Author Topic: Auto Chain Oiler (Read 4688 times)

Bob Wessner · « **on:** March 13, 2006, 03:17:29 PM »

Finally getting around to trying to address some pesky oil weeps. Found them and the last is the auto chain oiler. As I had suspected, mine is not adjustable. They didn't make them adjustable until a later date. I would swear I saw something posted long ago about how to shut this off, but after many search tries I can't find the post. Does anyone recall this, or better yet, done this?

bwaller · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:03:28 PM »

Even the adjustable setups didn't shut-off completely, I used an aluminum sealing washer between the bolt and the end of the countershaft, could you do something similar?

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:44:03 PM »

What you are saying seems like what I recall from the earlier post that I couldn't locate.. something about a washer. Here's diagram of the non-adjustable oiler I have. Where are you suggesting inserting the washer??

oldfart · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2006, 06:49:35 PM »

Not that I condone the practice, but old-timers used to turn it off by taking an old spark plug, screwing it in (after removing the valve) and then whacking off the porcelain of the plug. It works, but as I say, not an elegant solution. The point is, what one needs is a 12mm bolt with the appropriate (I believe 1.5mm) thread. :-)

amattel · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:37:23 PM »

I ended up using the old-timers spark plug trick. knocked the end off and screwed it in and whala! it's done.

The size of the bolt needed to plug is is m14 x 1.25 whihc is the same pitch as a 14mm spark plug which is NOT a common pitch for a 14mm bolt. The standard pitches for a m14 bolt are 2.0 and 1.5. I called lots of fastener manufacturers and they could make it custom, but didn't normally have such a thing.

The closest I found premade was an oil plug bolt but it was too short to cover the internal hole in the side of the countershaft where the oil exits on its way to the chain.

I also had a leak in my countershaft seal (behind the front sprocket) which complicated the leak finding process as it looks similar in how it manifests.

Anyway,

Hope this info helps...

Adam

Jonesy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2006, 08:22:33 PM »

Quote from: Adam on March 13, 2006, 07:37:23 PM

The closest I found premade was an oil plug bolt but it was too short to cover the internal hole in the side of the countershaft where the oil exits on its way to the chain.

Hmmm... would a CB750 Oil pan drain plug be the right size??

If you want a drain plug in the suggested size, I could look for one at the hardware store near me (I have to go there tomorrow anyway). They have bins with all kinds of wierd stuff and they have drain plugs, so you might get lucky (this is the same place that had the special aluminum plug washers I sent to Terry in Australia to stop his leaky K2).

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:51:31 AM »

Quote

If you want a drain plug in the suggested size, I could look for one at the hardware store near me (I have to go there tomorrow anyway).

Please do. Just how far in is this little hole that has to be covered? There is a reference to this oiler in Haycock's book, but the drawing is, well, not that great.

Jonesy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:22:26 AM »

Not sure if this drawing is to scale, but here's the x-section of the shaft with the adjustable oiler. (My bike was leaking oil badly here as the rubber stopper (#5) that gets spread by the adjustment screw was missing, allowing it to hose oil full-tilt all the time.) It appears Honda just added a means for adjustment to the existing setup:

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:03:43 AM »

So #4 is the hole that needs to be blocked off, correct? If so, I don't see how adding a washer alone would accomplish anything.. unless I'm missing something.

Jonesy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:09:56 AM »

Yep, #4 is it. You need a plug bolt that will thread in far enough to go past the hole. Or, if that fails, you could find something that would plug the small hole in the shaft where the oil exits...

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:14:37 AM »

Well, I think I have some time to ponder either/both approaches as it doesn't seem like I will be riding again any time soon.. brrrr.

amattel · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:59:39 AM »

On my k2 you can see the hole looking into the open end of the countershaft.

Also if you remove the front sprocket then you can see the hole on the outside of hte shaft. Which might be easier to measure.

