Topic: For good or bad....I now own a "Sandcast"

[techy5025]

WAH WHO.....I now have a mate for my diecast....a sandcast.  The diecast is in
much better shape, but the sandcast is salvageable....and is running...just a
lot of rust from storage. Most of the pricey parts are there but need tender
loving care and "American Express" help.

What drives us to want these old machines?  My guess is they give us a link
with our past and we can't stand to see them ignored and neglected.

At least now when I get ready to put it back together I'll have another bike
to compare it too.

Jim

[Bob Wessner]

Congratulations! How about a picture?

[techy5025]

Promiise not to laugh at the price....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4619758063&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Jim

[Bob Wessner]

She will be a nice one when you're done. Good luck and keep us updated as you progress through the process. 

[techy5025]

Thanks Bob.  Actually, I could probably streamline the notification of progress just by giving
you guys a summary of my bank account....as it plunges. 

Jim

[toycollector10]

Good one Jim, I noticed that the seller hadn't listed it as sandcast. He didn't know. There's heaps of spares out there. Good luck and keep us posted as to how it comes along...I paid $5211 for a good diecast so you have done really well. New carbs and a good tootie up and you are off!!!!...

[techy5025]

Toy collector,

I looked at the bike before I bid on it.  Believe me, by the time the ad was on
ebay for one hour, the seller knew it was a sandcast!

Good gosh...I just realized that now I get to go through another set of the old
original carbs .... probably with leaky brass floats.    But I'm sure I can count on
our resident carb expert for help.....where are you Bob?   

Jim

[mrbreeze]

You probably didn't get hammered cash wise for a true sandcast but what are you going to do...ride or restore?Man....if it was me and I had another to ride,I would just restore the sandcast slowly and meticulously.Keep the the die cast to ride.Damn,it's like having a 1909 penny thats worth crazy amounts of cash.Good luck whatever you do with it.

[GeoffT]

I'm with MrBreeze on the restore job if you've got a similar ride. 
What I don't understand on the ebay thing is 'harleyandshannon' upping the bid by $1500 to $3500 then increasing their own bid 5 times within ten minutes to $4900 when no one else seems to have been didding at that time.
Whats that all about???

[Raul CB750K1]

I'm with MrBreeze on the restore job if you've got a similar ride.
What I don't understand on the ebay thing is 'harleyandshannon' upping the bid by $1500 to $3500 then increasing their own bid 5 times within ten minutes to $4900 when no one else seems to have been didding at that time.
Whats that all about???

That's called self-bidding. Either you with another account or a friend bids on your article to jack up the price. It's like setting a reserve price without having to pay the fee.

Well, I don't know wether to give you my congratulations or my sympathy. 6 grand is way too much for a non running bike. You have to repaint the tank, headlight ears and shell, as well as getting new sidecovers and a new -and unobtainable- red airbox. I hope the tank is the wrinkle type.

This is what I would do if I were you: rebuild the engine, repaint the frame -if it has to bo done-, take the body parts to paint and get yourself some replica sidecovers. Once the painter matches the color he will spray the sidecovers for just a little bit more. Replace the recessed ignition, the non-lip front mudguard and the short chainguard for K1 items, and ride it with pride. If you restore it to showroom condition you will end up with a 15-20 grand bike that you will  never ride. I hope you have a big living room to store it.


When the time comes, or while it comes, get the spare parts you need -original if possible- and keep them for the day you decide to restore it. If you finally never do, you can seel the bike and the parts for almost the same price as if it was actually restored.

It takes a lot of determination to risk 6 grand on a bike like that. Even when you hear tells you that a sandcast is such a rarity that will sell anytime for that price, I bet your head is asking you wether you were sure about what you were doing.

Raul

[Gordon]

What I don't understand on the ebay thing is 'harleyandshannon' upping the bid by $1500 to $3500 then increasing their own bid 5 times within ten minutes to $4900 when no one else seems to have been didding at that time.
Whats that all about???

Harleyandshannon was bidding against rrazor's $5,000 proxy bid.  The bid history is arranged by time placed.  rrazor put in his bid at 7:20 AM, then harleyandshannon started his bidding at 5:08 PM the same day, but never bid more than than rrazor's because he had reached his limit before topping the higher proxy bid. 

[dusterdude]

OMG!!!!

