork brace,   Race Tech Gold Emulators, and 10 wt fork oil.  Previously  (before the fancy parts) the stock setup never dampened more than 2 inches. 

Its true few street bikes have the 4" of travel I thought would be ideal. Which makes it more important to preserve what there is. Modern forks have much better damping than the SOHC forks which greatly reduces the chances of fork induced tankslappers. Your emulators do the same.  When I had my accident, I got on the GT650 site and did some homework. Seems the stock GT650s did not have the more modern approach to damping in their forks. It probably doesn't have 3+ inches of travel either. Tank slappers were reported often, as the Hawk is the type of bike owners like to push and the forks were the weak link. An upgrade to emulators or to a CBR600 fork was the fix.

I immediately had a speed shop install Gold Seal Emulators and springs and further set up the fork. But my problem didn't come from shortening the fork but rather from a low tech setup allowing it to bottom out.

True shortening the tubes doesn't decrease the allowable travel. Where the problem would lie is clearance under the lower tree. If the fender came up and hit it or possibley worse or at least as bad, the tire, a tank slapper could be induced as though the travel had been shortened. If I were so inclined to shorten the front end, I would test it to see if the front wheel will travel thru its range up without hitting the lower tree.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 02:51:56 PM »
And NikkiSixx I meant to ask how you like the emulators? I have a 75F I want to put them in. They did wonders for the Hawk.

Sorry for the thread jack.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Nikkisixx

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 03:14:54 PM »
And NikkiSixx I meant to ask how you like the emulators? I have a 75F I want to put them in. They did wonders for the Hawk.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Just an opinion, but they made a HUGE difference and worth the time and money.  I only have anecdotal seat of the pants evidence to provide but for instance the sharp bump at the end of my drive no longer knocks my teeth loose.    8) After I tuned up the front end I noticed the pogo action of the 30 year old rear shocks  :D  A set of progressive springs and shocks in the back and that bike handles nicely.
It is a proven fact that modifying a SOHC Honda in any way will bring on the apocalypse.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Shorter forks
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2010, 03:32:21 PM »
And NikkiSixx I meant to ask how you like the emulators? I have a 75F I want to put them in. They did wonders for the Hawk.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Just an opinion, but they made a HUGE difference and worth the time and money.  I only have anecdotal seat of the pants evidence to provide but for instance the sharp bump at the end of my drive no longer knocks my teeth loose.    8) After I tuned up the front end I noticed the pogo action of the 30 year old rear shocks  :D  A set of progressive springs and shocks in the back and that bike handles nicely.
Sounds like a good combo.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."