Topic: My kids getting a bit bullied at school

[seebee7fiftee]

We've got a lot of stoner white trash rednecks here. I can say that because I was raised as one, I just try to not let it show that much.

CUTTTTTTERSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

haha just kidding, I would avoid the violence route unless it is last resort. I spent my younger years in el paso texas and was one of the only white kids at my school. I got bullied alot and finally started standing up for myself.......all it got me was my first supension at a very very young age. Now they can bring the law in and it could turn into a huge deal. I hate bullies, HATE bullies.................. but id hate to see your son get screwed by a dumb law even more.

[DavePhipps]

I was bullied pretty regularly in high school.  My only real solution was to live with it until I graduated... then I moved 1,500 miles away and privately laughed to myself watching all the bullies' lives slowly dissolve into muck from the safety and privacy of Facebook. 

I think at least half of it for your son is knowing that Dad cares about him.  It's a lot rougher when one or both of a kid's parents pick at them, too.

My dad sat me down and said "High school isn't your entire life, in fact it's usually 4 years of Hell for most people.  It doesn't last forever, though. "  Then the conversation turned to how dumb people both fail to have a sense of humor, AND don't like to be informed of how dumb they are... etc, etc, because my mouth got me in trouble a lot. 

That sounds almost exactly like part of my conversation with my son this afternoon

[swellguy]

The thing is your kid is 13 and that's really the beginning of adult life. Schools take bullying seriously these days and most have a zero tolerance for it. I would call his teacher, his principal and the school counselor tomorrow and tell THEM it has to stop and find out what they are going to do about it.

We'd all like to play internet tough but if your kid takes a swing after receiving five punches, he too will be expelled and have a note in his record that will follow him for the next six or more years.

And yes, I'd talk to the other kid's parents, not in a confrontational way but one thst says you're also concerned about their kid not getting into any/further trouble. If you get any attitude or indifference from them, talk to the cops…seriously. Most departments have a school liason/officer whose job it is to be involved in these things.

You're obvioisly a caring and involved parent and these days this is what you have to do. As much as it'd be great to have your kid flatten a bully, you just don't know who is carrying a piece or a shiv and these things can blow up so quickly unless addressed asap.

I've got two teenage girls and I've had to get involved in their affairs on several occaisions to avoid further escalating conflict at their schools.

[Gordon]

All I can really say on the subject is based on my own experience with bullies.  I have always been relatively small, and in my younger years the size difference was exaggerated, so I was an obvious target for these kind.  The persistent ones stick out.  In grade school I dealt with them by fighting.  In spite of my size I have always been tough.  I guess having an older brother probably helped with that.  One I sucker-punched in the back of the head while standing in line.  The other I met after school in the playground and beat his ass.  I got in trouble with the school for both, but neither ever bothered me again, and my parents only gave me a talk.  

In middle school I was in 7th grade and the bully was an 8th grader.  I got fed up with the bull#$%* and finally challenged him to meet me after school.  He showed up with two friends.  I told him to take the first punch, and he just stood there making excuses.  I finally walked away and he never even looked me in the eye in the hall again.  

In high school I had plenty of friends.  The bully was much bigger than me and could have kicked my ass, but he knew what would happen if he did.  

Demonstrated confidence will scare off most bullies, and will get you friends who will help scare off the rest.    

[Retro Rocket]

We'd all like to play internet tough but if your kid takes a swing after receiving five punches, he too will be expelled and have a note in his record that will follow him for the next six or more years.

I find it hard to swallow that considering it would be self defence if he was in the work place, since when was defending yourself a crime..?
I think schools are a law unto themselves and i don't think they teach very good "life experience", even in court if your kid punched back after receiving 5 hits he would get justice....not suspension ..

Mick

[Frankenkit]

We'd all like to play internet tough but if your kid takes a swing after receiving five punches, he too will be expelled and have a note in his record that will follow him for the next six or more years.

I find it hard to swallow that considering it would be self defence if he was in the work place, since when was defending yourself a crime..?
I think schools are a law unto themselves and i don't think they teach very good "life experience", even in court if your kid punched back after receiving 5 hits he would get justice....not suspension ..

Mick

Mick, we've had kids expelled here for bringing pictures of guns to school.  Not that this is about guns, but schools go absolutely NUTS over every little thing here.  Kids haven't been treated like kids for quite some time.

[Retro Rocket]

We'd all like to play internet tough but if your kid takes a swing after receiving five punches, he too will be expelled and have a note in his record that will follow him for the next six or more years.