[bill440cars]

   Jim,
      That's quite a bit to spend but then that's quite a bike. I couldn't swing it but I'm glad you could.
   What Raul said makes alot of sense, gathering parts as you can, taking your time (when you do start
   restoring it). I know there's alot to do but, from the pictures, we've seen alot worse. You've got
   quite an investment there. Good luck with it and I hope you'll post some photos as you go.         
                                                       Later on, Bill 

[GeoffT]

Cheers Guys

Gordon that seems to make sense. Was just puzzled coz I don't use ebay much except for looking at sohc stuff.

Jim, if its worth the money for you then its a bargain no matter what anyone sais. We all know if we buy one of these machines for fun then we accept that we are always going to be putting our hand in our pocket. After all its only money.

Enjoy the bike. There will always be someone who wished they had it instead of you.  

[martini]

Congrats! $6000 is a bargain if you ask me. I paid close to that for my diecast. Once you get that puppy restored you'll have a bike worth 3-4x what you paid for it. Nice having the diecast while the restoration takes place. Have fun!

[Raul CB750K1]

We all know if we buy one of these machines for fun then we accept that we are always going to be putting our hand in our pocket. After all its only money.

That is true, but the fun comes also when we talk about DISPOSABLE money. You need guts and determination not to make a 6 grand mistake.

Congrats! $6000 is a bargain if you ask me. I paid close to that for my diecast. Once you get that puppy restored you'll have a bike worth 3-4x what you paid for it. Nice having the diecast while the restoration takes place. Have fun!

Don't forget that the price of things are determined when you match a) the value of the thing for the seller and b) how much someone is willing to pay. For example, I have a mint, unrestored CB750K1. I've seen advertising of K2-K5 selling for 5.000 euro that stay for months in the magazines. So, when the day comes for me to sell the bike, how much is it worth? I honestly believe that it is worth somewhere between 7.000-9000 (original HM300 pipes, original seat, original sidecovers, and furthermore, very rare in Spain), but I can tell you that if I ask that for the bike it will remain unsold for months if not years. You can have a bunch of better bikes for 9.000 euros, and there are not many people with the whim of owning a CB750 K1 and 9.000 euros of disposable income...


Raul

[Gordon]

That is true, but the fun comes also when we talk about DISPOSABLE money. You need guts and determination not to make a 6 grand mistake.

How do you know six grand isn't "disposable income" for techy?  Just a couple of years ago the $250 I paid for my K1 was a real sacrifice, but today I could drop way more than that without thinking twice.  It's all relative. 

Nice score, Techy!  I'm glad it went to someone on this forum.  

[my78k]

I know I'm risking a few Karma points on this one but I just gotta ask...what is it with some people around here lately???

I have been hanging around this site for some time and even the Greenspun forums before that (mostly lurking as I was so new to the SOHC game) but it seems that we all used to be way more supportive.

Not looking to take shots at anyone here but if  Techy (or anyone for that matter!) wants to spend 6 grand on a bike then so be it.

I for one am glad to see this bike go to a guy who is planning on fixing it up and not parting it out like alot of other people would. Money is only money....if spending 6 grand on a true classic makes you happy then friggin do it! Whether you get around to doing the resto or not you'll be able to say that you own that Sandcast regardless.

I'm not going to rain on your parade Techy...quite the opposite. I'm glad your happy with your investment! There are certainly worse things you could do with your money (like hang on to it for your kids to squander once you're gone!!!)

Anyways, enough of my ranting...

[martini]

Well said My78k!

[eldar]

standing O  78K!

[GeoffT]

78k - you said it far better than I could express the sentiment. Like yourself I paid a few hundred for my ride and could only just afford it at the time but the opportunity arose and I took it.

Far from getting negative Karma you just got a positive.

[bill440cars]

   Hey, I totally agree. I was just saying there was no way that I could afford it a nd I too am glad that someone on this forum picked up on it. There are too many classic bikes and cars that are being junked out or crushed. It really gets to me to see them wasted. I like to see the stock restored bikes but, I also like to see the customs build from those that aren't in very good shape because at least they are in good shape and being taken care of. I'm glad that another "Sandcast" is in good hands. Later on, Bill

[techy5025]

Actually...that cargo box on the rear hid some more treasures...one of which was the
RED AIRBOX.     The only thing really missing are the two side panels. 

