Author Topic: Clutch "popped" - won't engage. - MORE UPDATE!! (Read 5920 times)

brycegp · « **on:** November 05, 2010, 12:09:24 PM »

When it rains, it pours!!

Earlier this week, I washed my bike (with water) and wreaked all sorts of havok. Well, it was back on the road with minimal effort...

Seemingly unrelated (but i may be wrong), this AM i fire up the bike...no problems. Then I go to drive off and I pull in the clutch to shift into first, out of neutral, and about half pull it "popped" and then the clutch lever became very easy to pull...very little resistance. But the clutch lever did return as it should...just with very little resistance. So the clutch is no longer engaging.

NOTE: I've had NO PROBLEMS with the clutch until this very sudden "pop"...no slipping, easy shifting, etc.

So I took off the left side casing to see what's going on behind it. The cable, as i said, was still intact and still pulling the clutch lifter. The clutch lifter sled is "lifting" when I pull the clutch lever. And the clutch lifter rod was intact. (Its about 3 inches long BUT in the diagram below it looks 7-8 inches long.)

NOTE: I mentioned washing my bike yesterday. Well...when I unbolted the left casing, about a half cup of water came out from inside the casing. RELATED?? Cant imagine that water back there for a day would cause complete clutch failure.

I haven't looked any further than removing the casing, as I had to run off to work. But honestly, from the outside everything looks to be working normally.

I'll get pics up asap as soon as I get off work.

How could the clutch just "pop" like that? VERY SUDDENLY!! ...no warning what so ever.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2010, 12:29:21 PM »

Take the case cover off and check the rod. If you pull it out and the rod is just 3-4 inches long then you've broken the rod. I have that problem. I've put a ball bearing in between the 2 pieces of rod as a temporary fix.
If this is the issue Honda no longer makes the part but there is an NOS one on ebay right now.
Also check the lifter mechnism itself to make sure it's working corrctly

brycegp · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2010, 12:33:32 PM »

The lifter mechanism seems to be working just fine....I pulled the clutch lever and watched it "turn and push"...

I searched ebay and couldn't find that rod. can you shoot me the link?

DavePhipps · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2010, 01:07:10 PM »

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250712750571&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

brycegp · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2010, 01:25:51 PM »

got one from www.HondaService.com

spent a couple bucks extra but whatever...

Question: How do you get the broken piece inside the motor out???

dave500 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2010, 01:29:59 PM »

remove the clutch cover and pull or push it through.

brycegp · « **Reply #6 on:** November 05, 2010, 01:32:47 PM »

Quote from: dave500 on November 05, 2010, 01:29:59 PM

remove the clutch cover and pull or push it through.

will i have to replace a gasket? if so, I need to order it today. this is my daily rider and my ride to work... $:-\$

brycegp · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2010, 02:47:00 PM »

is this the gasket I need for the Clutch Cover?? Alt. name apparently is "Crankcase Gasket"...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OEM-Honda-CB500-Four-Crankcase-Gasket-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ200074849701QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_544wt_941

Anyone have a pic of the engine with the Clutch Cover removed so I can plan for what's back there?

Thanks!

DavePhipps · « **Reply #8 on:** November 05, 2010, 02:49:35 PM »

What i did to get mine out was remove right footpeg, kickstart lever, brake lever,remove all screws from clutch cover and remove the cover. Have something to catch the oil. Remove the 5 bolts on the clutch pressure plate, remove plate and then the clutch lifter. Take a LOOONNGG screwdriver (phillips #3, 12 inches long is my fav) and gently push the rod out.
Insert new lifter rod and reassemble. Mke sure the kickstart return spring has not come loose and the washer has not fallen off the kickstart lever shaft. I..uh... know a guy that forgot to do that and uh, well lets leave it at that.
My gasket was in decent shape so I just reused it with no issue. You might want a new one just in case.
On the left case cover lube the lift actuator mechism, make sure the ball hasn't fallen out, and reassemble.

I hope this helps.

DavePhipps · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2010, 02:52:45 PM »

Quote from: brycegp on November 05, 2010, 02:47:00 PM

is this the gasket I need for the Clutch Cover?? Alt. name apparently is "Crankcase Gasket"...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OEM-Honda-CB500-Four-Crankcase-Gasket-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ200074849701QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_544wt_941

Anyone have a pic of the engine with the Clutch Cover removed so I can plan for what's back there?

Thanks!

Looks right to me, but I'm always nervous about buying unpackaged gaskets from ebay.

brycegp · « **Reply #10 on:** November 05, 2010, 02:53:59 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 05, 2010, 02:49:35 PM

What i did to get mine out was remove right footpeg, kickstart lever, brake lever,remove all screws from clutch cover and remove the cover. Have something to catch the oil. Remove the 5 bolts on the clutch pressure plate, remove plate and then the clutch lifter. Take a LOOONNGG screwdriver (phillips #3, 12 inches long is my fav) and gently push the rod out.
Insert new lifter rod and reassemble. Mke sure the kickstart return spring has not come loose and the washer has not fallen off the kickstart lever shaft. I..uh... know a guy that forgot to do that and uh, well lets leave it at that.
My gasket was in decent shape so I just reused it with no issue. You might want a new one just in case.
On the left case cover lube the lift actuator mechism, make sure the ball hasn't fallen out, and reassemble.