I find it hard to swallow that considering it would be self defence if he was in the work place, since when was defending yourself a crime..?
I think schools are a law unto themselves and i don't think they teach very good "life experience", even in court if your kid punched back after receiving 5 hits he would get justice....not suspension ..

Mick

Mick, we've had kids expelled here for bringing pictures of guns to school.  Not that this is about guns, but schools go absolutely NUTS over every little thing here.  Kids haven't been treated like kids for quite some time.

Don't feel special, the same happens here. These kids learn to hate authority and disrespect adults at an early age......In Australia we have a shortage of male teachers so a lot of young boys have no role models and the women teachers {not all} are quite #$%*y.
Some of these teachers have been making decisions for kids for so long that they make childish decisions, there is a big lack of respect for the kids and in some cases,a whining kid only has to make a petty baseless  complaint and the teachers take away all privileges for the kid that has been "told" on,  without even asking the guilty kid if he has even said anything. My son was sent home from school for giving a Nazi salute to his teacher, behind her back, the woman that saw it was an office worker and not even a teacher. I took my son back to school to see the headmaster that sent him home and all i had to do was ask my son if he would do a Nazi salute, after an awkward silence i told the stupid headmaster that my son doesn't even know what a friggin Nazi salute is and you {He} never even bothered to ask him........Pathetic........

Mick

[rhos1355]

There's a couple of things you need to explain to your kid. Firstly is that appeasement does not work; the bully will get more and more confident that he will get away with it and that might end up in serious injury to your kid. Bullies are cowards, confront them like you mean it, preferably in front of their mates and they'll generally back down and loose face. But this is also a double edged sword. The bully might get back at your kid later twice as viciously. So he (your kid) will have to pummell the sh*t outa him, and if he himself gets pummelled make sure he gets a couple of good shots in.
Take your kid to a boxing gym. A couple of punches on the nose will make him realise that yes, it fcuking hurts, but it's not like you're gonna die. That will make him get used to the pain and hence increase his confidence.
I was very fortunate as a teen-ager. I went to a Catholic school. Bullying was just not tolerated, not by the priests themselves, but by the older lads, strangely enough. When my year became seniors we just carried on that tradition. Furthermore we had to play rugby every day of the winter season, come sun, rain or wind. I quickly found I enjoyed getting my own back on someone that's p*ssed me off, in the ruck or maul. It soon got around to leave me be.
I did become a target years later when working with a construction company, a group of them started making snide comments whenever I was around and other practical jokes. One evening after a particularly bad day already, I had to go bback to the mess and these fcuk-wits were all sitting around grinning at me, the ring-leader said something smart-alec, and before I could stop my-self I snapped and just jumped him. He backed off, and could never live it down in front of his 'mates'. He left a couple of months later. End of.

[Really?]

I was very fortunate as a teen-ager. I went to a Catholic school. Bullying was just not tolerated, not by the priests themselves, but by the older lads, strangely enough.

The school I had issues with the two bullies was in a catholic high school.  The priests could care less.  But I did have to go for counseling with one of the priests like it was my fault.  I swear, I think he really wanted to fondle me, seriously, not joking!

That one school year was the worst.  I had straight F's throughout the year, why care?  Naturally i was kicked off the school baseball team and guess what, I still hate regular sports with the highest passion.

I dropped out of HS and got my GED, five HS's later.  I didn't care and guess what, the shool work was easy, I knew it and I could do it with ease.  I was not dumb.  Did I go to college?  No!  Did it screw up my continuing education? Yes!  Did it affect how my life turned out? Yes!  Did it affect my income for years to come? Yes!  Do I now have a fantastic wife and 3 great kids?  Yes!  Would give them up? NO!

The next few years were rough because I had done a complete 180.  I was a prick, an azzhole, I dressed & acted like Judd Nelson in the Breakfast Club, I stole, attacked people, got drunk, did drugs, always involved with the cops, felt invincible, did time (8 felony counts) and on and on and on.  So those two bullies had a major impact on my life for years after.  The time straightened me out a lot and have been basically back to normal since then but I still hold a grudge, 32 years later.

This bullying crap can change the person being bullied.  It did me and changed the entire course of my life.

Help your kid out to make the right decisions, I know that is what you want in your heart.  It is great that you are there with them, they need the assist.  Mine did not assist me through it, I dealt with it on my own and you see where that got me.

[Duke McDukiedook]

So in your case the bullied became the bully, at least you batted for the cycle.