The bike was ripe for someone to part out and I was not going to let that happen (bid
wise).  I  didn't buy it for a museum piece, however, so once complete it will spend some
time back on the road.

The temptation is to take the needed parts from the diecast to restore the sandcast, but
that will not happen to a bike I have owned for over 35 years.

So why are there no red side panels on ebay when I need them? 

Jim

[bill440cars]

  I know that was a relief to find the airbox and whatever else. Especially if the air box is as expensive as I've heard. I'll bet that did seem like a treasure chest. Later on, Bill

[GroovieGhoulie]

Awesome find.  I'm jealous.

How hard are K0 carbs to find?  I know they can't be too common being only in production for one year.

[toycollector10]

It's a great buy!

Think about cost versus value in terms of pride of ownership. Even when you are writing out checks you won't regret it, and as it slowly comes together you will just keep feeling better and better.

I've paid the best part of $10,000 to get my diecast how I want it and it has been the best money I have ever spent. Does anyone think I should have put in a new kitchen with that money?,  Gone for a cruise?,  New carpet for the house??

And I'm browsing at the library today and there on the shelf is a large hardcover book called "The Encyclopedia of the Motorcycle" and the cover photo is a Candy Ruby Red diecast just like mine, front shot, and on the back, the rear view. Fantastic, I won't wind up in an old folks home in my rocking chair thinking to myself,"#$%*, I should have bought one of those", 'cos I've got one.

[Bob Wessner]

How hard are K0 carbs to find?

They occasionally show up on eBay from time to time, but usually with the old tag "sandcast" and ridiculous bids.

[techy5025]

I think there is a set on Ebay right now.   The only think I worry about on those
old carbs is the brass floats.  They get pinholes in them and sink as the gas fills
them.  The later ones have plastic (phenolic?) floats.  As Bob said in a post awhile back,
you can keep the old carbs and use the new floats in them as the fit is the same.   No
one can tell without pulling off the bowls.

I have no idea if the floats in the Sandcast are good or not....just part of the
discovery process.   It was running so I suspect they are.

One of the more interesting things the prior owner told me was that because he knew
nothing about bikes,  he took it to the local Honda dealer to get it serviced.  If it hadn't
been for the badge on one side of the tank they wouldn't have known what it was. 
The bike was older than the whole shop.    Needless to say except for changing the
plugs, he didn't get much help.  Points....what's that!   

Jim

[Bob Wessner]

you can keep the old carbs and use the new floats in them as the fit is the same.

Actually, I'm not sure. I guess they would fit, but I wonder if it might require some fiddling on the float height measurement. The brass floats and soldered seams are going to be heavier and presumably sit lower in the fuel in the bowl. Wouldn't the plastic ones float higher?? Have never tried it, had enough trouble with the ones I have, but maybe someone can comment on this.

[techy5025]

Bob,

Just for you,  I will perform an experiment using one brass and one plastic
float and measure the difference in "sink depth".  I'll compare the dimensions
of each also.

I would only do this for the "carb master" you understand!   

Jim

[Bob Wessner]

There you go, one Karma in advance and another after you have completed the experiment. 

[Raul CB750K1]

I know I'm risking a few Karma points on this one but I just gotta ask...what is it with some people around here lately???

I have been hanging around this site for some time and even the Greenspun forums before that (mostly lurking as I was so new to the SOHC game) but it seems that we all used to be way more supportive.

Not looking to take shots at anyone here but if  Techy (or anyone for that matter!) wants to spend 6 grand on a bike then so be it.

I for one am glad to see this bike go to a guy who is planning on fixing it up and not parting it out like alot of other people would. Money is only money....if spending 6 grand on a true classic makes you happy then friggin do it! Whether you get around to doing the resto or not you'll be able to say that you own that Sandcast regardless.

I'm not going to rain on your parade Techy...quite the opposite. I'm glad your happy with your investment! There are certainly worse things you could do with your money (like hang on to it for your kids to squander once you're gone!!!)

Anyways, enough of my ranting...

