Author Topic: Paddy - '78 CB750 - Version 3.0 Coming Soon!  (Read 84186 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #225 on: March 17, 2012, 06:01:51 am »
LesterPiglet, the gold does seem to match the tank stripe!  If I'm going to screw something up, it might as well coordinate with the rest of the bike.

cwchan, I hadn't even gotten to the point of leveraging the forum for ideas and "been there, done that" threads, so thank you for doing the research.  I'll check out the link you provided.

SOHC Digger, No kidding?!  If that's all it is, I'll be super excited.  There wasn't oil behind the #1 and #4 exhaust valve cover caps, so maybe oil orifices are plugged under each cam tower.  I've fingers crossed the issue is that high up on the motor and not in the lower end.

cben750f0, I haven't heard of priming the oil pump, so, unfortunately, I did not do that.  There was a rattling noise early in the start up yesterday (pre ride).  I thought it was coming from the clutch area.  It was likely the valve train.  Seemed to go away once the rocker arms melted to the tops of the valves. (kidding, I hope)  Thanks for the compliment on Paddy.  He looks incredible in person - I'm really proud of how he turned out . . . absent the cratered motor, that is.

Offline SohRon

  • She laughs 'til she cries when they call me an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 946
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #226 on: March 17, 2012, 07:27:56 am »
Theofam, this really sucks, but I commend your  attitude. I would be crying like a baby. As someone who had his build turn to crap at the last moment, I can relate to the frustration you're feeling. Of course, the only course of action to take now is to make the thing even better than before (big bore kit?).

Really a gorgeous bike, Theo... I'll be looking forward to its resurrection!

I'm also going out and prime my oil pump, however that's accomplished...  ;)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 07:32:33 am by SohRon »
"He slipped back down the alley with some roly-poly little bat-faced girl..."

Assembling my '74 CB550: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86697.0
Assembly of the Right-hand Switch (a rebuilder's guide):  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=80532.0
Installing stock 4X4 exhaust: CB500-CB550 K: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=82323.0
CB550 Assembly Manual: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151576.0.html

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #227 on: March 17, 2012, 10:10:00 am »
SohRon, if anyone feels my pain, it's you after your frame issue so deep into your initial build. 

I cracked up when I read your final sentence!  Glad something good came out of my issue.  I never understood the axiom "prime the pump."  Guess I do now.  If you figure out how to do it, let me know, as I'm busy tearing Paddy down.  Guess I couldn't simply walk away from the dude. 

He is indeed seized.  The kickstart lever yields nothing when pressure is applied.  I've read about using a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone to release a seized engine, but I believe that's in cases of rust binding the rings to the cylinder wall.  So, if I've seized the engine due to heat, I'm unsure how to proceed.  If anyone knows or has ideas, I'm all ears.  Otherwise, I'll troll the forum.

I've dropped the oil.  It didn't smell unusual and was still golden honey in color.  There were some very minute shavings.  Might have even been pieces of paint, because some of them disintegrated when rubbed in the oil pan.  There were also two pieces that looked almost like short hairs.  Dunno if you can see one of them in the pic.  It's between 5 and 6 o'clock at the edge of the pic.



The shiny bits are bubble wrapped and stored out of the way, along with the seat:



The air box and throttle cables are off.  Next up are the carbs, oil lines, oil tank, coils, exhaust, and anything else I think will impede engine removal using this method:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=102658




Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,143
  • Central Texas
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #228 on: March 17, 2012, 10:33:43 am »
That's the way, get right back into it! I'm sure you are so curious why this happened, so are we, most likely it is what Digger experienced too. We will learn from your misfortune.
The ATF/acetone trick is not for a seized engine, it's for a "stuck" motor (rusted rings).
I have used motor parts if you are in need.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline SOHC Digger

  • I'm not an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #229 on: March 17, 2012, 11:06:13 am »
I would recommend that you DON'T try to free your engine at this point!  If it is a siezed cam, which I would bet money on, then you are stressing the hell out of your cam chain trying to free things.  Unless you want to tear down the whole engine to replace your cam chain, take it easy and just take the top end apart!

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,890
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #230 on: March 17, 2012, 12:18:51 pm »
You're making me glad I put that frame kit in. My engine is almost done and will go into the frame soon. Too bad you gotta take your's out to check the top end. Hoping that's all there is to it. If you had pressure then the bottom is probably fine. Depends on the damage to the cam area. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #231 on: March 17, 2012, 02:38:39 pm »
Stev-O, way to offer up the mother lode of parts!  Thanks.  I may be in need.