[Hush]

Enroll him in a martial arts class, doesn't matter which style really but I do reccommend Shotokan myself.
It's not what he will learn to DO but what he will learn to AVOID that counts and once he is past this small part of his life he may go on with his MA studies and make it a life long thing.
Both my kids did Karate from about 8 years old and my son is still a practicing Black Belt as I am.
It was really good for them both and kept them from entering bad situations, a good instructor will teach evading an oponent before attack any day.

[Really?]

So in your case the bullied became the bully, at least you batted for the cycle.

Since you put it that way, yes, I became the bully.  Never realized it until you said that.

Made me think of this guy that would walk by my house.  I usually shot him in the back of the legs with a pelet rifle.  He would come back and we would fight.  This happened about three days a week, the walking by and fighting part.

One night this guy and I cleared out this other guys fridge and freezer with thier own trash bags while most of the family were sleeping.  His dad drove up late and saw us.  He chased us in his truck shooting.  We lost him, went back for the bags, ate (we had the munchies).  The next day, we handed the kid that lived there, the bones from the Thanksgiving turkey we took.

That guy was with, ripped off a dealer.  After he was outside, the dealer came out with a gun.  They both shot at each other and the dealer died.  The guy I was with went to folsom for life.

All of this is a smiggin' of what went on in my life the next four or five years.

[supersports400]

Hi,

As a father of two young children, I would suggest talking to the parents of the other kid, done best at school with a teacher as intervention. Be careful and try to get a good view of the situation. Try to understand exactly why and what, and don't be blind for the situation where your kid is maybe also a part of the issue. I don't say it is, but try to stay reasonable also to the behavior of the other kid.

Most issue's are solved with a simple phone-call, and if you are not the type who stays emotional stable, I suggest that you're wife is calling the fisrt time.

This is what I should do :

- first call the teacher of his class, just to inform him about the situation, also inform him about the steps you want to take (calling the parents of the kid).
- call the parent of the other kid and explain the situation as is, and don't be influenced with your emotions, and don't point fingers.
- suggest that the parents talk to their kid and ask for feedback of that conversation.

If that doesn't work, ask the teacher on what steps to take, but always try to downsize the issue, it worked with me most of the times.

[Duke McDukiedook]

That kind of stuff may work in the Netherlands Jensen, but odds are it won't work here. The public schools here pretty much have their hands full and don't want to try and deal with problems such as these. Maybe if you personally knew the parents (and if they are known to be rational beings) it might work, but these types of efforts usually backfire on you here in the states.

If you are gonna recommend shotokan Hush I would recommend jeet kun do over shotokan, it is more of a comprehensive art and doesn't confine the participant to a few katas and punches and throws. It allows for more personalizing of the style that works best for you.

[sangyo soichiro]

I dont think he has time to get his black belt and besides, this is not the karate kid. Heres my 2 cents. I was picked on plenty in Jr high. I realized that win or lose I would rather fight than continually be hurt without fighting back. The bullies I fought were not looking for a fight despite what they may say. They are looking for approval from their friends. If you get them into a fight it takes all the fun out of it for them. They move on to easier targets. I disagree about letting the guy hit him first. He gets hit first he will likely lose. I suggest he wait to get his fill, punch him directly in the nose and let nature take its course. You get blood in someones eyes and it really diminishes their interest in fighting. generally there are a few punches and then a whole lot of roling around on the ground until someone breaks it up. then off to the office to sort it out. this is not hollywood and chuck norris cant help him now.

I agree with this 100%!

I think martial arts are overrated - watch the MMA/UFC fights and that is the stuff that works.  The old-fashioned fancy movie stuff will get your ass kicked.  I also wanted to say (like Roach did) to not let the other guy hit you first - that's another good way to get your ass kicked.  The best thing (if it comes to a fight) is to march right up to him, say not a single word, and land at least one good shot in a place that counts (nose, jaw, throat, etc.).

The only thing I can think to add is this; if by chance your son loses the fight, tell your son to not get up and act like a loser.  Instead, get up, get right back in the kid's face, and say, "If you keep messing with me, we will do this again, and next time I will beat your ass."  If he does that, he may have lost the fight, but he would have won the battle.

[Raef]

I agree with Jensen on the no Drama. I press for the no drama at work, home and practice to the point a had no drama shirts printed

Mark

[seebee7fiftee]

[/quote]

I agree with this 100%!

I think martial arts are overrated - watch the MMA/UFC fights and that is the stuff that works.  The old-fashioned fancy movie stuff will get your ass kicked. 
[/quote]

In MMA they train for years in Muay Thai, Judo, and Jiu Jitsu, all very old martial arts. I would recommend getting him started in Muay Thai. I know there are some places that teach Jiu Jitsu in Bedford but im not sure about Muay Thai near Bloomington.