I didn't intend to rain in anybody's parade. The fact that he said "don't laugh at the amount" and some comments about how his credit card will suffer made me think that he was not really sure wether he had made a good purchase, and he was maybe asking for some approval. I've already said that it take guts to buy a bike like that for 6 grand, and it goes without saying that anybody can make with his hard earned money whatever they want. If he is happy with his purchase then I'm happy -does it make any difference?-, I just dropped my impressions about what the restoration will be like. Owning a sandcast can be like owning a Picasso: more a curse than a blessing. You will be forced to spend huges amount of money on parts that, for other bikes, will be just a tenth of the price. And you will have to do it because otherwise your bike will not be a "truly" sandcast.


I think I would haven't buy it for that amount. Sandcasts are worth more for it's scarcity than for its performance. I bet you will almost never ride it, but you surely will ride your K1. I can't put a price to the pride of ownership. I used to have it high before, but now I give more importance to the pride of enjoying.


In other subject, I'm as happy that the bike ended up in forum member's hands than if it ended up in a complete stranger's. I'm not a bike saviour. When Mr. Honda made his bikes he never pretended that they would last forever. If somebody would have bought the bike to sell it in parts many people would be so happy that they will get some parts they have been looking for a long time. Of course, when Techy will post the pictures of the finished build I will congratulate him with envy on the final product, but I won't envy all the grief he's about to suffer. Just like anybody who have restored a bike knows. The good thing is that the process of restoring a bike is a test of your personal traits.

Raul

[6pkrunner]

Congrats!! They aren't making any more of them so its money well spent. Good luck on the resto, and yes, post lots of pictures - and not of your bank balance. That one we can figure out.

[techy5025]

The only difference between the K0 and the K0 sandcast is the engine which
is running and doesn't look too bad.  I haven't picked up the sandcast yet but
my prebid inspection showed that rechroming will be a large part of the repairs.
Some stuff you just give up on and get new....such as the mirrors.  I've been
through most of the restore stuff with the K0 so hopefully no big surprises.

I'm not headed for a 100 point restore here....99.9 percent will do.   

My motorcycle toy budget expanded greatly when I sold the airplane.  I can't
imagine this being a bigger sink than that.   

Jim

[toycollector10]

Instead of a 'hangar queen', you now have a 'garage queen' 

[neilbron]

Hey Jim,

Nice pickup! One thing I like about it is the history that comes with it - call me sentimental but I think anything we "own" and cherish (and there's always the view that were only caretakers in our lifetime) is more valued if we know it's history.

You have a good idea of where the bike has been and who has owned it. The story is often as interesting as the item itself. My Dad's 30 odd McCormick Deering tractor collection is mostly fascinating because of the story which goes with each one - where it worked, who owned it, how he heard about it and finally bought and restored it.

Enjoy it and let us share in some of your trials and tribulations.

Cheers,

Neil.

[elisent]

Techy, I have a sandcast also and a 70 diecast. I've collected bikes for many years and you did fine. The days of finding a sandcast cheap are pretty much over. In my opinion sandcasts will go up in value way faster than most other Asian Bikes. CB 750s were made in huge numbers and I think affordable riders will be available for years to come. Performance has little to do with collectability. 750s made all other bikes before it antiques. It was as far as I'm concerned, the most defining moment in motorcycle evolution, in at least the last 60 years. It impacted every motorcycle after it in some way. This is what collectors love. It's the story.  First year "factory correct" restoration on a bike like yours will always be very desirable.  My advise for whatever it's worth, is to ,don't skimp, take your time, learn every little detail you can and do it right and have fun. If you want just a nice rider buy a later bike. Check out CB750sandcastonly.com great sandcast experts on this site. Late # sandcasts are actually closer to diecasts in parts. Early like yours have some really weird details specific to low # sandcasts and Unobtainable parts if you need them, but that's what makes your bike a special part of motrcycle history.  In the long run you have an appreciating asset that is much more fun to own than stocks.  Side covers are still being made. Ruby Red NOS covers show up on Ebay  at $400.00-$600.00. If your painting the bike don't bother. 

I'm really impressed with the spot on comments and reactions to your post.  Of course $6000.00 is alot of money and we all would be nervous and seak comments to reasure are selves that we did the right thing. When I first got into Indians I paid what people already in the hobby would consider a little to high for my first bike. I learned alot and now the sidecar that was thrown in the deal is worth more than I have into the bike. Good luck and if I can be of any help please write at elisent@comcast.net  afew PICs of my 750s are at geocities.com/indian440