SOHC Digger, I didn't put much pressure on it.  Enough to ensure I wasn't just on a compression stroke.  I hadn't thought about it being a cam.  If it's just that, I'll be psyched!  I've visions of piston rings melted to the cylinder walls.  No clue what I'd do then. Please, oh, please, be a frozen cam!  Can you see my toes are crossed, too?

After dropping the oil from the motor (prior to removing the oil filter), and after draining the oil tank, is it common for the oil supply line to still be filled with oil?



I guess it seems logical - it's below the oil tank and would have been the next oil to be pulled into the motor via the oil pump gear.

Things looked worse once I dropped the oil filter.  Not only did I have a bunch of the plastic media from media blasting the engine parts in there:



But the filter oil also looked like a heavy metal flake paint job:



I'm really apprehensive about what I'm going to find based on that photo.

I've removed everything necessary to drop the motor using the method I linked above. 





I don't think I'll get to it this weekend, but I'm hopeful I will this week before my kids' spring break.

Jerry, I'm still kicking myself for not adding the frame kit prior to powder coating the frame!  Sure would have made things easier.

Offline cben750f0

  • nothin draws attention like a classic bike!!
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,612
  • '75 CB750F0 Gladstone NQLD OZ
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #232 on: March 17, 2012, 03:31:44 pm »
ok that oil doesnt look good... :(

will be keeping tabs on this build...good luck M8


peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline LesterPiglet

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,046
  • 1977 CB550F2
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #233 on: March 17, 2012, 04:23:17 pm »
I'm looking at the heat spread on your paint job and hope the damage is all up top. Good luck chum.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline cmonSTART

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #234 on: March 17, 2012, 05:41:50 pm »
Sorry to hear about your troubles!  It's a really beautiful bike!
1981 GL1100 Interstate
1978 CB750F Project

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,546
  • Big ideas....
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #235 on: March 17, 2012, 07:13:32 pm »
HOLY CRAP! So sorry to hear of this. I have been lurking on your build and this is horrible news. I can totally feel your pain and frustration. Hopefully its not as bad as what it appears. Hang in there buddy!
Yeah....Holy Crap is right! Andy CB750 told me about this thread today....wow.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #236 on: March 18, 2012, 09:51:51 am »
I'll likely be dormant on this for awhile due to an upcoming vacation with the kids, but I will keep you all posted as I start the tear down.

I'll likely be leaning on all of you pretty hard for advice, and I'll be sure to post lots of pics for your viewing pleasure!

If there are any pics you guys want to see for sure, please suggest them, so I can record the state of those components.

Maybe with your brains and my hands, I can get it right this time.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,890
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #237 on: March 18, 2012, 11:27:49 am »
Hey, I have a couple petcock seals if you need them  ;) At this point it probably won't hurt to step back and regroup. Have fun with the kids!
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,143
  • Central Texas
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #238 on: March 18, 2012, 12:17:39 pm »
You headed back to the slopes?   I'm headed to Florida...
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #239 on: March 18, 2012, 01:01:23 pm »
Jerry, running those petcock grommets down to you was probably my best ride on Paddy.  I had a blast taking Godzilla up Pikes Peak!  I still think it's the highest altitude he has hit so far (absent the plane ride to NZ).

Stev-O, the snow out here sucks - not a good year.  So, we're not heading back up unless some miraculous dumps occur.  It's been north of 50 degrees in the mountains over a week straight.  Ice in the AM, slush in the PM.  Have a blast in Florida!

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,172
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #240 on: March 18, 2012, 07:35:51 pm »
J
Stev-O, the snow out here sucks - not a good year.  So, we're not heading back up unless some miraculous dumps occur.
Be careful what you wish for; there were 2" of snow on the ground here this morning, and it snowed off and on all day, and from the weather reports, it's headed your way. They got 2' north of Flagstaff!!!
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Stev-o

  • Ain't no
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 34,143
  • Central Texas
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #241 on: March 18, 2012, 08:46:39 pm »
I think that system is headed this way. We're expecting 2-7" of rain Monday night and flash flood watches are already out.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #242 on: March 19, 2012, 08:53:20 pm »
Scottly, my scariest ride ever was on sleet that turned to snowpack on my way down Arizona Pass outside Flagstaff on my way to Laughlin. Cars off the road, no visibility. It was nuts!  I'd rather ski it than ride it.