[Really?]

[Duke McDukiedook]

Throwing the first punch may work well in a bar fight but it will get you thrown in jail for assault anywhere else.

I strongly recommend against telling your kid to throw the first punch, if he has the proper training unless the kid throws a sucker punch he will be able to defend himself properly.

[tango911]

he should just be ready anytime for the Idiot bully, and avoid if possible, after that, BOOM!!

Really tho, good luck with the problem. Hopefully nothing happens.

[DavePhipps]

OK the planis wait a few days to see if this blows over. Call the school to inform thm of the situation. This is called CYA cover your A$$.
I want to make that if there is a fight they have a record of me stating that my son is being harrassed by another student.
I have told my son to avoid the other guy, but if he stuck in a situation where he needs to defend himself do so.
I have also told him not to be the agressor, the only reason to fight would be to defend himself or defend someone else.

[tango911]

OK the planis wait a few days to see if this blows over. Call the school to inform thm of the situation. This is called CYA cover your A$$.
I want to make that if there is a fight they have a record of me stating that my son is being harrassed by another student.
I have told my son to avoid the other guy, but if he stuck in a situation where he needs to defend himself do so.
I have also told him not to be the agressor, the only reason to fight would be to defend himself or defend someone else.

perfect

[sangyo soichiro]

I agree with this 100%!

I think martial arts are overrated - watch the MMA/UFC fights and that is the stuff that works.  The old-fashioned fancy movie stuff will get your ass kicked.

In MMA they train for years in Muay Thai, Judo, and Jiu Jitsu, all very old martial arts. I would recommend getting him started in Muay Thai. I know there are some places that teach Jiu Jitsu in Bedford but im not sure about Muay Thai near Bloomington.

In MMA the fighters cross train in many areas, but they don't waste their time with the stuff that doesn't work.  I took Tae Kwon Do when I was 7, but have never seen a MMA fighter throw one of those stupid punches they taught us to throw.  Muay Thai is more like boxing except the legs, knees, and elbows are also allowed.  This is a real fighting sport, not a "look pretty while kicking at air" sport.  Judo is also a real fighting sport, as is Jiu Jitsu (the Brazilian kind - the Japanese kind (Steven Segal style) is not).  The MMA guys more times than not are also versed in regular boxing (still nothing better than boxing IMO for learning how to throw a punch), and also wrestling.  The MMA guys might know how to throw the fancy kicks, but the opportunity hardly ever comes up in their fights.  And I have only seen a few that did the Judo throws.  Most of the time it is the basic controlled pugilism and leg kicks mixed with wrestling and submission defense.

Anyway, in my opinion (and that's all it is), if you really want to learn to defend yourself, you need to find a gym where they train in MMA, and you need to practice a lot.  

But in all seriousness, the kid is what... 13?  A basic boxing lesson will suffice.  Don't confuse him with takedowns and throws, a few punches and practice will do the job.  And I mean good punches - I'm always surprised how very few people know how to throw a proper punch.  Learn the basic boxing punches like the jab, the straight right/left, cross, hook, and uppercut.  And don't try to make every punch a knockout - that's a common rookie mistake.

I disagree with Dukie about the first punch.  When the bully pushes your kid into the wall or locker, it's already started.  By standing there trying to coax the other kid to throw a punch you're sending the wrong signal to the bully.  The signal you want the bully to get is that this crap is going to stop NOW.  Nothing conveys that signal better than an immediate broken nose or a punch to the throat.  And future bullies will get that message too when they hear about it.  They are 13 - no one is going to jail.  Of course I can't tell you that my opinion is the right path to follow.  I would hate it if your kid does what I suggest and things don't go well.  But this is how I would advise my own child, and that is all my opinion is.  Best of luck to your kid.  It sucks the situation he's in.


Dave, I like your current plan.  But in the meantime, it's a good time to learn some basic boxing.

[tango911]

imo the shove is def the first punch.  In fact as soon as someone rears their arm back to punch you,  its time for action.

[Anti-Johnny]

I think some of us are trying to play out some fantasies here. You definitely have the ability to stop this in its tracks without trying to train your kid to be a karate master. The only thing you need to teach him in this case is not to be ashamed to go to a teacher if he is provoked. In Texas, if a child fights back in school he is held just as responsible. You may be proud of your son for standing up physically, but once he is labeled as a trouble maker he wont lose that label easily. Not to mention having that he was suspended on his record. If it escalates too high and he hurts the other kid, criminal charges can be assessed on him.