Adam

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:24:11 AM »

Thanks, that was the plan. Measure the distance from the open end to the hole, then take the bolt with me to the hardware store and try to find one that fits, but long enough to reach and cover the hole.. the plan anyway.

bwaller · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:49:01 PM »

Sorry Bob, I quess I just muddied the waters with my first post. It will take a bolt 14.5mm in length ( no more thread than that) to block the hole, plus the width of a sealing washer. As Adam said the countershaft hole is 14x1.25mm. Clean up the oiling hole and after you thread your bolt in fill the hole with silicone to be sure. I have an old plug I brazed for this purpose kicking around here if you can't find something to fit.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:52:47 PM »

No problem, now it makes more sense and thanks for the dimensions.

Jonesy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:00:47 PM »

Bob, I sent you a PM about this. I might have a source for these oddball bolts...

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:09:16 PM »

bwaller,

Just curious, have you located a bolt of the correct pitch and done this mod? If so, where did you get the bolt?

bwaller · « **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2006, 04:42:57 PM »

No but sounds like Jonesy is bearing down on a lead. I was able to shut my K3 down without any grief. I do have a 14mm NGK that I modified & brazed that you can have if you don't find anything better

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2006, 04:45:44 PM »

Thanks for the offer. Yeah, Dan is tracking down a possible source for a longer bolt through a friend.

amattel · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2006, 04:55:13 PM »

I would love to replace my broken ended spark plug with a real bolt if one is found.

Adam

bwaller · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2006, 08:01:21 PM »

I checked with a machinist friend tonight, he'll see if he can do anything tomorrow. I'll let ya'll know.

techy5025 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 15, 2006, 10:40:13 PM »

Bob,

I solved this problem by plugging the hole (#4) in the diagram by pulling a tapered piece of rubber
through the hole starting from the inside. Forgot where I got the rubber piece, but when installed
it completely blocked the hole. I started by removing the plug bolt and the drive sprocket....inserted
the round tapered piece small end first into the hollow shaft and worked it through the small weep
hole with a pair of needle nose pliers. As I recall it is about a sixteenth so it takes a thin round piece
of rubber. once you have pulled it through the hole you can cut it off on the inside with an exacto
knife. The purpose of the taper is obviously to make it a tighter fit the more you pull through. When
you reinstall the original plug, it will hold the rubber piece in place.

You may want to put a crush washer under the plug bolt so no oil seeps out via the treads.

I think the rubber piece I used was something common around the house, but can't remember what it
was.......has worked for several years now.

Jim

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2006, 01:56:12 AM »

Thanks Techy, I will add that to the list of "possibles" and it's nice to know it actually works. How long has your fix been in place? One of the concerns I had about using something to plug the hole was the material for the plug. I know engine oil has some corrosive properties (one of the reasons, in addtion to the mess it makes of the rear wheel, I want to shut-off the auto oiler). I was considering cutting off a small segment of a bolt and slotting it for a screwdriver and running that down over the hole with some Locktite, then use the regular bolt.

Jonesy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 16, 2006, 05:05:35 AM »

Clean Engine oil doesn't corrode- it's the stuff it picks up in the motor after circulating around a few thousand miles.

The thing with using a rubber piece here is the kind of rubber and it's compatibility with oil. Some rubber parts will swell in hot engine oil. If you're worried about the plug staying in place, maybe swelling might be a good thing....

For all following this thread, a company called Metrics Unlimited offers an M14x1.25 die. You could probably custom make a new plug bolt by getting an M14x1.5 bolt and running the die over the threads. Sure, in some areas the threads will look all crossed as the die cuts through the existing threads, but since the pitches are so close, this should be minimal and this bolt only acts as a plug, and doesn't really retain any kind of significant load.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #24 on:** March 16, 2006, 05:43:41 AM »

It was the dirty contaminated oil I was thinking of. I've seen what small leaks can do to bolts over time.. unfortunately from firsthand experience.

When you think about it, the oil we use is Ph neutral in the jug only. Once it's put in at an oil change, it starts to pick-up some contaminants from oil clinging to parts and then starts moving towards acidic with each mile we ride until the next oil change.

Correction: One of the things I like about this group, the posts (of others, or your own) get you thinking and sometimes doing some research. Turns out new motor oil is slightly basic rather than Ph neutral. Though it does move toward the acidic end of the Ph scale due to moisture combining with gases, hence those short trips, particularly if combined with cold weather starts are the worst.

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Author Topic: Auto Chain Oiler (Read 4688 times)

amattel

amattel

amattel