Offline dagersh

  • "A country attempting to tax itself into prosperity is akin to a man standing in a bucket attempting to lift that bucket by its handle. - Winston Churchill"
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,010
    • Photos
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #243 on: March 20, 2012, 10:48:24 am »
TF,

I hated seeing what happened here.  I will be looking forward to seeing your repair and revival of ths beautiful bike. 

I really hope its just the top end.

Gersh
1962 CA95
1966 Black Bomber
1966 CA77 Dream
1967 Superhawk
1970 CB750K0
1972 CL350
1972 CB450/500 Custom
1972 CB500K1
1975 CB550F
1976 CB400F
1975 CB750 Future Restoration
1976 CB750K6
1976 CB750F
1976 GL1000


1968 Suzuki T500 Cobra
1990 BMW K1
2001 'Busa
2003 RC 51
Bunch of Guzzi's

http://www.sohc4.us/gallery/v/members/personal/dagersh/

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #244 on: March 20, 2012, 02:56:56 pm »
Gersh,

It helps to know folks like you are pulling for me!  I hope it's the top end, too.

Some guys on here have posted engine removal via the jackstand/2x4 method, so I thought I'd try it out.  As is the case with most of my work, I take estimated time to perform a job and triple it - still wasn't enough.  After about three hours, I had it out:



Transferred it to the motorcycle jack:



And now it's up on my workbench awaiting my son's arrival from school to help me get it on the engine stand. 

Looks like tomorrow will begin the teardown.  Here's to hoping it's a mystery quickly solved!!


Offline Greggo

  • Somebody's
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,164
  • Helmets Save Lives. Period.
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #245 on: March 20, 2012, 04:28:31 pm »
Keep your chin up..We're definitely rooting for you Man!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:02:39 am by Greggo »

Offline theofam

  • I'm cold, give me a
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • Suffering from MDD - Mechanical Deficit Disorder
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - Frozen Cam?!
« Reply #246 on: March 21, 2012, 10:40:38 am »
I popped off the valve cover this morning.  Kind of felt like a morbid gift opening.  You don't want to unwrap it, but you just gotta see what's inside.

What's wrong?  The 3 & 4 side looks like it was getting oil:



Oh.  That's what's wrong.  1 & 2 are bone dry:



Whoa!  I don't remember bluing on the rockers.  They must have been damn near glowing!  Man, these rocker shafts on 1 & 2 aren't coming out!  Maybe if I give them a turn with a big flathead until . . . they. . . break . . . loose.  There we go.  They're loose, but still very tight.



Hmm.  I wonder if that's why the motor couldn't spin?  Is that what the fellas meant by a "frozen cam?"  Now that the rockers are off, let's drop the transmission and alternator covers to get to the crankshaft to see if the motor will spin now.



Whew, it still spins!  No clunks or unusual noises, either!  Can't wait to tell the guys.

Wonder what kind of damage was done to the cam and cam tower journals by running it that dry?  Looks like a new cam tower and cam are in order!







Let's get the cam towers off to see how the oil injectors look.

The 3 & 4 injector looks clean.



The 1 & 2 injector is gunked up, though.



But it cleaned out real easily with carb cleaner, so was it really the issue impeding oil flow?  Is it the cause or a symptom?  (This is where you experts jump in and clue me in to what your experiences tell you).

I'm off to remove the head and will check back in awhile.

Offline LesterPiglet

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,046
  • 1977 CB550F2
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #247 on: March 21, 2012, 10:52:51 am »
Is 1 and 2 just oil? 3and 4 bone dry pointing to something before those injectors.

Edit. Hmm, have I got that in reverse?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:11:28 pm by LesterPiglet »
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline SOHC Digger

  • I'm not an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,171
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #248 on: March 21, 2012, 11:10:06 am »
I'm certain you found the root of the problem!!!  For you, a frozen cam is a blessing!

BTW, you could have tried turning the engine over by pulling the points cover instead.

I wouldn't be pulling the head, but that's just me.  Clean the orifi, get a new cam, tower, rockers, etc., and put it back together!

Offline Greggo

  • Somebody's
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,164
  • Helmets Save Lives. Period.
Re: Paddy - '78 CB750 - EPIC FAIL!
« Reply #249 on: March 21, 2012, 11:34:38 am »
Have you dropped the oil pan yet?  Any shavings?  I don't qualify as an expert mechanic, but judging by the extreme temps needed to char your engine paint, I'd say the head has to be pulled and checked for spec...after all, this looked like you were going for a high quality rebuild.  Slapping it back together doesn't seem to be the prudent move.