I hope this helps.

Very helpful! Thanks!

Now I just wish I wasn't stuck at work...boss on his way up here where my team and I are to deliver a huge presentation. NOT EXACTLY WHAT'S ON MY MIND RIGHT NOW!

DavePhipps · « **Reply #11 on:** November 05, 2010, 03:09:11 PM »

Good luck with the presentation. Remember if you can't get it done, delegate. Project management golden rule.

brycegp · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2010, 03:16:03 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 05, 2010, 12:29:21 PM

Take the case cover off and check the rod. If you pull it out and the rod is just 3-4 inches long then you've broken the rod. I have that problem. I've put a ball bearing in between the 2 pieces of rod as a temporary fix.
If this is the issue Honda no longer makes the part but there is an NOS one on ebay right now.
Also check the lifter mechnism itself to make sure it's working corrctly

How reliable is this "ball bearing temp fix"?? It could take up to a week to get the parts...so i need to do this temp fix.

Is the lifter rod inside a tube so the ball bearing doesn't fall into the gearing, I assume?

dave500 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2010, 03:44:28 PM »

i would only do that if you absolutey had to drive the bike home or similar,the soft aluminum against the hard ball is also not going to sit square and will push against the side of the tunnel inviting a problem,not so bad when riding along perhaps but in stop go traffic itll be getting a work out.

brycegp · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2010, 03:50:43 PM »

tru dat....thanks!

DavePhipps · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2010, 04:43:14 PM »

I didn't mention this little bit I found on mine. the rods both had concave ends on them. They looked machined so my ball sits cupped between them (sounds a bit kinky/erotic

)

brycegp · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2010, 05:26:12 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 05, 2010, 04:43:14 PM

so my ball sits cupped between them

brycegp · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2010, 05:48:12 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 05, 2010, 03:09:11 PM

Good luck with the presentation. Remember if you can't get it done, delegate. Project management golden rule.

Hey, Dave! I'm an IU grad, Kelley School O' Biz...so I'm familiar with that golden rule. Nailed the presentation BTW...

Now its a waiting game for my part...

DavePhipps · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2010, 05:54:32 PM »

I learned that one from working at Microsoft LOL.
Funny, I just applied for a tech position at the KSOB recently. Small world.

brycegp · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2010, 06:27:20 PM »

Quote from: davephipps on November 05, 2010, 05:54:32 PM

I learned that one from working at Microsoft LOL.
Funny, I just applied for a tech position at the KSOB recently. Small world.

Small world indeed...I'm working on a major project with Microsoft.

www.theinvestedlife.msn.com

DavePhipps · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2010, 06:48:08 PM »

Looks pretty cool. It speaks to the everyday person better than the Motley Fool.
Good luck on the project and the clutch.

brycegp · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2010, 09:40:50 AM »

Guys,

Help me understand why this broken Lifter Rod could really be the problem. What is the difference in length between ONE 8" rod AND a 3" rod plus a 5" rod??? Both equal 8" total length...broken or not.

So if the clutch lifter rod snapped why would it become suddenly shorter? Besides...look at the piece of rod I pulled out. The "broken" end looks milled NOT broken.

haill · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2010, 10:25:13 AM »

the part labeled as #9 the peace clutch rifter joint is also a wear item.
the broken clutch push rod doesn't shrink but can flex hence the ball bearing to take up the flex created by the huge force of pushing out the clutch pack.
when my cb500 was taken apart the sides of the peace clutch rifter were both broken off and this ball bearing fix was there.
Made for a heavy clutch pull and not allot of feel. Once all the mechanisms were replaced with new from the clutch cable all the way across to the clutch plates the improvement was incredible.
Don't know why push rods are machined like it was made to be in two pieces then joined after but new rods are completely one unit.
Mine also was broken in the sameway.

bryanj · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2010, 11:01:39 AM »

Reason for two metals was inertial weight (releases slower if heavier) and they break when the chain goes loose---cheaper than 750 cases tho'

The later Honda part was a one piece steel rod anyway and the original clutch was "lifted" from the 450 twin which didnt give as much agro, so say, and was one of the main improvements for the 550

brycegp · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2010, 12:17:37 PM »

So some pretty obvious issues here. Refer to "left side" diagram and compare to my photo.

I haven't opened the right side yet to see how that mechanism is, yet.

1.

2.

As you can see:

#5 is broken into two pieces (and a couple fragments also).

#9 (brass seal) is severely worn.

#3 and #6 are fine.

News:

Author Topic: Clutch "popped" - won't engage. - MORE UPDATE!! (Read 5920 times)